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Is my crown ok?

M

MS204

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 11, 2013
28
0
CA
I'm not sure what to make of this because this is my first bolt rifle and I am new to long range shooting. I don't know how bad this will affect accuracy or if I should even worry about it. While cleaning my 5R I noticed the crown has a slight "dent" so I grabbed the camera to take pics and ask. Then when the image showed up I saw the scratch marks on the face. How bad is this and should I get it fixed?

Thanks.

DSCN0463.jpgDSCN0465.JPGDSCN0462.jpg


UPDATE in Post #30.
 
Last edited:
Here's a pic of my 10 shot group at 100 yards with 168gr FGMM. Keep in mind I'm brand new to this and had only shot a 308 rifle once before..

IMG_8193.jpg

EDIT: not sure how that came out rotated. looks fine in my phone.
 
So has it always shot like this...or is this an all of a sudden FGGM ammo won't shoot less than a 2" group at 100yrds?

Are your action screws still torqued to the correct specs? Is your base and rings still torqued to the right specs? Make sure all your variables are checked....and it could be that the crown is affecting the shot placements....especially if you get the same results with another brand of match quality ammo.
 
That is some crappy shooting.

You need to have a good shooter try your rifle, to eliminate the "novice shooter" variable.

As a novice, you need to have a rifle you *know* shoots. That way when you print a group like the one above, you know your inexperience is the problem...instead of wondering if something is wrong with the rifle.

It it won't hold at least 3/4 moa with the FGM ammo, there's a problem.

Hard to say whether the dinged crown *is* the problem or not, but it isn't helping.
 
okay, i'll try and get someone more experienced to shoot it and then see how it goes.
 
I will say one pic does get my attention. Perhaps it's just flash. But I think your crown might need to be cleaned up. If nothing else, to eliminate the variable. As stated, check other stuff first. If rifle shoots well (for you or anyone else), I say leave it. If not, have it re-crowned. Shouldn't be much money.

TTR
 
I will say one pic does get my attention. Perhaps it's just flash. But I think your crown might need to be cleaned up. If nothing else, to eliminate the variable. As stated, check other stuff first. If rifle shoots well (for you or anyone else), I say leave it. If not, have it re-crowned. Shouldn't be much money.

TTR
 
I don't think it's bad shooting.
1.5" for 10 rounds of factory ammo isn't bad at all.
Also the group is round with no flyer.
 
Kevin1 said:
I don't think it's bad shooting.
1.5" for 10 rounds of factory ammo isn't bad at all.
Also the group is round with no flyer.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your encouragement. I've only had the rifle for a week. That group was from this past Saturday which was the 1st time I took it out, and the first time I shot 100 yards with a scope. My first group was about 6" wide during sight in w/ some CBC 147gr. I was pretty proud to improve 4 inches in the 2 hours I was at the range. :)

Just to be clear to ya'll I'm not trying to ask why my group is 2" or anything...just that I noticed the crown issue when I was cleaning it and was wondering if I need to be worried. I guess what I will do is keep shooting. If I find that the groups aren't getting any better (for me or for anyone else) then I will look into having it re-crowned. Can anyone give me an idea of how much that would cost?
 
Same question as dk-1, where (region) are you in California? I'm sure there are enough folks here on the Hide that could help you, but we'd need to know roughly where you're at...
 
I'm in Southern California, specifically Chino. It's hot as hell, smells like cow shit, and there's flies all over the place but hey it's home.
 
Let the shooter here stand up who shot a perfect 10 shot group on their first outting! MS, it may need a recrown, hard to say. Go shoot, shoot some more, practice, get trigger control down, shoot some more, and have fun. Good for you and ignore all the internet commandos who say your shooting is poor.
 
Have someone shoot it that can really test out the accuracy.

Make sure your screws/rings/everything is torqued correctly as mentioned above.
 
I say shoot more, like Kevin said no flyers. And to be brand new to the game, I think it is a damn good group.
 
I appreciate your replies. I'm not worried about group size right now so much as I want my rifle to be all it can be and let me grow into matching its shooting potential. Guess there's no harm in shooting it and seeing how it does as I get more comfortable with it. Wish I had a better trigger though. The x-mark pro I've currently got is real finnicky with adjustments, although i will say it breaks pretty cleanly. It measured 3.5# out of the box and I should have left it alone but I started playing w/ the adjustment trying to get it closer to 2.5-3# but now it's 4.3! lol serves me right.

If anyone shoots at West End I just got a limited membership there and plan to be there Sat or Sun mornings. Oh here's a pic of the whole thing. My rings are higher than I like but I got the scope used and they came w/ them. The stock is the same HS Precision one that comes on the 5R that I picked up before I got the rifle b/c it was a relatively good deal w/ the cheek piece and DBM that was already inletted. I was chatting w/ the RO and he told me I was starting out in long range precision shooting with a Ferrari when he started out in a Yugo, haha!

Rrh9R3d.jpg
 
jcann said:
Longrange Hunter did an article on the crown, keep in mind it's not scientific. But still interesting.

The Over-Rated Crown
Click to expand...

Kinda makes you say Hmmm, maybe we have been overly consumed with the perfect crown.

MS204, if you were closer we could shoot at my club and see if it were the gun or not, I have a gun or two with known capabilities.
 
Was thinking about this more...

