So, I caught myself flinching in October before the snow began to fly. I haven't been able to get rid of it. I found that when the firing pin drops I blink, very fast, out of reaction to the sound (I think) as it happens even when dry firing. I find it only happens when I'm very relaxed and shooting during my natural respiratory pause, if I'm more aggressive it doesn't happen. Anyone had anything similar or have some ideas on how to correct it? On a good day I shoot just under 1 MOA blinking or not. Thanks.
- Thread starter NorthWinds
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- correcting flinch
I'm no expert, but I'd say really focus on the follow-through on the shot.
For pistol I
1. Double hearing protection
2. Dry Fire
3. Shoot lots of .22
4. Ball and Dummy Training - If your rifle will allow it have someone load some action proving dummy rounds in your mag so you do not know where they are. Fire the mag. When you pull the trigger on a dummy round you will get instant feedback of what your subconcious is doing as you fire. Knowing the problem will be more than half the battle to fix the problem. Condition your brain to expect that every time you will pull the trigger there is a dummy round in the chamber.
1. Double hearing protection
2. Dry Fire
3. Shoot lots of .22
4. Ball and Dummy Training - If your rifle will allow it have someone load some action proving dummy rounds in your mag so you do not know where they are. Fire the mag. When you pull the trigger on a dummy round you will get instant feedback of what your subconcious is doing as you fire. Knowing the problem will be more than half the battle to fix the problem. Condition your brain to expect that every time you will pull the trigger there is a dummy round in the chamber.
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Concentrate on maintaining aim until recoil has ceased. If you have one, practice with a low recoil, low noise .22LR rifle which has a peep sight, focusing on the front sight as you pull the trigger smoothly and follow through. This practice will provide your brain with a new set of instructions for involuntary reaction appropriate for your action. Right now, your brain is using instructions it was given earlier which were deemed to be the correct involuntary response from a violet experience believed to be a threat to your eye sight.
Here's your answer, right here.
I've got a .22 and I've never flinched with it. It's ONLY with my scopes rifles, ONLY when I shoot target, and still present with dummy rounds/dry firing. But I'll keep working at it with the dummy rounds. I have a practically no-recoil .223 I can use. I think it's because I had a 7mm scope me and almost break my nose as a young teen... I'll give that a shot though for sure, thanks guys.
Have someone else load the dummies mixed with real. Though, you say you have it dry firing. Put a dime on the end of your barrel and dry fire allot.
In addition to BOTH plugs and muffs, you're going to need to unlearn the flinch. That means dry-firing, and a lot of it. Don't do it for a single half hour, but rather 5 minutes each day, for many days.
Next, part of your flinch may come from BOTH your body's response from the noise, the concussion and the recoil shock. Work on all three.
Noise: Double plugs and muffs.
Concussion: Try a small plastic mouth guard, holding your teeth against it while you shoot. No open mouth. Wear a hat, one capable of "taking" some concussion away from your cranius maximus.
Recoil: Mount the rifle into your shoulder, and with your trigger hand, PULL the rifle back into your shoulder until you've compressed your clothing, your fat, your muscle, all the way down to bone. Compress it all. That does not mean a "White-knuckle-death-grip", but certainly enough force to complete the compression. Experiment with this, and you'll understand that this method will totally change the dynamics of recoil.
Next, part of your flinch may come from BOTH your body's response from the noise, the concussion and the recoil shock. Work on all three.
Noise: Double plugs and muffs.
Concussion: Try a small plastic mouth guard, holding your teeth against it while you shoot. No open mouth. Wear a hat, one capable of "taking" some concussion away from your cranius maximus.
Recoil: Mount the rifle into your shoulder, and with your trigger hand, PULL the rifle back into your shoulder until you've compressed your clothing, your fat, your muscle, all the way down to bone. Compress it all. That does not mean a "White-knuckle-death-grip", but certainly enough force to complete the compression. Experiment with this, and you'll understand that this method will totally change the dynamics of recoil.
Some people are good at placing things " mind over matter". Others it takes a lot of practice. I cured mine years ago by precision shooting of handguns in metalic silhouettes. In that game it requires absolute perfect execution of your shot. anyone who can deliver accurate shots with a pistol can shoot very well with a rifle. As stated above, have someone load a revolver for you mixing fired cases with loaded rounds so you will not know witch chamber is "hot". This will immediately show your flinch, and to some degree imbarrass you into STOP DOING IT. again, mind over matter. It's sort of like ignoring pain when trying to do something difficult. It does take practice, but you really feel good about yourself when you finally master it. In precision shooting when you know when the shot will break you probably pulled it. every shot should be a surprise to you by just increasing pressure on the trigger. You flinch because you MADE it go off. Good luck!
