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Critique my set up

Guntersxr

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 1, 2013
10
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I recently acquired a savage model 111 in 7 rem mag. I had a nice redfield 3-9x50 in my safe so I decided to mate the 2, but I guess because its a shorter scope, I couldn't attach it without getting a picatinny rail mount that goes all the way across the action. I had a set of cheap scope rings in the stash so I slapped them on and went and shot the rifle. I have a few issues/concerns to ask you pros. I'm not having much luck zeroing in the rifle, I'm on paper at 100 and can get all the rounds inside a 8" group but despite adjusting the scope I cant seem to get any consistency out of it. my first guess is the cheap rings not being able to hold the recoil of the 7mag. thoughts? also im not happy with how far forward the scope is sitting on the rifle but with the 50mm objective lens and the picatinny rail mount I don't seem to have many options without switching scopes. (which I don't want to do). and lastly, do you thing the scope is mounted too far off the rifle? this rifle will be 99.9% my rifle for whitetail hunting and I pride myself on taking well placed shots to ensure the cleanest harvest. im wanting to zero at 250 yds. im using Winchester 175 grain soft point factory loads. if any other information is needed please let me know.

pictures of my setup:
 
Things I'm going to ask that weren't mentioned above: Is the barrel free-floated? Is the action bedded to the stock? Is that the factory stock? How is the trigger pull? Do you already or have any intentions of reloading? Not really seeing much promise coming from your ammo selection, Honestly would look at getting a better stock, B&C has some good choices for hunting rigs. I would upgrade rings at a minimum to a set of Burris XTR tactical rings. Then I would sell the scope and look at some of the options from Burris, Nikon and Leupold for hunting scopes. And last thing, reload and dial in a load based on accuracy not power. You have a 7 mag, you're already starting with more power than most non-magnums max loads. But what good is power if its not going where you want it consistently.
 
I believe the barrel is free floated, yes. Everything is stock minus the scope and rail. I would like to reload this round eventually yes. I've just started reloading, as in I just bought all my gear last week. So you would recommend ditching the scope completely and going with something else? It's great glass, please explain.
 
because of the 50MM, the scope sits pretty high. When you mount the stock, can you see right out of the scope, with a good cheek weld? If you put an adjustable cheek piece on your stock, like a Karsten's, it will help with a higher mounted scope, plus you could get higher rings, which would let you move the scope back some. It looks like you have Weaver rings and some people think they are not any good because they are cheap, but I have used them for years without any issues. I have a set on a .30-06 that has been my main hunting rifle, since 69, and have never had a problem. The Karsten's cheek rest runs about $60 and is something you can put on yourself. Check if you barrel is free floated, and if not just use sandpaper with a dowel to clean it up. Also, try some different loads. With a regular hunting rifle barrel, if you fire too many rounds at a time, the barrel will heat up and go all over the place. That's one of the reasons for 3 round groups. Hope this helps some.
Also looking at your scope and ring setup, it looks like your base has square slots, and Weaver rings have round lugs on the bottom. That can cause a problem as they do not fit together right. You need rings that are square on the bottom, with that base, and they do not need to be real high priced, just a good brand name set.
 
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I have a nice set of high mount rings but don't you want the scope as close to the rifle as possible? Forgive me if that's a noobie assumption.
 
I have a nice set of high mount rings but don't you want the scope as close to the rifle as possible? Forgive me if that's a noobie assumption.

Not really, if you have an adjustable cheek rest so when you shoulder the rifle, the scope is in line with your cheek weld. My target rifles have built in adjustable cheek rests, but I have 3 of the Karsten's on rifles. If you want to use a 50MM scope, it has to sit up high. My old hunting rifle has a high cheek roll over stock and I have never had an issue with a shot, even at running game.
 
I have a nice set of high mount rings but don't you want the scope as close to the rifle as possible? Forgive me if that's a noobie assumption.

Not really, if you have an adjustable cheek rest so when you shoulder the rifle, the scope is in line with your cheek weld. My target rifles have built in adjustable cheek rests, but I have 3 of the Karsten's on rifles. If you want to use a 50MM scope, it has to sit up high. My old hunting rifle has a high cheek roll over stock and I have never had an issue with a shot, even at running game.
 
Cut the extension off the rail and you can move the scope back 3/4" or so.

I would opt for a stock pad from Triad over an adjustable comb; more comfortable with some utility to hold more ammo or tools or whatever.

I'd ditch those rings, too, they don't have jack $hit clamping force on the scope tube.

Joe
 
ok, I put the high mount rings on and with the exception of a poor cheek weld im much happier with where the scope is sitting. if you guys will asure me that its not sitting to high ill be heading out to buy a adjustable cheek rest.