The group is pretty round, with no obvious "fliers". To me, that indicates random dispersion and not shooter error.

It is my experience that it's rare for a good solid rifle to shoot 1+ moa with FGM ammo.

I think it's likely there is something wrong with the rifle, and that ding on the crown is the most obvious culprit.

Certainly check all the optics mounting screws and action screws. Check the barrel is fully floated. Have a known-good shooter try the rifle. Try different ammo.

If the rifle won't shoot better than 3/4moa, have it recrowned. Should run ~$100 or less.

ETA: It is a HUGE advantage to a new precision shooter to have a known good rifle. It eliminates the equipment variable. That way you KNOW why you missed. Learning requires feedback. "Good" feedback is very helpful.
 
Last edited:
RTK said:
Kinda makes you say Hmmm, maybe we have been overly consumed with the perfect crown.

MS204, if you were closer we could shoot at my club and see if it were the gun or not, I have a gun or two with known capabilities.
Click to expand...

Ssshhhh...... You meant to say the crown is extremely important and the rifle won't shoot without a perfect crown.
 
All I can add is that if I discovered that defect on my crown it would be cleaned up in a hurry. But I use my rifle to compete and can't sleep at night with controllable variables out of line.
 
I think I'm going to just shoot it for a few hundred more rounds then see about getting a muzzle brake! :D
 
Update

Update in case anyone's wondering...

I took the rifle back out two more times and shot groups. On the first trip after the one that inspired this post, I had the RO shoot a group out of my gun. He shot a 3-shot group measuring 0.800" at 100 yards using Federal GMM. That same trip I shot 2 groups of 5 rounds at 1.713" and 1.866" group with Federal GMM and some CBC 147gr ammo, respectively. Pretty much about the same as what I got the first trip.

RO's group:http://i.imgur.com/kXJNUddh.jpg

My groups:
CBC Magtech 147gr 7.62x51: http://i.imgur.com/eqGBegAh.jpg
Federal GMM 168gr SMK: http://i.imgur.com/wQmIDjMh.jpg

Before the most recent trip, I found some 168gr SMK's and loaded up some rounds for load testing. I also practiced dry firing quite a bit more on my dining room table while aiming down the street at my neighbor's front door dog placard (they're really into JRT's). Back at the range, I did a control group w/ the Federal GMM's again and got my usual result: 1.738". However, with 42.5gr and 43.0gr of Varget...I got a surprise: 0.619" and a 3-shot hole at 0.409"!! I was pretty happy with those.

Federal GMM 168gr SMK:: http://i.imgur.com/8a6uVIR.jpg
42.5gr Varget & 168gr SMK: http://i.imgur.com/4G8NHcQ.jpg
43.0gr Varget & 168gr SMK: http://i.imgur.com/ra8IAVMh.jpg

So, long story short...I think my crown is probably okay. I still may get a muzzle brake if I ever get into shooting longer range or start shooting matches, but I have a lot to learn still before that.

Thanks for reading.
 
Try using finer aiming points when shooting groups. For instance I use 1" squares..my poa is the corners of the square.
 
Dude, after looking at that first picture and the group results....you need to get that crown touched up. Personally I would be embarrassed to send out a rifle with that kind of crown damage. Accuracy is suffering for sure. It may not be that obvious at 100 yards, but stretch it out and you will see the difference.
 
Give Randy at R&D Precision a call. He is local and can recrown and install a muzzle break.
 
MS204 said:
Update in case anyone's wondering...

I took the rifle back out two more times and shot groups. On the first trip after the one that inspired this post, I had the RO shoot a group out of my gun. He shot a 3-shot group measuring 0.800" at 100 yards using Federal GMM. That same trip I shot 2 groups of 5 rounds at 1.713" and 1.866" group with Federal GMM and some CBC 147gr ammo, respectively. Pretty much about the same as what I got the first trip.

RO's group:http://i.imgur.com/kXJNUddh.jpg

My groups:
CBC Magtech 147gr 7.62x51: http://i.imgur.com/eqGBegAh.jpg
Federal GMM 168gr SMK: http://i.imgur.com/wQmIDjMh.jpg

Before the most recent trip, I found some 168gr SMK's and loaded up some rounds for load testing. I also practiced dry firing quite a bit more on my dining room table while aiming down the street at my neighbor's front door dog placard (they're really into JRT's). Back at the range, I did a control group w/ the Federal GMM's again and got my usual result: 1.738". However, with 42.5gr and 43.0gr of Varget...I got a surprise: 0.619" and a 3-shot hole at 0.409"!! I was pretty happy with those.

Federal GMM 168gr SMK:: http://i.imgur.com/8a6uVIR.jpg
42.5gr Varget & 168gr SMK: http://i.imgur.com/4G8NHcQ.jpg
43.0gr Varget & 168gr SMK: http://i.imgur.com/ra8IAVMh.jpg

So, long story short...I think my crown is probably okay. I still may get a muzzle brake if I ever get into shooting longer range or start shooting matches, but I have a lot to learn still before that.

Thanks for reading.
Click to expand...

Holy hell, I don't know whether it's lucky or unlucky but you should go buy a lottery ticket either way. This has got to be the first rifle I've seen that didn't like FGMM. The groups with hand loads are how that rifle should shoot.
 
I think I will have to come back and re-examine the problem when I start shooting past 100 yards, like Aaron said.
 
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