More dry fire needed
Thanks guys. Great reply Johnson I probably wasn't holding the rifle tight enough. I've started doing some dry fire again and I've found with earplugs in I don't flinch. I probably look retarded dry firing with earplugs in, but it seems to work. I'll try pulling the rifle tighter into my shoulder as well. Hopefully be able to fix it before my first day at the range in about a month when all the snow is gone.
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We are missing the one major problem. All the above is good practice. But the "root" of the problem is anticipation of the shot break. When, for instance, somone is aiming at a target, let's say for 10 seconds. It's inconceivable to think that they are quivering and jerking for the entire 10 seconds. they are totally calm until the instant they want the gun to fire, it's this exact instance that they flinch!! not the whole time of aiming. WHY?? because they knew the gun was going to fire! If you know when the gun is going to fire, you've already screwed up. period, end of sentence. The timing of Every shot must be unknown to the shooter or he will anticipate it and miss!! HENCE, STEADY EVEN PRESSURE ON THE TRIGGER UNTIL IT RELEASES THE SEAR ON IT'S OWN. LET the gun fire, don't MAKE the gun fire. The only time this isn't applicable is if 20 bad guys are rushing you in close quarter battle and you're trying to save your ass!!
Well gents after a few days ib the line at this basic LE Sniper school, it was pointed out to me that I'm flinching some. I know I was when I wasn't o the gun. Always have. I personally didn't notice it until after on of my team mates pointed it out today! Anyhow I slowed myself down and realized I didn't have my stock sucked back in to my shoulder pocket all the way and a little more towards the collar bone. Made a move there and it fixed that. I guess subconsciously I wasn't thinking about it and it was banging on my collar bone for a 5 shot group. Had about 5" group at 300yds. Then I get that squared away and print a very lethal 5 shot group at 300yds that measured just undr 2" center to cent
er of longest spread of bullets. Needless to say I was tickled with a 2/3rd moa group! I did shoot a 5/8" group of 3 at 200yds, but then botched the last 2 shots to ruin and out stand 1/3" moa group! Story of my life. New rifle, which I'm sure helped tremendously as it's a tac op xray51 topped with an S&B optic! I tell the other guys that this only goes to show that the highest dollar rifle on the line is worthless without the driver having and using the fundamentals of marksmanship! This equipment has made me look much better than I truly am in my opinion. Tomorrow we shall see what 600yds looks and feels like. Mostly in 20+ full value wind!
Any ideas on the riflle (22") barrel, Remington premier match 168gr ammo? I'm pretty sure I got it lined out as far as equipment goes and as far as mental game goes. Anybody know what fhe muzzle velocity is on a 22" barrel with this ammo? I need an actual chrono number as Remington show 2680, but doesn't say what barrel length!
Thanks
Sorry for fhe small hijacking!
er of longest spread of bullets. Needless to say I was tickled with a 2/3rd moa group! I did shoot a 5/8" group of 3 at 200yds, but then botched the last 2 shots to ruin and out stand 1/3" moa group! Story of my life. New rifle, which I'm sure helped tremendously as it's a tac op xray51 topped with an S&B optic! I tell the other guys that this only goes to show that the highest dollar rifle on the line is worthless without the driver having and using the fundamentals of marksmanship! This equipment has made me look much better than I truly am in my opinion. Tomorrow we shall see what 600yds looks and feels like. Mostly in 20+ full value wind!
Any ideas on the riflle (22") barrel, Remington premier match 168gr ammo? I'm pretty sure I got it lined out as far as equipment goes and as far as mental game goes. Anybody know what fhe muzzle velocity is on a 22" barrel with this ammo? I need an actual chrono number as Remington show 2680, but doesn't say what barrel length!
Thanks
Sorry for fhe small hijacking!
Jason, you'er close in your estimate on vel. I have a Rem. ltr, 20" and mine does 2625 with the same ammo. So you are right in that range and probably a tad bit more.
