I recently got a RRA 1903A4 and have truly enjoyed shooting it. I normally shoot a Remington 700 LTR and have had no trouble shooting well at distances out to 600 yards. When comparing the two weapons (30 06 verses 308) they both appear to be very accurate and are around ½ MOA shooters. My question is why don’t I see more 30 06 rifles used as LE or Military snipers? My A4 clone is very accurate, granted I have only shot her to 300 yards, with the only limiting factor to shooting tight groups the lack of magnification on the scope. I find I have to limit my groups to three shots, as it takes a lot of concentration to get tight clover leaf groups. But, if I put a modern scope on the rifle I am sure I would get excellent performance at longer distances. It would seem to me the 30 06 would fill the gap between 308 and the heavier popular sniping cartridges (338 and 300 WM). In addition, wouldn’t the 30 06 be a better performer than the 308 at distances out to 1000/1200 yards; wouldn’t it also have a wider range of bullet weights that could be loaded?
- Thread starter mb3
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The short answer is: Yes.
The reason you don't see many LE rifles in 30-06 because factory match 30-06 ammo is equivalent to .308 but more expensive and harder to find.
And the military already has well-developed .308 and .300WM programs, which they started after the .308 was standardized from the 30-06.
If one could only have one rifle, a 30-06 with a 10-twist barrel is ideal. In standard loadings it's as docile and as accurate as a .308. Pushed hard, it will almost equal a 300WM.
The reason you don't see many LE rifles in 30-06 because factory match 30-06 ammo is equivalent to .308 but more expensive and harder to find.
And the military already has well-developed .308 and .300WM programs, which they started after the .308 was standardized from the 30-06.
If one could only have one rifle, a 30-06 with a 10-twist barrel is ideal. In standard loadings it's as docile and as accurate as a .308. Pushed hard, it will almost equal a 300WM.
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308 can do almost anything the 06 can do, but with a short action. When going to 1,000 and beyond, .30-06 does not have the terminal ballistics of other long actions like a 300 Win Mag or 7mm Rem Mag.
Also, when 308 was introduced, the rifles were found to be generally more accurate in competition
Also, when 308 was introduced, the rifles were found to be generally more accurate in competition
A Camero can do almost anything a Lambo can do.....
But also does not have the significant cost of .300WM, or burn the powder that 7mm does.
You mean going from the 1903 to the M24 ancestor?
Let the flame war begin! arf.com here we go!
I think a lot of this is dictated by the adoption of the 7.62x51 by the military. If you look a few decades ago, the 30-06 was the most common hunting cartridge in America. Today, I have read the most popular hunting cartridge is the .308. The most common cartridge overall in the US is probably the .223 followed by 7.62x39.
The US government's adoption of the 7.62x51 round and Russia's huge stockpiles of 7.62x39 weapons and ammo means there has been a lot more surplus ammo laying around, just as I suspect was the case when the 30-06 was the military's choice.
Ballistically, the .308 is nearly identical to the -06. and the smaller size of the .308 makes it attractive to a lot of people who aren't looking to shoot long distances. Most people who own guns will never stretch the legs of the .308, so they probably don't see any point to going to the heavier bullet combinations available in a .30-06.
M1Amen
The US government's adoption of the 7.62x51 round and Russia's huge stockpiles of 7.62x39 weapons and ammo means there has been a lot more surplus ammo laying around, just as I suspect was the case when the 30-06 was the military's choice.
Ballistically, the .308 is nearly identical to the -06. and the smaller size of the .308 makes it attractive to a lot of people who aren't looking to shoot long distances. Most people who own guns will never stretch the legs of the .308, so they probably don't see any point to going to the heavier bullet combinations available in a .30-06.
M1Amen
Because it's old, it's not "hot" and "new" and it's not something different that your best shoothing buddy doesn't have.
That said, if I could've gotten the deal on my Rem. 700 V in 30-06 instead of .308, I would have done so.
That said, if I could've gotten the deal on my Rem. 700 V in 30-06 instead of .308, I would have done so.
kimberseries1 said:
Car comparisons? Really?
