Need help. I'm wanting to do short action build and want to know best caliber, best action , chassis and basically the whole rig. I have 338 lapua and 6.5x 284 in long action. Would like short action build for my boy that he can shoot with me. Any help would be appreciated.
- Thread starter Mark williams
- Start date
Best for what?
Are you shooting groups at 100 or steel at 1,500? Is there a budget on this project? Do you load or will you need factory ammunition?
You gotta help with some specifics. Asking for the best caliber is like asking for the best car without some details.
Are you shooting groups at 100 or steel at 1,500? Is there a budget on this project? Do you load or will you need factory ammunition?
You gotta help with some specifics. Asking for the best caliber is like asking for the best car without some details.
What he said...
How old is your boy? I would think a 6.5CM, 260, 243, with brakes or even a 223 if not shooting to far out would be great for a younger kid.
223 would get my vote for a young shooter but agree with above need more info.
1000 yd shooting,600yd hunting cartridge, and stay around 3500 hundred on my build not including optics. I don't reload but have a friend that will. Excuse my ignorance for im just a dumbass country boy from the south.
My boy is just 11 . He will be shooting off of bags and out of shooting houses. Has killed deer to 300 yds out of shoot houses. I have long flat prairie land that allows for long range shooting. That's what intrigues me about longrange. Why I joined this site so I can learn myself and be able to help him.
Is there any particular reason you want to go with an short action? 600 yards clean kills is a pretty tall order for a short action with low recoil IMO. In a long action you can get 30-06, 284, or even another 6.5x284 and brake them and will be fairly tame with the right loads.
6.5 Creedmoor is pretty tough to beat IMHO. I think you might be able to use 140gr factory Hornady Amax & live happily ever after. Three different rifles I've been around have shot the 140s VERY well. I've killed deer & hogs out to 640 with mine, & shot it to 900 on rocks & steel
Doesn't have to be short action but thought may be a little better on recoil for him. Weight will not be an issue though as I carry rifle for him to and from until he becomes safety minded on handling guns as he gets older and this will be a special build that he will have when I'm gone from this earth. Want it to be nice.
Will be a rifle that will have range capability as he gets older. For now I wouldn't let him shoot a game animal farther than 300. He will have to improve shooting skills but want capo illite for later
Yowza, a $3,500 budget. I could build two for that the way I go about it. I have no idea how to advise you on action selection, but I'd consider a cartridge using a 6.5 mm Or .243" bullet. Recoil will be mild for the youngster allowing him lots of practice without fatigue.
I'm not a hunter so I can't comment on what's necessary to kill a large animal at 600, but I'll bet it involves more muzzle blast and recoil than an 11yr old will enjoy.
As mentioned, .243, .260 or one of the long action 6.5mm cartridges might be good choices. I'm partial to the .260 myself, but the others have merit.
I'm not a hunter so I can't comment on what's necessary to kill a large animal at 600, but I'll bet it involves more muzzle blast and recoil than an 11yr old will enjoy.
As mentioned, .243, .260 or one of the long action 6.5mm cartridges might be good choices. I'm partial to the .260 myself, but the others have merit.
I think an AI Chassis will get pretty short if all the spacers are removed. Do you know what length of pull he needs?
Edit to add: looks like AICS will get down to 12 1/2" LOP. Stock grip might be too big if his hands are small.
Might also consider the chassis that uses AR grip and butt stock.
http://whalensprecisionshooting.com/store/
Edit to add: looks like AICS will get down to 12 1/2" LOP. Stock grip might be too big if his hands are small.
Might also consider the chassis that uses AR grip and butt stock.
http://whalensprecisionshooting.com/store/
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You could also try viper skins if the thumb hole is too big on the AICS. I thought of the other chassis since it uses AR grips which can be had from teeny to huge.
I think a 30-06 would be a decent choice, or a 6.5x55 swiss or 6.5 Creedmoore. I would be willing to shoot an elk at 600-800 yards with a .260 as long as I am able to get a good shot placement on it. Remington 700 and Winchester Model 70's are my two favorite actions. Surgeon makes the Remmy style actions and Montana makes the Winchester Style actions.
I've never shot a 260, how are they matched up ballistic with 30-06 and what kind of recoil with good brake on it?
I like the 7mm-08. He can shoot 120 grain loads to 300 and move up to 140-160 grains with growth. It has great 7mm ballistics and better terminal performance than 6.5mm's. it is adequate for Elk sized game with accurate shots, easy to load for, long barrel life and great selection of components and factory ammo. Very popular with hunters and the most efficient cartridge "power per grain of powder" out of the 308 family.
260 and 6.5CM can match a 300WM on ballistics with a great deal less recoil. Of coarse you are not launching near as big projectile but they are freaks as far as trajectory and bucking the wind. I can't wait to build one for myself
I have 7-08 in a steyr ultra lite he shoots some and love it. But short barrel and light weight has pretty good recoil and not a stable platform.looking at another caliber I guess just to be different. By the way Mississippi is where my lease is though I live in Tuscaloosa al
A.260 with a brake is going to be a pussy cat.
