Night Vision TNV/PVS14 Comparisons; Gen3 Pinnacle, Gen3 Pinnacle Milspec, Gen3 Omni VIII

[TheGerman]

Finally getting into looking at a Gen3 monocle but after reading through some of the specs I am trying to figure out what the best one for my needs would be.

The simplest thing to start with is the Gen 3 Pinnacle vs the Gen 3 Pinnacle MILSPEC; besides the MILSPEC being assembled by someone other than TNVC to allow it to be called MLSPEC, is there any difference? Does it make a difference or are the non-milspec Gen3 Pinnacles put out by TNVC just as reliable/clear/sturdy as the MILSPEC? Wanted to see if this was one of those times where tossing a little extra money got you alot more, or if it didn't make a difference.

Secondly, what is the difference between the Gen 3 Pinnacles and the Omni VIII? I know the Omni is L3 and the Pinnacle is ITT; is there any difference as far as the quality/resolution/etc? Everything on the TNVC site is identical for the Omni as it is for the non-milspec Pinnacle.

Compare the specifications, besides the manufacturer they are identical:

TNV/PVS-14 ITT Gen3 PINNACLE ? Tactical Night Vision Company

TNV/PVS-14 L3 Gen3 OMNI VIII ? Tactical Night Vision Company


The ONLY thing I can find that is different is that the Omni is rated for 5.56, 6.8 and 7.62 while the Pinnacle is 5.56 only due to the thinner film. So is this as simple as, Omni = not as great illumination yet a sturdier build for larger recoil and Pinnacle = better illumination yet not as sturdy build as its max is 5.56 recoil?


My purpose for getting a monocle was to have the ability to put it on the J Arm and use it on my helmet while hunting at night as well as just having NV capability. I love the weapon mounting option as well. I see that they are primarily showing Aimpoints in use with the monocles; I have a NV capable EoTech - will it work and line up just as well?

 

[shooter6.5]

I will leave all the technical stuff to those that speak that language.

From a use side=the PVS-14 will work very well with your eo tech, as long as it is NV capable. I have mine set up with a D-Lock, and it is very easily put on or taken off the weapon.

I also have an aimpoint and it works well there also. The eo tech has a lower presence on the rail, and I like that. You can put the D-lock on your 14 and have the jarm on at the same time if you choose and it works. It is a bit much, but it does work.

 

[MODArmory – Nicole]

Be prepared for toe stepping..

First, milspec is a loose term in the industry. The qualification of “milspec” is not determined by who assembles the unit. Mil-spec is more of a marketing term than anything based in reality. The image intensifier is the part that is referred to as “milspec: As an example the L-3 OMNI 8 is a CURRENT milspec tube. However, there are companies in the industry selling ITT OMNI 6 and DTG-2 tubes and in the advertising it states “mil spec”. It is true that OMNI 6 tubes are“mil spec” from several years ago. ITT sells OMNI-7 :MIL-SPEC” tubes but they are significantly higher priced than any other tubes.

Second, all Pinnacle and L-3 OMNI systems have a difference in quality, resolution and specifications. Specifications vary from tube to tube. Depending on how ANY company conducts business they can order units to a certain specification. There are a variety of terms that ANY company uses for different tiers even under the name Pinnacle or OMNI. Does the company state the specifications of Resolution (lp/mm), signal to noise or screen quality? There are generation 3 ITT Pinnacle systems that have a Resolution (lp/mm) of 57 and then with Signal to Noise a Generation 3 system can range for 16-32. In addition you can have a high performance intensifier tube but the tube can have spots, chicken wire and other screen defects. ITT and L-3 do rate screen defects differently. Typically we notice the ITT has fewer screen defects.


The Eotech (with NV capability) works great with your PVS-14. The reticle is crisper than during the day time and you tend to have a faster target acquisition than with an Aimpoint. However the Aimpoint is a great optic as well.

True some companies rate the Omni 8 system for higher caliber use, however it’s important to note that L-3 does NOT rate these for a higher caliber use. The only tube rated from the manufacturer for .308 caliber recoil is the ICT Lab’s RC tube.