You have to decide: are you going to compare factory ammo or reloading possibilities? If comparing factory ammo 30-06 to 308, then yes- 308 will come very close. Usually around 100fps difference for 150gr, sometimes less. If comparing reloading, then you have to use powder charges within 5-10gr of the 7mm to get improved performance while still falling short of the belted magnums, saving only a few pennies per round. So as far as I'm concerned, the .30-06 is outdated because it can't fit in a Short Action, and weaker than most Long Action.
For the guys comparing the ballistics of a 308 to a 30-06 there's a major factor that is being ignored and which is constantly ignored in these discussions by the proponents of a 308 over 30-06 for ballistic performance.
The factor is the M1 Garand and the limitations that the gas system and op rod of that design impose on the capability of the actual cartridge itself.
The 30-06 is good for 175-200fps MORE velocity than an equivalent barrel length 308 for any bullet you put into it. There's something to the fact that 30-06 loads in modern actions, modern bullets, and modern powders have 15gr more propellant in them on average. Where does that extra 15gr of powder go to?
The 30-06 is hands down my favorite all around cartridge with the 6.5 Creedmoor being #2.
Start at 600yd and increment out to 1300yd with a 308 against a 30-06 and see when the guys that steadfastly claim the 308 is ballistically equivalent start making excuses for their misses.
The 30-06 has an easy 350-400yd of effective range on a 308, I've used mine to hit targets from a mile away.
I own all 3, 308, 30-06 and 300WM. The 30-06 so nicely balances the pro-con list of the 308 and 300WM that I find it to be an exceptional performer and exceptionally well balanced round.
I'd love to know what brass you're using that you can get 70+gr of powder in a 30-06 case because even my 7WSM uses 73.5gr of Retumbo and my buddy's 7RM is pushing 77gr of powder out of the barrel. The most I've ever managed to get into thin Winchester 30-06 brass is 62gr and that included some very arduous hoop jumping during bullet seating (shake, soft seat, turn case and press upside down, finish seating).
The factor is the M1 Garand and the limitations that the gas system and op rod of that design impose on the capability of the actual cartridge itself.
The 30-06 is good for 175-200fps MORE velocity than an equivalent barrel length 308 for any bullet you put into it. There's something to the fact that 30-06 loads in modern actions, modern bullets, and modern powders have 15gr more propellant in them on average. Where does that extra 15gr of powder go to?
The 30-06 is hands down my favorite all around cartridge with the 6.5 Creedmoor being #2.
Start at 600yd and increment out to 1300yd with a 308 against a 30-06 and see when the guys that steadfastly claim the 308 is ballistically equivalent start making excuses for their misses.
The 30-06 has an easy 350-400yd of effective range on a 308, I've used mine to hit targets from a mile away.
I own all 3, 308, 30-06 and 300WM. The 30-06 so nicely balances the pro-con list of the 308 and 300WM that I find it to be an exceptional performer and exceptionally well balanced round.
Archer762 said:
I'd love to know what brass you're using that you can get 70+gr of powder in a 30-06 case because even my 7WSM uses 73.5gr of Retumbo and my buddy's 7RM is pushing 77gr of powder out of the barrel. The most I've ever managed to get into thin Winchester 30-06 brass is 62gr and that included some very arduous hoop jumping during bullet seating (shake, soft seat, turn case and press upside down, finish seating).
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These are great replies thanks, some very interesting points being made. I really started thinking more about the 30 06 after shooting it in my 1903A4 clone, and I am in the process of working up some 308 loads for some 1000 yard shooting I hope to do in a few months. Then I considered it might be fun to take my A4 clone out and try her at 1000 yards, even with the scope limitations. So I started to wonder if I should build up a modern rifle in 30 06 (maybe 24 inch barrel), or should I build up a second 308 rifle with a 24 or 26 inch barrel for the 1000 yard shoot. The more I looked at my books and considered powder and bullet variations the 30 06 looked more viable for my needs, and I was wondering why I don’t read more about its use in the LEO/Mil Sniper community. I recognize when compared to magnum rounds the 30 06 falls short but, to my way of thinking it has its advantages. To me the 30 06 is more manageable I can shoot 60 rounds, with a steel butt plate, and still be able to use my right arm the next day. I have spent some time behind a 338 lapua and did not feel the same way. Regarding cost per round, the 06 is fairly inexpensive to reload.