I looked for good bullets for long range shooting for the 7mm and didn't find anything that came close to 6.5mm. I didn't look long, but I suspect there's a reason you don't see too many long range rigs in 7mm.
You might also look into barrel life. It's my understanding that some of the hotter 6.5's don't fare well compared to .260.
I looked at it from most every angle I could think of and came up with .260 as the clear winner. This was using total cost (including barrels) as one of the criteria. The other really good choice is .243. The bullet selection is smaller, but there are a few really good options. Even less recoil so spotting his own shots will be even easier. The DTAC 115g seems to be a good option for .243.
I looked for good bullets for long range shooting for the 7mm and didn't find anything that came close to 6.5mm. I didn't look long, but I suspect there's a reason you don't see too many long range rigs in 7mm.
You might also look into barrel life. It's my understanding that some of the hotter 6.5's don't fare well compared to .260.
I looked at it from most every angle I could think of and came up with .260 as the clear winner. This was using total cost (including barrels) as one of the criteria. The other really good choice is .243. The bullet selection is smaller, but there are a few really good options. Even less recoil so spotting his own shots will be even easier. The DTAC 115g seems to be a good option for .243.
Thanks Timk,bear, and all the others for their input. I Think with this info I will go with 260. It seems to be the cartridge I'm looking for him. Im heading in the aics direction as well.
I was thinking .243 with a longer barrel, and then you wouldn't have to go with such a heavy chassis system to offset recoil. You could get a McMillan style hunting stock sense it's going to be used for that too. Take my advice for what it's worth as I'm fairly new to long range shooting, but I've hunted all my life (lots of whitetail). You mentioned being from the south, so I'm assuming you're not planning on using this to shoot elk, so .243 works. I"m not sure what game animal in the south he would need to shoot from 600 yards. Most whitetail are shot within 150 yards. Also, take into consideration some advice I was given when looking into my first build. I wanted something that I could take elk hunting in wyoming and also use for long range shooting. Basically, you can't really have it both ways. For $3500 you're either going to get a really bad-ass long range/1000 yard rifle or a really bad-ass hunting rifle that does have the ability to reach out to longer ranges but isn't the "best" long range caliber. If you try to get 1 rifle that does both you're going to end up short-changing yourself on both ends. I know you're wanting to do something really special that will last a lifetime, hence the $3500 price tag. If it were me, I would start with maybe a $2000 hunting rifle that does have some ability at long range shooting, but focused mainly on hunting. In this instance a .243 or .260. Let your son learn on that for a few years and figure out what he likes and doesn't like. He can still take that rifle out to 1000 yards, it's just not optimal. Then after a few years, the two of you go in "together" on a long range build. Over the next 3 years I'm sure your boy could earn at least $1500 - $2000 doing some type of work, mowing yards or working on a ranch/farm (I made about $1000 - $1500 a summer mowing yards at 12, 13, 14). That's 3 yards at $25 per week, so $75 a week for 3 months putting him at $1200. Then you each put in $2000 and get a dedicated long range rifle. If he's 14 years old, he'll be able to handle a long action easier than he could today, and that will open up his options to a plethora of long range catridges.
Edit to Add: I guarantee you, your son will cherish both rifles, especially the one he bought with his dad that he earned.
Edit to Add: I guarantee you, your son will cherish both rifles, especially the one he bought with his dad that he earned.
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Thanks bluto for well written post. One thing I haven't mentioned is I'm part of hunting association that we can hunt about any game animal . Although with that said it will be at least a couple years before he makes trips of that duration with me. That gives me something to think about, thanks.
Ok, here's where I'm at right now. A remy 700 shot action in a 260. Aics , bartlien 26 in barrel, ai bipod, badger rail 20 moa, top it off with nightforce atacr or bender in 25 power. Then send to shirt us for paint job. He is a first class guy by talking with him over phone. How is that sounding so for?
Sounds perfect. My only reservation is if your boy's hands are large enough to use the thumbhole skins. I've only toyed with Viper skins and wasn't paying attention to the grip size, it might be smaller.
Glass is a whole nuther subject, but I love your choices. Can I be your son?
Glass is a whole nuther subject, but I love your choices. Can I be your son?
His fingers are pretty long for age and I think I'll go with viper skins also. Thanks Timk for ur input. I have atacr on my 338 lapua and love it but have not looked thru the bender for comparison. Just only what I've read on the site.
I wouldn't even mess with a brake on a 260. With the weight of the rifle in an AICS he won't have a problem with the recoil.
Uhh...yeah...I think that might work for an 11 year old! The only problem is he'll never be able to go backwards from here. I hope he's a very successful man because he's gonna have to spend lots of money on guns in his future.
You're in the price range to consider just buying an AI AE in 260.
Like others, I am very fond of the .260 Remington for both hunting and LR target shooting. Bluto77 has a very good point about trying to blend a hunting rifle with a target rifle... I ended up with an above average target rifle, and a really accurate but slight cumbersome hunting rifle.