Spot on 40xs with your explanation and learning precision shooting with handguns. Learn to shoot a pistol well and transferring that trigger/grip control over to rifles makes it a LOT easier. In various posts I've made nearly the same comments about shooters anticipating the shot, I've always said I want to be surprised except for offhand shooting when it needs to go off at a specific time/spot and even then it's a very controlled fast squeeze with no variations placed against the gun.
Most of us all shot guns when we were young with no hearing protection and no proper training and nearly all developed a flinch due to either muzzle blast or the unnatural act of something slamming back against you. It is very hard to get rid of it once you develop it but when taught correctly from the start it's relatively easy to not develop it.
I still have to concentrate solely on wanting to see the bullet impact the target and keep applying slight pressure till it surprises me and even then allow the gun to move and settle back down. Other say to control it and not let it control you, maybe there is a mutual blending of both but I've found for the type of shooting we do at the LR matches less is better for precision when fast backup shots aren't nearly as important as hits on really small targets at the extended distances.
I learned so much from shooting IHMSA, you have to learn proper control to hit the targets and after extending the distances nearly 5 times and way smaller targets I've had to refine the process even more. Some pick right up on doing it correctly and others have to work a bit more but shooting with a seasoned higher level shooter will shave the learning process a lot. Hard for guys to admit they need some help but a few quality range sessions with a good shooter is time well spent.
Topstrap
Most of us all shot guns when we were young with no hearing protection and no proper training and nearly all developed a flinch due to either muzzle blast or the unnatural act of something slamming back against you. It is very hard to get rid of it once you develop it but when taught correctly from the start it's relatively easy to not develop it.
I still have to concentrate solely on wanting to see the bullet impact the target and keep applying slight pressure till it surprises me and even then allow the gun to move and settle back down. Other say to control it and not let it control you, maybe there is a mutual blending of both but I've found for the type of shooting we do at the LR matches less is better for precision when fast backup shots aren't nearly as important as hits on really small targets at the extended distances.
I learned so much from shooting IHMSA, you have to learn proper control to hit the targets and after extending the distances nearly 5 times and way smaller targets I've had to refine the process even more. Some pick right up on doing it correctly and others have to work a bit more but shooting with a seasoned higher level shooter will shave the learning process a lot. Hard for guys to admit they need some help but a few quality range sessions with a good shooter is time well spent.
Topstrap
Have to admit, I suspect flinching is a bit like being an alcoholic. They say that once sober, an individual is still an alcoholic for life, and that they constantly have to be aware of this and fight against it. Flinching ISN"T something you can just "get rid of" and then never have to worry about again. You may conquer it once, but it's always ready and waiting to come back if you give it a chance. Takes a lot of work at keeping it away. That's exactly why Ball and Dummy is so valuable, even for very experienced shooters. I agree with the cross-training aspect, too, but it needs to be done with some serious discretion. I've heard shooters say that anything that involves pulling a trigger will help, all the way around with other shooting sports. To put it delicately, that's bullshit. Some disciplines are beneficial to one another, others are neutral and some are even antagonistic. Shotguns are a great example. I shoot rifles and some pistol competitively, and I won't go NEAR a shotgun. Trap or skeet, they promote things that are completely backwards to what's needed for rifle or pistol. You focus on the target, not the sights. You slap the trigger, instead of a controlled squeeze. There's some others as well, but everything you do with them works against your rifle or pistol training, and that's really bad news. Shooting rifles won't help with your pistol shooting, and may even hurt it. Going the other way around, bullseye pistol is a HUGE asset to a rifle shooter. Trigger control and front sight focus are far, far more critical to the pistol shooter, and that carries over into your rifle shooting. You learn to control your trigger with a 1911 in your rapid fire strings, and rifles just become downright easy. USPSA shooting is another matter. You can pick up some insanely bad habits in that game, and still get away with it completely . . . until you switch back to another discipline, and then it hurts you, big time. So pay attention to what effects one sport has on the other, and don't assume that they'll all serve to benefit your overall shooting. It won't.
Spend some time playing the Ball and Dummy games, and do some offhand work. There's no other position where a flinch will be more pronounced, and show up on paper faster. You get a good trigger break down when shooting offhand, and the rest is pure gravy.
Spend some time playing the Ball and Dummy games, and do some offhand work. There's no other position where a flinch will be more pronounced, and show up on paper faster. You get a good trigger break down when shooting offhand, and the rest is pure gravy.
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Dry fire at home.
Dry fire some more.
Dry fire once you are at the range and set up; but dry fire your first 10 rounds before shooting any live ammo.