I shoot the 308 and 30-06 in LR rifles.
For serious LR, the 30-06 is a handloader's chambering. Factory match-grade 30-06 ammo is pretty thin, and the only stuff i've actually seen is 168gr SMK at 2650 fps or so. In other words FGMM 308 168gr equivalent. So if you don't handload, there's no real point in going 30-06.
If you do handload, the 30-06 is a very good balance of performance, shootability, and barrel life. With a 26" bbl, you can launch 208/210 gr bullets at 2800 fps, while still having plenty of elbow room in the magazine. So we're talking 2800 fps, .6+ BCs, 200+ gr of bullet. That's a fair recipe for LR success.
In my 308 Win handloads, I've pushed 208s to 2700 fps in a 26" bbl, but that required loading them to 3.08" OAL. So it makes a single-shot proposition. At typical mag-length, the 308 will generally be 150-200 fps behind a handloaded 30-06.
Handloaded, the 30-06 lands pretty much midway between the 308 Win, and the 300 WinMag. That's not a horrible place to be.
Modern powders and bullets have made the precision bolt action 30-06 a whole different animal than the old-school 30-06 of the 1940s and 1950s with ammo regulated to the M1 Garand.
For serious LR, the 30-06 is a handloader's chambering. Factory match-grade 30-06 ammo is pretty thin, and the only stuff i've actually seen is 168gr SMK at 2650 fps or so. In other words FGMM 308 168gr equivalent. So if you don't handload, there's no real point in going 30-06.
If you do handload, the 30-06 is a very good balance of performance, shootability, and barrel life. With a 26" bbl, you can launch 208/210 gr bullets at 2800 fps, while still having plenty of elbow room in the magazine. So we're talking 2800 fps, .6+ BCs, 200+ gr of bullet. That's a fair recipe for LR success.
In my 308 Win handloads, I've pushed 208s to 2700 fps in a 26" bbl, but that required loading them to 3.08" OAL. So it makes a single-shot proposition. At typical mag-length, the 308 will generally be 150-200 fps behind a handloaded 30-06.
Handloaded, the 30-06 lands pretty much midway between the 308 Win, and the 300 WinMag. That's not a horrible place to be.
Modern powders and bullets have made the precision bolt action 30-06 a whole different animal than the old-school 30-06 of the 1940s and 1950s with ammo regulated to the M1 Garand.
bohem said:
Most loads for 7mm Rem Mag do not call for anything close to 77gr. Most published loads are around 65. What you want to stuff in there, is up to you. If you are a reloader you should know what I'm talking about- a hot 30-06 load is only pennies cheaper than a standard 7mm Rem Mag load, with less performance at 1,000 and beyond.
While that may be true, comparing book loads to the most you can get out of one is not a direct comparison. If you load 7 mag and you haven't tried H1000 under the 160class or RETUMBO under the 180class, it's going to revolutionize what you get from that case. Much like using RL22 and H4831sc in a 30-06 instead of BLC-2.
Tempting. One of these days I'm going to rebarrel my Rem 721 that's chambered in 270 win to a 30-06. When I get around to it I'll probably kick myself for waiting so long.
Any issues with the 168 in 30 06 going subsonic at 1000 yards, like the 308/168? I am developing a load with AA2495 and the Berger 175 BTHP. Most likely going to try HXP brass, the only other brass I have on hand in 06 right now is some Hornady and Federal (American Eagle).
I don't have any firsthand experience with the 168gr in the 30-06. In commercial ammo I would guess the instability issue would be about the same as it is with the 168gr in the 308, since they are both doing about the same MV.