 
My M1A sits way high than that, and before I put the Karsten's cheek rest on it, it sucked with a scope, no matter how much padding was used. Now it works like a charm. You will probably have to order a cheek rest, and then you have to drill 2 holes in the stock, but they give you good instructions and it is pretty easy to do. If you look up Karsten's on the web, there are some different places that carry them. They have 3 models and I have 2 of them and have a preference for one. The one that I like the best has a recessed nut, that uses and allen wrench to tighten or loosen it. It has slots on both sides, but one side has holes that the nuts go in. With a bolt action rifle, to clean it from the action end, you need to be able to get the cleaning rod in from the back. With the one that I like better, you just mark which hole you are using and then when you clean the rifle, take the nuts out and slide it down flush with the stock and when you are done cleaning, just run it back up to your marked hole and your cheek weld is the same. They come in any color, as long as you like black. The pads never give you a good cheek weld, even the military is going to adjustable cheek pieces on the new sniper bolt rifles.
 
The first thing I'd do is throw those "high" rings you have in the trash. They are the Leapers rings that come with the Center Point scopes or you can probably buy by themselves. They are complete crap. If you don't want to buy another set of rings, I'd then mount the scope back in the original Weavers and cut the rail back slightly, so you can bring the scope back more. The Weaver rings are actually pretty decent rings. They are a pita to mount and especially to mount and keep the crosshairs level since it wants to twist the scope when you tighten them down, however, if mounted properly they are extremely strong and I've never seen a set slip. If you really want to check this mark the scope in front and behind the ring and then shoot it some and you will be able to tell if it moves.

Now, that said, with the scope as far as replacing it, that's really up to you. I've had a few of the newer Redfields and I think they are a rip off for the price. You can get much better glass from Burris, Vortex, Nikon, etc for the same or less money. I also think the Leupold VX-1 is a much better deal for not much more if you have to have a Leupold. That said, they are decent hunting scopes and since you already have it, I'd be inclined to just use it instead of taking a hit on it and then having to buy something else. You also aren't going to be doing any on the fly adjustments with it as it likely won't track well enough for that, but on most hunting rifles you will just zero it then leave it alone. Unless the scope is bad I doubt it's causing your issues.

Another thing to check is to look at the crown of the rifle. Make sure it has no dings in it. You can also run a q-tip around it and see if it snags on anything as it may have a ding that you can't see with the naked eye. If you have any issues there, it could really cause the accuracy to go downhill.

Now, my biggest suggestion is try to get someone else to shoot it. If I'm wrong here please forgive me, but it sounds to me like you are kind of new to this stuff and I know when I first started shooting, I couldn't shoot for crap. It's very easy to have large groups even at 100 yards if you haven't been shooting long and don't have the practice needed. I've got a feeling with that large of groups from a Savage, and in a heavy recoiling rifle like that you may be flinching. I've yet to see a Savage, even a stock one like that which didn't shoot very well, and I've seen quite a few. If none of those suggestions work, I'd possibly try another scope, but I'd also try a few different kinds of ammo. That's not the best ammo out there, but I've generally found the Winchester Power Points to shoot well in most rifles I've tried them in, so I'd be surprised to see groups that large from it. It couldn't hurt to try a few other brands though.

Also, what kind of rest are you shooting off of? If shooting off of the pictured bipod are you using a rear bag?
 
I believe the barrel is free floated, yes. Everything is stock minus the scope and rail. I would like to reload this round eventually yes. I've just started reloading, as in I just bought all my gear last week. So you would recommend ditching the scope completely and going with something else? It's great glass, please explain.
Personally if the scope works for you, try to stick with it. From a hunting stand point, I really don't like 50mm objectives as they tend to get dinged more(at least in my experience). I recommend a little higher quality scope with a 40mm objective for size issues. Also better quality glass in the smaller objective will give the same light transmission. For a hunting scope I highly recommend looking at Burris. They have great glass for their price point and are tough little scopes. my Fulfield 3-9 took a pounding when I slipped going down some rocks in the snow. Left a couple nasty dings all over the gun me and the scope but it held its Zero. I'm not trying to bash your scope so please don't take it that way, my experience with Redfield is limited, all I'm saying is that it's not my first choice when there are better options out there. However if it works for you stick with it.
 
Slowr1der, I really appreciate all of your input. while I'm not a new shooter I am new to the 7 mag, and I very well may be flinching, that joker kicks like a mule. I do plan on putting a brake on it eventually. I am shooting off the bipod, it's a cheap $20 bipod I got from "cheaper than diamonds".

From the info I've gathered so far I'm going to file back the rail extension and the lowest Burris rings I can get away with for the scope. I'm also going to try shooting off the sand bags instead of the bipod. What would be a better ammo choice?
Lastly I'm going to see if the inaccuracies are coming from me in the form of flinching.
Thanks so much for your help fellas.
 