 

[TheGerman]

That's cool.

I was going by TNVC's site and links I listed above that had the same specs for both the L3 and ITT tube which was confusing as the only listed difference I could see were what calibers they said the tube was rated for. That doesn't bother me as much as I would only have it mounted on something in 5.56 or 5.45; 308 is why God created clip on night sites.

The spots, smears and chicken wire is common for NV (at least the ones I've seen) so that wasn't really a big concern unless it affected performance. Glad the EoTech works, was worried since I saw mainly Aimpoints that the EoTech didn't line up correctly.

Thanks

 

[clasky]

Here is a good resource for you to check out that explains the difference between the different PVS-14's.

http://tnvc.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/PVS14_Buyer_Guide_032713.pdf

MILSPEC is not at all a loose term in the industry. It is just sometimes used incorrectly. There is only one MILSPEC PVS-14 and that is the AN/PVS-14 manufactured by ITT Exelis. ITT is the contract-holder for the standard issue AN/PVS-14. Whenever you see AN/ in front of something, it refers to "Army Navy" and is representing a MILSPEC system. MILSPEC is actually a very tight term used to describe a device. In the case of a PVS-14, it must use a MILSPEC-qualified tube, housing, lenses, etc. It must be built in an ISO9001-certified facility that is authorized by the United States government to produce a fully-MILSPEC device. It must leave the factory having passed the MILSPEC qualification testing for an entire system. These systems are not available to anyone except the US Government unless there is a contract cancellation or defunding. In that case, permission is granted by the State Dept. to move them commercially. A fully-MILSPEC system that was built at OMNI VI is still a fully-MILSPEC system. It's just not current (OMNI VIII). Now that we have that information, let's address systems built with MILSPEC parts.

Some companies (including TNVC) offer systems that are built using MILSPEC parts. This does not make them MILSPEC systems. The tubes may be MILSPEC, the housing and lenses may be MILSPEC. But, unless the system is assembled and leaves the factory as a complete unit, it is not a MILSPEC system.

As for the question about the differences between the tubes, the current production L3 and ITT tubes are very similar in performance. Current manufacturing methods from each company allow tubes be made so that they are both putting out bright images with high resolution that are almost identical to most users. They just achieve this in different ways. L3's method allows them to use a thicker film that will withstand 6.8 and 300 Blackout when weapon-mounted. But, you want to use the goggle on your head 99% of the time anyway, so I don't see the weapon shock rating being a huge determining factor.

 

[TheGerman]

Thanks man, that guide is what I was looking for.

The weapon rating was just something I mentioned because if you read the specs for the L3 and ITT on your site, the specs are the same even though I am smart enough to know no 2 tubes are identical. The rating just set them apart in the descriptions and wanted to see if they really were THAT close together. The only weapon mounted NV I have is a clip on and that obviously stays on the weapon; the monocle I planned to use on my helmet most of the time but I did like the option to mount it on my AR if I wanted.

Thanks for the info.

 

[clasky]

In reality, both L3 and ITT tubes used in our systems are going to be the same minimum spec because that is what we require in our minimum spec from the manufacturers. We include this in the PO's we submit so they know that we will only accept delivery of that minimum spec. Tubes may be higher spec than that, but they will not be lower. So in essence, the tube spec is going to be "the same" regardless of manufacturer (at least for what we produce. Other distributors will have their own spec).

You are correct in that no two tubes will ever be the same. But, their are certain standard tube "types." While L3 and ITT have their own nomenclature to describe these tubes, they are going to be interchangeable because both companies are going to produce tubes that can be used in standard devices.

Our goal in the TNV/PVS-14 line is to give the customer options while guaranteeing they will get a very high quality system with a very high minimum spec. If you want ITT PINNACLE or L3 Infinity OMNI VIII, we will provide it and you will will have a guaranteed high minimum spec that is the same across the board. The tubes have slightly different characteristics, but you will always have the same minimum high performance.

 

[James Mark]

Hi, Camille!