Handloaded 168s in the 30-06 may be better at 1K, given that they could be loaded to 2900 fps or so, depending on bbl length.
When I started shooting my precision 30-06, I was loading moly'd 190gr SMKs to 2900 fps, via RL22, and a 26" bbl. Later on I had it cut to 22", and I'm now launching moly'd 208 AMax at 2720 fps via RL22, and RL17.
Handloaded 168s in the 30-06 may be better at 1K, given that they could be loaded to 2900 fps or so, depending on bbl length.
When I started shooting my precision 30-06, I was loading moly'd 190gr SMKs to 2900 fps, via RL22, and a 26" bbl. Later on I had it cut to 22", and I'm now launching moly'd 208 AMax at 2720 fps via RL22, and RL17.
mb3 - The 168SMK will easily go past 1k from the 30-06, take a look at ~ 55gr of H4350 to start and work up from there. You'll likely get close to 3000fps from a 26" barreled rifle. There are much better bullets to use, but if that's what you have on hand it will certainly make the trip.
I think one would have to take into consideration the 'age group' that makes up the folks that come to this forum! IMO...the younger set doesn't have the experience that some of the older guys have in using the Old War Horse as it just doesn't have the 'cool factor' as the newer cartridges. After all, it's been around since 1906 and anything THAT OLD....just can't be efficient! All I can say to that type of thinking is "BS GALORE"! I've won many NRA HP events shooting the 30/06 in years past long before I changed over from the NM M1 Garand in Service Rifle Comp to the M14. The ONLY REASON I changed over to the M14 WAS NOT because the M1 wasn't accurate; rather it was because the way the Op Rod on the M1 was designed vs the Op rod on the M14. The M14 has a straight Op rod that requires virtually no maintenance whereas the rod on the Garand takes a special 'bend' and oft times this requires attention by someone schooled in the maintenance thereof and a readily available supply to change one out as is required at times.
If one REALLY wants to find out the reliability and accuracy potential of the old 30/06 I would suggest that reading be done here:
The Rifleman's Journal: Cartridges: The Logical .30-06
If one REALLY wants to find out the reliability and accuracy potential of the old 30/06 I would suggest that reading be done here:
The Rifleman's Journal: Cartridges: The Logical .30-06
I'm far from old and have extensive workings with 3006. I'm building a new one to be alot more useful. 2950 with 60grs rl22 and 190gr smks
After reading all of the responses to my OP (some very good opinions BTW) I have decided to build my long range gun based on the 30 06. As a follow up question: what are your opinions on the Remington 700 SPS in 30 06? I know a couple of people who have the SPS Tactical in 308 and they are very happy with their rifles. I have shot the SPS Tactical and thought it was a great rifle for the price, capable of 1/2 MOA groups (I shot one out to 300 yards @ 1/2 MOA). I know the stock is not very good but I can change that out. I consider the 700 SPS a starting point something I can build on.
Great discussion. Just bought my first 30'06 for a light weight hunting rifle with plans to make her all fancy in a couple years, probably even lighter as a mountain rifle. From where I stand, the 06 wins with more readily available brass (for free) than the magnums and frequently can shoot well with powders I keep on hand in quantity for other loading I already do. Would love to get a 300WM some day, but after reading this and some other useful (rare on this interweb) info, a nice custom 06 should do more than I will ever will be able to.
To the OP, I have owned a few Rem SPS, 700P, LTR rifles. Some shoot, some dont. I sold the ones that didnt. If it doesnt shoot, you can either try another or see if some simple work can make it shoot. Good thread in the gunsmithing section on it, but I am not smart enough with computers to post a link for you to follow. Good luck and have fun.
To the OP, I have owned a few Rem SPS, 700P, LTR rifles. Some shoot, some dont. I sold the ones that didnt. If it doesnt shoot, you can either try another or see if some simple work can make it shoot. Good thread in the gunsmithing section on it, but I am not smart enough with computers to post a link for you to follow. Good luck and have fun.