Build Specs:
Rem 700 S/A .260 Rem
XLR Chassis
6-24x50 Vortex PST
I love the weight, adjustability and feel of the XLR chassis. My fiancee has since stolen the rifle and claims it to be hers. The XLR was very easy to adjust to fit her small frame and she never complains about recoil (no brake of any kind). Her first time shooting the rifle she shot a 10 3/4" 5-shot group at 880 yards. As I mentioned, I ended up with a nice target rifle.
We mostly hunt from a blind so the weight of the rifle is not an issue, but the OAL length is hard to manipulate inside of a small blind. On top of that the 6-24 power scope (while nice when shooting at half a mile) is to much magnification at typical hunting ranges (50-200 yards). I have missed several opportunites on hogs as they moved through because I could not get the rifle out the window fast enough and couldnt find the hogs in the reticle set on 6x.
Overall, 260 is a phenominal option for your son as he can shoot it often and comfortably. There are plenty of great 6.5mm bullets for both target shooting and hunting (no limitations there). I simply stress that you may want to decide whether this rifle will be a target rifle or a hunting rifle then go all in! Middle of the road does work and sometimes works really well, but you do have to accept the limitations of the hybrid rig.
No matter what route you take it will be a blast to spend that time together!
-Best of luck to you and your son.
Build Specs:
Rem 700 S/A .260 Rem
XLR Chassis
6-24x50 Vortex PST
I love the weight, adjustability and feel of the XLR chassis. My fiancee has since stolen the rifle and claims it to be hers. The XLR was very easy to adjust to fit her small frame and she never complains about recoil (no brake of any kind). Her first time shooting the rifle she shot a 10 3/4" 5-shot group at 880 yards. As I mentioned, I ended up with a nice target rifle.
We mostly hunt from a blind so the weight of the rifle is not an issue, but the OAL length is hard to manipulate inside of a small blind. On top of that the 6-24 power scope (while nice when shooting at half a mile) is to much magnification at typical hunting ranges (50-200 yards). I have missed several opportunites on hogs as they moved through because I could not get the rifle out the window fast enough and couldnt find the hogs in the reticle set on 6x.
Overall, 260 is a phenominal option for your son as he can shoot it often and comfortably. There are plenty of great 6.5mm bullets for both target shooting and hunting (no limitations there). I simply stress that you may want to decide whether this rifle will be a target rifle or a hunting rifle then go all in! Middle of the road does work and sometimes works really well, but you do have to accept the limitations of the hybrid rig.
No matter what route you take it will be a blast to spend that time together!
-Best of luck to you and your son.
Thanks for the replies from bluto and amg04. I guess I really need to give I a lot of thought before I dive in and I will. I own my own business and need to treat it like a business decision. Maybe I need to be practical. I do and will teach the boy the value of hard work as he will work for me. Whenever I could afford I always want the best. Maybe the best right now is not what he needs now.
I'm going to stay with the 260, remy action, and 26 inch bartlien barrel. Right now not real certain about stock option.
Have two stocks, One for hunting and another for long range games.
Outstanding that's what I'll do. Which hunting stock would u suggest. Can manners make stock for current length of pull. Then get the aics.
I can't help with the hunting stock selection. I did have another thought about spending the kind of money you're considering.
A great rifle eliminates variables for new shooters. When learning on a great rifle, you know that a miss was you, not the gun. I did not start that way and spent two years wondering every time I missed if it was me or my equipment at fault. Now that I'm a more accomplished shooter, I can identify when I'm screwing up or when it's a crappy gun. I never progressed beyond a certain level with my old rifle. I spent lots of time and mental energy chasing variables I couldn't even identify. Once my current rifle was built, my ability grew at a much faster rate. Spend the money knowing your boy will be a superb shot about the time you need a new barrel.
A great rifle eliminates variables for new shooters. When learning on a great rifle, you know that a miss was you, not the gun. I did not start that way and spent two years wondering every time I missed if it was me or my equipment at fault. Now that I'm a more accomplished shooter, I can identify when I'm screwing up or when it's a crappy gun. I never progressed beyond a certain level with my old rifle. I spent lots of time and mental energy chasing variables I couldn't even identify. Once my current rifle was built, my ability grew at a much faster rate. Spend the money knowing your boy will be a superb shot about the time you need a new barrel.
That's kind of what I was thinking as well. Thank u Timk for all ur time and input to this thread. I'm going to go ahead with 2 stocks and build best that I can of both worlds.
Ok . Here's the build I will do. Remy short action in 260 cal, badger 20 moa rail, get McMillan hunter stock and aics for later. Bartlien barell 26 inch in 1to8 twist. I will top it off with nightforce rings and atacr scope. Will get a Harris bipod. No paint job for now. I will have his name ingraved and the letters tsn standing for thanks snipers hide. I want to thank everybody that replied to this thread for it came up with what I think will be great for him. May god bless u all.
I wish I was your son 
even though I have more than enough guns and I'm a kid. Also if you want the best action you may want to go with a defiance machine action since they have fast shipping and have same quality of surgeon actions.
even though I have more than enough guns and I'm a kid. Also if you want the best action you may want to go with a defiance machine action since they have fast shipping and have same quality of surgeon actions.