I do got a problem with both ITT PINNACLE & L-3 OMNI VIII, what if I dun mount it onto any weapon rifle, just use it as normal like, using for looking at the deep wools & in the dark cave, so which is the best to use for, ITT PINNACLE or the L-3 OMNI VIII? thanks.

 

[MODArmory – Nicole]

James,

What matters most is the signal to noise ratio on your tube specification sheet for wanting your system to still perform in near dark conditions. Night vision does need some light to perform. Our night vision devices will have a minimum signal to noise ratio of 24. Over the weekend we were out in nowhere (Bennett), Colorado. NO ambient light, no moon, no stars... it was snowing. Customers did not have a problem seeing to the end of the berm (that maybe spelled incorrectly) and hitting the targets. When ordering your night vision make sure the manufacturer promises a certain level of performance. Typically we have heard that customers like the looks of the L3 systems in the field but I'm just passing along opinions now.
L3 OMNI 8's are in stock currently.

Hi, Camille!

I do got a problem with both ITT PINNACLE & L-3 OMNI VIII, what if I dun mount it onto any weapon rifle, just use it as normal like, using for looking at the deep wools & in the dark cave, so which is the best to use for, ITT PINNACLE or the L-3 OMNI VIII? thanks.

 

[James Mark]

Thanks! Camille,

One last question, for your own point of view, which one were u choose for?, if u were the one who is right now using PVS-14, to see inside the deep wools & in the dark cave, how would u manage to handle it, through your years of experience of handling of night vision stuff, thanks.

 

[MODArmory – Nicole]

Well since I know that the L3 unit is rated to 6.8 SPC and 300 black out versus the ITT Pinnacle is only 5.56... I guess I will go public on the internet and say L3 OMNI 8. That was if the specifications matched directly. I'd be asking for specifications first and foremost. I may have to start handing out PVS-14's to people during a demonstration and find out which unit they like the best and keep a tally on which one is an L3 versus an ITT. I know you would not be disappointed in either option.
Really I'd pick the ICT PVS-14RC .308 weapon rated but that wasn't in the question

Thanks! Camille,

One last question, for your own point of view, which one were u choose for?, if u were the one who is right now using PVS-14, to see inside the deep wools & in the dark cave, how would u manage to handle it, through your years of experience of handling of night vision stuff, thanks.

 

[GBMaryland]

You've got two good sets of information...

I can tell you that I've had L3 and ITT Pinnicle OMNI-VII spec tubes (made during the time of the military contact for the OMNI-VII specs)... and they worked quite well. The specs for the OMNI-VIII tubes are actually lower than the prior contract. So you want to pay attention to what the vendor tells you about the tube in a perspective PVS-14 you would be purchasing. (You can also tell then you want a tube with 72lpmm in the outer zone and a 30 s/n ratio... but it could get expensive...)

I will state that my ITT PVS-14 does better in very low light... but, again, that's an older tube for 4 years ago. At this point, manufacturers may be doing a better job with production.

If you'd like more in-depth info on tubes, etc... this post is still valid even of the pictures are missing:

Night Vision Generation Comparison Guide - AR15.COM

 

[James Mark]

That's all for my question, thanks Camille & GBMaryland, you guys are great, & thanks for your great help, till then... have a nice day, & god bless.

 

[Strykervet]

I got a Gen.3, hand select, OMNI-7 build ITT Pinnacle Night Enforcer. This model is way better than milspec (unless you run across that one in a thousand milspec model that's stellar). OMNI-7 is stricter than 8, hand select is better than milspec because each one is selected and you can set the specs, so mine is "Strykervet spec" not milspec. There's also fewer spots, and none in the center. See what I mean? I could go on and on about TNVC, their stellar CS, etc., but as far as the NODs go, they sent me exactly what we talked about and they even promised to take 'em back no questions asked if I could find another better set issued on Ft. Lewis, which are all milspec, some OMNI-7, some 8 --I couldn't find a set better than mine. ITT sets are all factory assembled in their ISO clean room, which was important for me at the time, so if you want top of the line factory ITT, you want this one. TNVC's offering of one with just a soft case and minimal accessories was great too --useful case, saved some money, and the aftermarket mounts are much better anyway, so why pay for junk you don't need/use?