Except shoot heavy bullets. I have both and prefer the .308 for 175 gr or less bullets. I can "lob" a 220 gr bullet with the '06 far more accurately.
As for '06 and competition, German Salazar sure likes it and he has more than one or two trophies to show his success with it.
IMHO, many calibers gain or lose popularity on the basis of what various military's use. Some of it is for the "coolness" of having a "sniper caliber", some for the readily available brass, ammo, etc, and others actually based on the intrinsic accuracy of each.
In the end its the Ford vs Chevy vs Mopar vs Foreign debate. Depends on what you like and what gets the job done.
Good conversation on teh 06 gents, figured I resurrect this thread because there have been a few threads on this superior caliber lately.
I have shot both .308 and 30-06. Accuracy within the supersonic range is equal using handloads. The 30-06 has more range to it because it is faster. Factory match loads for the .308 are MUCH more available than the 30-06. I reload so this doesn't matter to me. I have loaded my Kimber 84L Montana 30-06 with 180gr Hornady Interbond using H4350 at 2950fps before I saw some minor preasure signs. A quality rifle using quality ammo; the 30-06 has a slight edge in external ballistics.
This is the best post regarding the debate between the .308 & '06. I reload and I love the the 7.62x63!
Wow this is a great thread. I'm building a .338lm right now just for lr target but this is making me want to rebarrel and true my 30-06 (first rifle given to me by dad, so it obviously Isnt goin g anywhere) and mess with some longer distances with that too as a more suitable lr hunting rifle
At a LR practice yesterday, I shot next to a guy shooting a pretty much stock Savage 110 hunting rifle in .30-06 with the sporter style barrel. He shot with us out to 1000 yds and kept hitting steel with regularity. I really expected to see him have trouble as his barrel heated up, but that didn't happen. It was great to see him doing this with a rifle he bought for $350 and did nothing but bed the action on.
He did show me that he had bedded the barrel all the way up the stock, which is unorthodox to say the least. But it worked for him.
Something different and at least a testament to the inherent accuracy of the round.
He did show me that he had bedded the barrel all the way up the stock, which is unorthodox to say the least. But it worked for him.
Something different and at least a testament to the inherent accuracy of the round.
Here's my heavy 30-06. Douglas #7 stainless 1/10 twist. 22.5" plus Badger Ord Thruster brings it to 24" from boltface. McMillan A2, Badger Ord bottom metal, recoil lug, bolt knob. Just put the 12X SWFA onboard after years with a MK4 16X. No problem starting the 208 AMax at 2700+ fps, 225gr Hornady BTHP at 2600 fps.
30 caliber in shoulder fired weapon sucks. The only reason we ever used/still using it is the messed up military logistics. With that said, 308 is awful, but slightly less awful than the 30-06.
Few cartridges ever needed to exist since the invention of 7x57 .... but it was sooooooooo darn Imperial German that even Germans didn't want to use it LOL
Few cartridges ever needed to exist since the invention of 7x57 .... but it was sooooooooo darn Imperial German that even Germans didn't want to use it LOL
That's good to know, thanks for the heads-up.....
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Very interesting debate. I have leaned to the .308 mostly because I don't have the opportunity to shoot 1000+ so I don't really need to have a 30/06. I have a Rem 700 in .308, as well as a Chilean Mauser, an HK G3 clone, and a Garand converted to .308 with a new Criterion barrel. I reload so sticking with .308/7.62x51 makes sense to me. I also have a Remington 721 in .270 which I use for hunting, and a RC 41 byf 98k Mauser in 7.92x57. The 8mm Mauser is very similar to the 30/06, but the Mauser in its original configuration doesn't allow low mounting of modern scopes due to the clearance requirements for the safety and the bolt handle. I have a scout scope and it works well set up like that. My 721 is set up with a Williams peep which I like, and I'll leave it like it is. The .270 never has been well received in the LD shooting community and therefore there aren't really many match grade bullets available for it. The .270 has work for any game that I have ever hunted in the US, and really is a decent long action caliber which is based on the 30/06 family.