The first thing I'd do is throw those "high" rings you have in the trash. They are the Leapers rings that come with the Center Point scopes or you can probably buy by themselves. They are complete crap. If you don't want to buy another set of rings, I'd then mount the scope back in the original Weavers and cut the rail back slightly, so you can bring the scope back more. The Weaver rings are actually pretty decent rings.

This is the first thing I would do and it's not hard with some basic tools. Remove the base and put it in a bench vise with wooden blocks so you won't damage it. Support it just below where you will be cutting so the base doesn't twist or warp. Cut two full lugs off of the front of the base and file back to the third. You can use a hacksaw or sawzall with a metal blade but I recommend the hacksaw so you go slower and get a nice straight cut. You will be filing too but it's still nice to have as straight a cut as possible so you have less metal to even out.

This combined with the old rings will let you get lower and and the scope closer.

The rifle is going to kick no matter what, it's a lightweight 7mag. IMO unless you plan on shooting beyond 1200 yards regularly I'd rebarrel in a standard caliber or just buy another rifle all together. 308 if you don't reload, 243, 260, 6.5CM, 6.5x47L if you do. You're not going to get good practice when you're flinching at every shot and putting a brake on that barrel is a waste.
 
It's a $100 pencil barrel that most likely isn't going to shoot great no matter what you do to it. A decent brake with installation is $200 minimum, that's twice what that barrel is worth. If i had a rifle that wasnt shooting decent and i wasnt sure what was causing it, there's no way I'd dump more money into that barrel. Not to mention you're going to go deaf shooting it unless you plan to wear hearing protection while you hunt.

If you're going to zero at 250 yards for white tail hunting that tells me you have plans of taking 400 yard +/- shots on deer, you need an accurate rifle that you can shoot well to do that. If you can't get better than an 8" group on the range you're going to end up wounding animals when you factor in field conditions and a touch of buck fever.

I'd tuck the barrel away and get another one in a caliber more suited to the game. You don't need a magnum to kill Bambi, I started off hunting with 30 cal mags because I though deer were some sort of invisible creature and now I use 243, 257 Roberts, 308, and 270. I've never lost a deer with any of those and Ive killed deer with the 243 and 308 beyond 600 yards.
 
Taking your advice, trading the rifle for same model in .270. Making the swap Saturday.
 
It's a $100 pencil barrel that most likely isn't going to shoot great no matter what you do to it.

I don't agree with this at all. I've shot several of the Model 10's that shot very very well with the factory pencil thin barrels. When I say very well, I'm talking under .5" groups at 100 yards with handloads and .6-.9" groups with cheap Winchester Power Points or Federal Power Shoks. The downside to the super thin barrels is that they tend to get hot quickly and as that happens the groups start opening up. If you let it cool every 3-5 shots, these barrels can shoot extremely well.

That said, the .270 is a good caliber as well and in all honesty, I'd much rather have it than a 7mm Mag.
 
I have a 270 sporter take off barrel I would sell you if you wanted to keep your 7mm. I always end up putting match barrels on my Savages so I have a pile of sporters laying around.
 
I also did some more research and found that the scope itself was part of my problem when looking for mounting solutions. Because of the 50mm objective lens the scope only had 4.8" of mounting surface and thanks to cabelas awesome customer service I took back the redfield (that I bought 6 months ago) and they let me exchange it for a 3-9x40 Nikon buckmaster. Almost the same price too so I only came out of pocket $20. This Nikon is incredibly clear and I'm very happy with it. I'm making the swap tomorrow morning for the .270. I'll have a range report by the end of the weekend. Thanks again guys for all the advice.
 
I have a 270 sporter take off barrel I would sell you if you wanted to keep your 7mm. I always end up putting match barrels on my Savages so I have a pile of sporters laying around.

Where could I find a match barrel for the .270?
 
Start with your scope set up. You need to have the proper eye relief to shoot well. Do you have a full field of view when looking through your scope? Next you need to make sure the base is secured to the gun. dab a bit of thread locker to the screws and torque them down. do the same with your rings. If this doesnt get you shooting at least 2" groups you need to try another scope. borrow one or take one off another gun. Scopes are typically the root of huge groups at such a short range. Good Luck
 
Nice weapon...

If it were mine (drooling with envy) I'd add on a GRIZZLY GUN WORKS "Defcon 1" muzzle brake to reduce recoil by 60% (and eliminate dust signature too) as well as an "expensive" SPUHR one piece scope mount with built in bubble level.

And when it comes to your Savage rifle, you don't need another barrel. It's more accurate than you'll ever be... so save your money.

vfin
 
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