Check your progress with dummy rounds as stated above.
Dry fire some more.
Dry fire once you are at the range and set up; but dry fire your first 10 rounds before shooting any live ammo.
Check your progress with dummy rounds as stated above.
Dry firing is the best way. Just like everybody mentioned. 10-15 min a day EVERY day. over a period of months it will get better. Muscle memory is what I think they call it. Best of luck. Bruce
Does someone mind explaining why the rifle should surprise you? I mean I've always been taught this and I remember the USMC Sniper manual saying something along the lines of if you know the rifle will fire you will tense your shoulder and move your POA. However I've noticed that if I take ONE good breath and fire in my NRP I don't blink, but if I go through a full breath cycle, drop my heart rate to about 45-50 BPM, and let the rifle surprise me, I blink when the hammer drops, dry fire or not. It just strikes me as a natural reaction, like if someone throws their hand at your face, and it startles you. But then again I'm a noob to this sort of thing. Thanks for the advice and patience guys I really appreciate it.
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Surprise or surprise break is a description which is supposed to support an understanding for how to properly execute the second firing task, which is to fire the rifle without moving it. Contemporary marksmanship doctrine promoted by the USAMU tells the shooter to fire the rifle without moving it, utilizing SMOOTH trigger control. Smooth, it seems, better describes the action the shooter needs to take to get the desired result than previously used descriptions, like surprise break. Your question about the matter, demonstrates it.
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Thanks Sterling, so I shouldn't worry about it too much if I can dry fire with a coin on the barrel without it dropping?
Northwinds, there is a difference of knowing that you are dry firing verses live fire that makes you more comfortable. Just three weeks ago I was coaching a friend on pistol craft. He was obviously flinching due to not knowing which chamber of my revolver was "hot" or a dead case. He had a glock that he was trying to get proficient with. He was fairly familiar with it's trigger. I let him shoot my 1911, and not "knowing" it's trigger, he centered the bullseye. case in point, he had a good sight picture as the 1911 fired and not knowing the trigger helped him center the target. Had he "known" the trigger he subconsciously would have wanted to anticipate the shot and would have missed the bullseye. In other words the gun fired while he was holding a perfect sight picture and he didn't have time to jerk the trigger. Does this better explain " let" the gun fire rather than "make" the gun fire??? Again, steady, even pressure on the trigger.
Can over training be an issue?
Ive been fighting a flinch for a while and have made strides using the ball and dummy technique but I wasnt happy with the way things were going. I was shooting 4-5 times a week (50 rounds per session) - at least one session with my primary pistol (.45 ACP) than some more practice with .22 and low power .38 wadcutters.
I bought two new rifles over the winter and with the better weather I have been neglecting my pistols. For a good three weeks I shot no pistol and only did daily dry fire prior to holstering. This week I went to the range with my .45 and chewed up the black rings. It was one of my best sessions in a long while.
Im thinking maybe a short break was helpful.
Ive been fighting a flinch for a while and have made strides using the ball and dummy technique but I wasnt happy with the way things were going. I was shooting 4-5 times a week (50 rounds per session) - at least one session with my primary pistol (.45 ACP) than some more practice with .22 and low power .38 wadcutters.
I bought two new rifles over the winter and with the better weather I have been neglecting my pistols. For a good three weeks I shot no pistol and only did daily dry fire prior to holstering. This week I went to the range with my .45 and chewed up the black rings. It was one of my best sessions in a long while.
Im thinking maybe a short break was helpful.
I unfortunately don't own a pistol at this point and can't get range time for probably around another month. I've just never heard of anyone flinching while dry firing before. Something one of my uncles said was "Take your .223, double up hearing protection, shoot pop cans at like 100 yards and watch them fly. Nothing intense, nothing challenging, just relax and enjoy an afternoon of shooting with no stress."
You can definitely work in flinches from extended shooting sessions, happens all the time. No one truly has no flinch - there's always some, it's just a matter of how much is there at any given time. Up to you to police it.
It's been said before, and I agree - the ball and dummy drill. Probably the most helpful anti-flinch drill known to man. If you're still getting bad accuracy, and it's not a flinch:
- check your sights by having someone else shoot your gun
- check your grip, make sure you're not overgripping/heeling.
If it's a rifle, you should be able to work it out with dry fire. Or, try doing a ball-and-dummy type drill with your rifle.