The TNVC model can be ordered hand select and they claim they can get better numbers than factory can even, but they have to assemble and test the system to determine this. Note if you order hand select and want high numbers all around, you may have to wait --but trust me, it was worth the month or two (I'd waited years already anyway, what's a couple months to get exactly what I want?).

TNVC didn't try to sell me on shit either. They just answered my questions and helped me pick the right numbers for my set. You want different numbers depending on where you are --for no stars or moon, heavy overcast for instance, you want high signal to noise vs. high resolution (which most would pick). It's important to get the right set for the right environment if possible. It's hard to get both numbers high, but TNVC claims their in-house builds can test this high. But you'll have to wait for a tube that good to come along (like any hand select model really, TNVC or ITT).

If I were to get another set, I wouldn't hesitate to use TNVC's model. Particularly if I were to get an L3 set --they outsource and they're all OMNI-8's now anyway, so save the money here. Whatever you get, get hand select though, it's worth it.

I have a Larue mount setup and EOTech and I (almost) never use it. Just get a good head mount instead and use a laser on the rifle. IR lasers work great here with the headmount and you'll likely want IR illumination anyway. That's why I got ITT --I didn't figure on mounting to anything larger than 5.56 and head mounted 99% of the time. Also, I plan on getting a clip on one day for scopes and heavier rifles, so that'll solve that altogether.

PS, consider the Crye soft cover and Wicox (G4?) shroud, the $55 or so one that's in the pictures with it, whether you have a helmet/mount or not. For $150 all said and done, that's the best head mount out there IMO. Get a good mounting arm (I like the INVG for stability, but anything good by Wilcox or Norotos is fine) and don't worry about a helmet unless you need protection. I almost never use my helmet anymore since getting this Crye soft cover, it's that awesome.

Good luck.

 

[GBMaryland]

I got a Gen.3, hand select, OMNI-7 build ITT Pinnacle Night Enforcer.

FYI:

I did the same thing... and ended up with a 72lpmm / 30 SN tube... with a low halo and great EBI. That is indeed a rarer tube... and then I sent it out to a 3rd party lab to verify it was exactly as requested.

The problem is: that all costs money.


PS I did not use TNVC for that specific purchase. Don't want to imply I didn't trust them, or, for that matter, anyone that's posted in this tread.

 

[James Mark]

Hi, Guys!

Thanks for sharing for once again, but as for me, still dun know which image intensifiers tubes is the best for me to use it?, I've my own though of this 3 best ultimately good solid performance image tubes for all these years to come by, so here is my chosen best tube,

(A) PHOTONIS XR-5 IMAGE INTENSIFIERS TUBE ( MADE IN FRANCE ).

(B) ITT EXELIS F9815 MX-11769 IMAGE INTENSIFIERS TUBES ( MADE IN U.S.A ).

(C) LITTON, L-3 OMNI 7 or VIII IMAGE INTENSIFIERS TUBES ( MADE IN U.S.A ).

So!, if for you guys out there, which one would you picked? & to made your perfect years to go by.

 

[James Mark]

For your info, So! let's check it out the, Tubes Data Omni Classification Chart. AUSTRALIAN NIGHT VISION FORUMS

 

[Delta4-3]

Hi, Guys!

Thanks for sharing for once again, but as for me, still dun know which image intensifiers tubes is the best for me to use it?, I've my own though of this 3 best ultimately good solid performance image tubes for all these years to come by, so here is my chosen best tube,

(A) PHOTONIS XR-5 IMAGE INTENSIFIERS TUBE ( MADE IN FRANCE ).

(B) ITT EXELIS F9815 MX-11769 IMAGE INTENSIFIERS TUBES ( MADE IN U.S.A ).

(C) LITTON, L-3 OMNI 7 or VIII IMAGE INTENSIFIERS TUBES ( MADE IN U.S.A ).

So!, if for you guys out there, which one would you picked? & to made your perfect years to go by.

Photonis would be the last choice. They are exceptional tubes for not being American, but they are not up there yet with our latest Gen3.