A lot of dead Germans,Japanese, Italians and V.C. Would disagree with you if they were alive to talk about...
Lots of people died during the wars for different reason. I am not sure why would you bring it up in this trivial discussion, either way it's not an excuse for piss-poor cartridge design.
Are you going to expand why its such a poor cartridge/caliber or just throw out sweeping generalizations that bring no value to the subject being discussed in this thread?
^^^^^^^^^^
Sent from my SCH-I605
Sent from my SCH-I605
Hmm...guess I can't make it much worse...
Sounds like the factory match 30.06 loads aren't much hotter than match 308 loads. Sure, you can see some improvement handloading, but most police departments don't want the added liability. Plus the military uses 308, so it has to be awesomer. The military uses 308 because some general or committee got sold on the "hot, new" caliber and ditched the 30.06 long ago. Or something...
Sounds like the factory match 30.06 loads aren't much hotter than match 308 loads. Sure, you can see some improvement handloading, but most police departments don't want the added liability. Plus the military uses 308, so it has to be awesomer. The military uses 308 because some general or committee got sold on the "hot, new" caliber and ditched the 30.06 long ago. Or something...
The 308 and 30-06 are so well designed they have been working since dirt was young, in all manner of weaponry, in every condition imaginable. Both have also spawned their own families of cartridges.
They only improve with advances in bullets and propellants.
They only improve with advances in bullets and propellants.
7x57 and 6.5x55 were "designed, 30-06 and 308 were convoluted.
30-06 - Krag bullet, Mauser face, "maximum tolerable" charge. They though it was soooo badass it had 2850 yard setting on the rifle
308 - realizing that 30-06 is unsuitable, smaller cartridge was required, but since we are still married to Krag it had to be 30cal. Came up with 308, shoved it down NATO throat two years later .... and promptly dismissed it as the shortest lived primary service caliber.
No reasonable person would intentionally choose to use 308 or 30-06 unless someone tells you to - be it Uncle Sam or specific competition (FTR, CMP, Vintage); remove the "cartridge" requirement and you'll be hard pressed to find anyone running a 308 or 30-06 (Tactical, run-and-gun, F-Open, benchrest etc).
Now, I believe that 308 is great learning and practice cartridge simply due to commonality; but it's the McDonald's of the cartridges - just because every town has one, doesn't make it the best hamburger ... or even a good one ... it's simply bearable.
30-06 - Krag bullet, Mauser face, "maximum tolerable" charge. They though it was soooo badass it had 2850 yard setting on the rifle
308 - realizing that 30-06 is unsuitable, smaller cartridge was required, but since we are still married to Krag it had to be 30cal. Came up with 308, shoved it down NATO throat two years later .... and promptly dismissed it as the shortest lived primary service caliber.
No reasonable person would intentionally choose to use 308 or 30-06 unless someone tells you to - be it Uncle Sam or specific competition (FTR, CMP, Vintage); remove the "cartridge" requirement and you'll be hard pressed to find anyone running a 308 or 30-06 (Tactical, run-and-gun, F-Open, benchrest etc).
Now, I believe that 308 is great learning and practice cartridge simply due to commonality; but it's the McDonald's of the cartridges - just because every town has one, doesn't make it the best hamburger ... or even a good one ... it's simply bearable.
You're long on opinion but short on reasoning. I'm not disagreeing but would be interested if you had numbers and facts for the comparison rather than unsupported derision. What do you mean by "designed"? For what? How does the design enable superior performance?
German Salazar has won multiple competitions going against the "hot" and "new" cartridges with the "old" and "dusty" 30-06. Now I'm betting he could've won with a 6/6.5/7 mm cartridge, but it goes to show that the 30-06 is still a good choice for competition, it is not the best, but it is a viable cartridge.
Me personally? I'm a 30-06 fanboy, I adore the cartridge.
Me personally? I'm a 30-06 fanboy, I adore the cartridge.
The military uses 308 because some general or committee got sold on the "hot, new" caliber and ditched the 30.06 long ago. Or something...