All,
The ball and dummy drill is an aid to discovery of a problem. It is not a solution to the problem; and, focus on the problem is not the answer. The solution is to focus on the second principle of shooting, to fire the rifle without moving it, utilizing smooth trigger control. When the shooter concentrates on this task, that's to say, what is needed for a good hit, rather than not to flinch, the brain will comply and anticipation of injury will be replaced with anticipation for a good hit. It does not take years, months, weeks, or days to cure the flinch. It only takes a few minutes of dry firing, with concentration on calling the shot. When follow through is mastered as evidenced by being able to call the shot, from having focused on the task, the shooter can progress with a low recoil, low noise rifle until the brain understands the recoil and noise of the rifle will not cause injury.
The ball and dummy drill is an aid to discovery of a problem. It is not a solution to the problem; and, focus on the problem is not the answer. The solution is to focus on the second principle of shooting, to fire the rifle without moving it, utilizing smooth trigger control. When the shooter concentrates on this task, that's to say, what is needed for a good hit, rather than not to flinch, the brain will comply and anticipation of injury will be replaced with anticipation for a good hit. It does not take years, months, weeks, or days to cure the flinch. It only takes a few minutes of dry firing, with concentration on calling the shot. When follow through is mastered as evidenced by being able to call the shot, from having focused on the task, the shooter can progress with a low recoil, low noise rifle until the brain understands the recoil and noise of the rifle will not cause injury.
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Doesn't anybody do dime drills anymore? While in the prone or rested position balance a dime on the barrel. Dry fire and focus on not letting the dime fall off the barrel. If you are flinching the dime will fall off. This gets your mind focused on a task other than shooting so you can overcome a bad habit without thinking about it.
I can actually keep a dime on the rifle, even when I flinch. It falls off when I try to manipulate the bolt. Even flinching I can still get sub MOA 3 shot groups on a good day (I actually was blinking so fast I had to film myself to catch it because I didn't think I was. 
I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is the same thing my uncle was getting at when he said shoot reactive targets and relax. I've got snap caps and I'm going to try and get someone to go with me to do the ball and dummy drill. Until then I'll keep practicing with a dime on the barrel and earplugs in (I STILL feel like he special kid, dry firing with EarPro, but oh well). Thanks again for all the advice
Absent recoil, which may mask effective follow through, dry firing permits the shooter to call the shot when having properly followed through. Focus should be on the sight. When the shooter follows through while focused on the sight he will understand where the barrel was pointed when the shot broke. From any call other than right-in-there the shooter will know that trigger control was not smooth, or the position was not steady; thus, he does not need a dime at the end of the barrel to understand a correction to trigger control or better support is necessary.
Being able to call the shot is an aid to shooter/target analysis. The dime on the barrel balancing act is a distraction to the shooter, as the ability to balance a dime is not an indicator for whether or not the shooter has a grasp for properly pointing the rifle with consistent sight alignment, or is firing the rifle without moving it utilizing smooth trigger control. Instead of playing with coins the coach should be asking the shooter, "how did that shot look".
At any rate, the big picture here is to understand that follow through, concentration on aiming until the bullet has cleared the bore, will prevent the brain from abandoning aim for something else like flinching.
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Sterling's perfectly correct here. While the various dry firing drills can be a help, the real test in follow through is in the actual shooting. I suggest something that will really put it to the test; actual firing. If you're trying to deal with or eliminate a flinch, go to something that will really show it, one way or the other; rimfires or air guns. While many shooters won't believe this, yes, you can drastically screw up a shot AFTER the firing pin falls, and even after the bullet is on its way. The time between ignition and the bullet exiting the muzzle is known as barrel time. While we're talking about a very small space here, you can undo everything you did to build a good position, break a clean, well centered aimed shot by simply relaxing a bit (or flinching) between the time the bullet starts moving and actually leaves the bore. The way to get around this is to use something that exacerbates the problem, which is precisely what rimfires and air guns do. A 22 rimfire has about three times as much barrel time as a 223 in the same length barrel. The air gun, even more. Using either of these, your ability to remain on target, locked into position after firing the shot (in other words, follow through) is far more difficult than with virtually any centerfire. Train with these, and you'll be amazed at how much closer to call your shots will be when you switch back to the centerfire.
This explains why I can shoot relatively small groups without any kind of real training. I've put a LOT of rounds through a .22. I never flinch with it and it's only got irons on it, but I can group about the size of a quarter at 30 yards offhand. Thank you all very much for the answers, I'll be sure to focus on the reticle not the target (something I just learned actually) and watch my shot, which should be good enough to fix this.
I cured my flinch through lots, I mean lots of dry firing. I do however anticipate the shot in my mind which results in a very slow squeeze. If I speed up my trigger pull to achieve more of a compressed surprise break I end up "snatching" the trigger.
People use hypnosis for everything from weight loss to smoking cessation - has anybody explored hypnosis to help with shooting technique? Specifically, I would like to train my mind to not get distracted and think about the shot going off.
People use hypnosis for everything from weight loss to smoking cessation - has anybody explored hypnosis to help with shooting technique? Specifically, I would like to train my mind to not get distracted and think about the shot going off.
Guys, I realize that phobias are hard to deal with and involuntary muscles react on their own, so at the risk of sounding too cavalier and coarse, RECOIL AND REPORT are only words in the dictionary. They can't hurt you while wearing you protective equipment. the execution of your shot should be the primary focus, everything else is either non essential of secondary. Just do it! It's sort of like calling someone out when you know you'er probably going to get your ass kicked but you do it anyway because you are tired of being verbally abused. Cowboy up! Get in your bubble! Remove everything else from your mind. Several years ago I had a gunsmith chamber a ten inch contender barrel from .44 mag. to 444mag. Imagine! the smith kept stating that he was not going to be responsible for injury. lol. I couldn't wait to get the thing and shoot it. I knew it was going to hurt like hell. IT DID!! I wanted to prove that I could still hit with it as I was planning a bear hunt with it. I shoot it just like my .22's. Call me a masochist, whatever, but you get my point. " gitter done" mind over matter, just do it!! That which doesn't kill you just makes you better.
As the others have said - dry fire & .22 have helped me
I have a Remington Sendero .300 win mag that I was having the same problem with. It kicked like a mule and even with a bag of lead on top of it, I would flinch. Put a muzzle break on it and now the problem is solved.
Lots of good advice here. The way I get the flinch out is to get behind the rifle, get into position and close my eyes and practice squeezing the trigger and NRP (dry firing). Then, hold your head up and start dry firing with both eyes open while I continue to practice the NRP and squeeze. I progress several times like this until I get to where I can dry fire with both eyes open looking thru the scope. The trigger fall should surprise you every time.
Be certain your hearing protection is effective, pull the rifle deliberately into the shoulder pocket, then concentrate on keeping the eye open and seeing the target move behind the sights at the time of the report as you gradually/progressively/steadily/mechnically bring the triggerfinger through the full range of trigger travel.
Ride 'em, Cowboy!
BTW, keeping they eye open during the recoil cycle is unnatural and generally not possible, but we try to, anyway.
Also, my 110lb Granddaughter is having issues with shooting the Mosin-Nagant 91/30, and I get it; they were not made for each other. There is a Limbsaver slip-on mounted, a foam cheek riser, and I am collet pulling the surplus light ball bullets and replacing them with 123gr bullets from TulAmmo 7.62x39 and a reduced charge. This way, I can incrementally augment the charge/bullet weights over time.
Her basic centerfire trainer is a Savage 10FCM Scout with a Tasco 6-24x42 MilDot Varmint/Target scope in a replacement conventional base and rings. Chambered in 7.62x39 it shoots 110gr V-Max handloads flat, reasonably accurately, and is easy going on the shooter. It is perfectly proportioned, balanced, and weighted for her smaller frame.
Greg
Ride 'em, Cowboy!
BTW, keeping they eye open during the recoil cycle is unnatural and generally not possible, but we try to, anyway.
Also, my 110lb Granddaughter is having issues with shooting the Mosin-Nagant 91/30, and I get it; they were not made for each other. There is a Limbsaver slip-on mounted, a foam cheek riser, and I am collet pulling the surplus light ball bullets and replacing them with 123gr bullets from TulAmmo 7.62x39 and a reduced charge. This way, I can incrementally augment the charge/bullet weights over time.
Her basic centerfire trainer is a Savage 10FCM Scout with a Tasco 6-24x42 MilDot Varmint/Target scope in a replacement conventional base and rings. Chambered in 7.62x39 it shoots 110gr V-Max handloads flat, reasonably accurately, and is easy going on the shooter. It is perfectly proportioned, balanced, and weighted for her smaller frame.
Greg
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