Actually, the military makes decisions like this based on weight. The lighter the cartridge the more rounds an individual soldier can carry. The more rounds you can put on a supply truck or "supply bird". With all the "battle rattle" a soldier has to carry today, weight is important. It's not all about the "Hot New" but more "what's practical and effective". There's no such thing as a "one size fits all caliber". That's why the military has everything from 9mm pistols to 155mm Artillery.
The .308 is still a very effective round for the guy carrying the Bolt Action (M-24 or M-40) while the 5.56mm gives the "grunt" more "bullets for his gun". If they need something nice and heavy, the good old M-2 is still doing it's job since it was adopted in 1933 by our military.
I am kind of on the fence with this one.
The 30-06 is a fine, old cartridge that performs very well.
That being said, if you look at it objectively, in some respects MoBoost is correct.
I do not have the disdain for the .30 cal bullet diameter that he does, but step back and look at the design of the 7x57 and the 30-06.
The 7, although more than 10 years senior to the 06, is a much more modern cartridge design with a nice sharp 30 degree shoulder and a medium length case, where the 06 has a gradual, sloping shoulder of what, 17 or 18 degrees? and an additional 6mm in cartridge length for no real gain in performance.
The .308 is a fine cartridge as well. It is the most accurate commercial .30 cal cartridge ever produced. It is easy on barrels, it is plenty powerful for most uses in the lower 48.
if they would have made the garand as originally designed, with 10 rounds of .276 Pederson, we likely would never have had the .308
Of course, as early as 1895, the Navy wanted a 6mm cartridge. Bean counters won, along with the fact that they didn't have the proper powders to truly support the cartridge.
The 30-06 is a fine, old cartridge that performs very well.
That being said, if you look at it objectively, in some respects MoBoost is correct.
I do not have the disdain for the .30 cal bullet diameter that he does, but step back and look at the design of the 7x57 and the 30-06.
The 7, although more than 10 years senior to the 06, is a much more modern cartridge design with a nice sharp 30 degree shoulder and a medium length case, where the 06 has a gradual, sloping shoulder of what, 17 or 18 degrees? and an additional 6mm in cartridge length for no real gain in performance.
The .308 is a fine cartridge as well. It is the most accurate commercial .30 cal cartridge ever produced. It is easy on barrels, it is plenty powerful for most uses in the lower 48.
if they would have made the garand as originally designed, with 10 rounds of .276 Pederson, we likely would never have had the .308
Of course, as early as 1895, the Navy wanted a 6mm cartridge. Bean counters won, along with the fact that they didn't have the proper powders to truly support the cartridge.
I put the 6.5x55, 7x57, and 30-06 all in the same boat. Timeless classics. They are all excellent chamberings that have only gotten better with current powders and bullets.
In all three you can get good bullets in the .6+ BC range, and run them at similar speeds. The biggest decision is between bullet weights. 140gr, 162/168, or 208/210gr respectively. Load any in a 26" barrel and 2800 fps is easily arranged. That spells good LR performance, and good barrel life, any way you want to go.
In all three you can get good bullets in the .6+ BC range, and run them at similar speeds. The biggest decision is between bullet weights. 140gr, 162/168, or 208/210gr respectively. Load any in a 26" barrel and 2800 fps is easily arranged. That spells good LR performance, and good barrel life, any way you want to go.
The 50 BMG is a scaled up 30-06. Another piss poor design.....give or take.
I've gleaned some useful info here. I now know that any chambering that uses a pre-existing casehead or bore diameter, is a convolution, not a legitimate design.......wow, who knew.
I have reloaded both the 308 and 06, when surplus powder dried up and the $35/ 8lbs keg with it (2003) I couldn't afford the extra powder needed to fill the larger case. I could load 1000 308 for the same charge as 850 of the 06. The math and wallet killed the 06 for me, sadly missed this great caliber.
Cheers
Cheers
Eventually I'll probably rebarrel one of my 308s to 6.5 Creedmoor, even though it's a convolution.....grin
