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Trouble with Redding Competition Die

D

drn1234

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 11, 2011
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Castle Rock Colorado
I am sure this is operator error.

I have the .338 .308 and .260 competition seating dies.

When I begin I thread the die all the way down until the die hits the shell holder. I back this off 1/8 or so turn and lock the locking ring down and tighten the set screw.

I then will set my seating depth. Lets say for example I want the OAL to be 2.980. I will micro adjust slowly down until the loaded round hits this dimension.

Off and running. I start loading and usually hitting 2.981 then i run it again and its there. All is good for a bunch of rounds, then out of the blue it will all of the sudden seat to 2.973 or 2.974. It will do this a few times. I back off the adjustment to get to 2.980 then a few go buy perfect then 2.986 or 87. Readjust goes along fine for a while then I run into the low side.

I got to the point when I run all the bullets at the first setting to get the most done at one adjustment then go back and fix the others.

What am i doing wrong? Shouldn't once you get your adjustment set (given nothing has come loose) it would seat them within +/- 1,000th for bullet nose differences?
Am I expecting too much form my die?

Here is the gear I am running.

RCBS press
Redding competition die.
New Lapua brass (never fired) (it will even happen with resized shot brass)
Berger bullets or Lapua scenar it does not matter.

Let me know if you need more info.

Thanks in advance for the help

Dave
 
Couple things. Your shell needs to contact the seating die. Instead of backing off an eighth turn, turn it an additional eighth turn to ensure positive contact every time. Second, oal will vary bullet to bullet due to ragged meplate cuts. If you're concerned about consistent oal it needs to be measured from the ogive, so get yourself some comparators.
 
Try leaving the loaded round in the shell holder and rolling it in your fingers 180 and do another seating. It might do the trick.
Xdeano
 
Thanks for the response!

I should have added that even with my Hornaday comparators I get the same issue.

In the redding instructions it says to not have contact. It mentions to set up, have it contact and then back it out until the micro adjust markings are facing you (about 1/8th turn). Do other dies recommend contact with the shell holder?
 
I always make sure i have enough throw on my press to contact the die. Consistent seating depths and no runout problems.
 
From the Redding Competition Seater instructions:

"The best set-up procedure is as follows: Place the shellholder and press ram in the uppermost position. Screw the die in place until the 'threaded die body'makes contact with the shellholder. (This will compress the sliding sleeve fully.) Then turn the die body counterclockwise until the micrometer graduations are in front for easy reading. This method will allow from .020" to .070" clearance and protrusion of the sliding chamber sleeve."

For the Forster version, they say to adjust the die so that the sleeve compresses 1/8"-1/4", when the ram is raised.

Chris
 
With the comp dies you do not want contact between the shell holder and the sleeve on the die. So backing it off an 8th is what you should do. You don't want to compress that sleeve.

A fl die yes. A slight cam over is what you want. Comp dies are a different animal.

Xdeano
 
xdeano said:
With the comp dies you do not want contact between the shell holder and the sleeve on the die. So backing it off an 8th is what you should do. You don't want to compress that sleeve.

A fl die yes. A slight cam over is what you want. Comp dies are a different animal.

Xdeano
Click to expand...

Read the instructions from the Redding manual that I posted above.

That sleeve should be compressed when the ram in raised, is the way I read it.

Chris
 
As far as I've read that sleeve is not suppose to compress against the shell holder. Fosters is the first to come out with the sleeved die and they also recommend not to compress. Call the company for the best answer.
Xdeano
 
If you are measuring from base to meplat, you will have variation. Seating depth should be measured with a comparator to insure consistency from round to round. If there is a variation at this point, it could be bullet ogive variation and I have experienced that. Here is a link to Redding FAQ regarding Competition Seater and OAL: Competition Seaters and COAL | Redding Reloading Equipment: reloading equipment for rifles, handguns, pistols, revolvers and SAECO bullet casting equipment
The instructions I read specifically state the sleeve should compress but you may read and check for yourself. As far as dealing with an ogive variation, I set the long rounds to the side and once I have finished all the seating, I adjust the seater to the remaining long rounds.
Good luck
 
xdeano said:
With the comp dies you do not want contact between the shell holder and the sleeve on the die. So backing it off an 8th is what you should do. You don't want to compress that sleeve.

A fl die yes. A slight cam over is what you want. Comp dies are a different animal.

Xdeano
Click to expand...


Are you thinking of the a sizing die?
 
4.0 BULLET SEATING PROCEDURE
Fosters instructions.
1. Create a prototype dummy round using the following procedure:
A. Ensure the Micro Body (MODL-30SM, MODL-30LG) is securely threaded to the Sleeve (O-30).
B. With the press ram and shell holder at their highest points, screw the die in the press until the bottom of the sliding Die Chamber touches the shell holder.
C. Continue screwing the die clockwise until you have fully compressed the sliding Die Chamber. Next, back it off at least one full turn because the Die Chamber should never be fully compressed when seating bullets.

So we've got a little cross explanation here. This is why being specific is best. I don't like pissing matches so I'm not going to push this. It isn't the point of the op and it isn't going to help the op anyhow.

Run your comparator on your bullets and do a double seat it should help.

Xdeano
 
You beat me to it. The sleeves ARE supposed to be compressed just not full travel.
 
I have the same issues with my Forster 308 seating die (set up per the Forster instructions). I use a stoney point comparitor on my calipers to measure all my rounds (never really use the OAL/meplat). The actual piece that centers/seats the bullet is spring loaded inside the die. Not sure if that spring is fully compressed when seating a round (you would think it should be). I have noticed that just because you set it for .003" deeper, you will not necessarily get that when reseating a bullet again. Sometimes I have to add .006" or so just to get it to press in another .003". No it is not a compressed load. Yes I have tried the rotating 180 degrees, slow seating, fast seating, multiple bump seating... I am using 175 SMK exclusively so you would think the ogive would be consistent for seating... I think you need to overcome the coefficient of static friction when trying to "reseat" a bullet which is more difficult. I would almost like to have something like a precision arbor press that you could dial in .001" and actually press it in .001".

I also have a Redding Comp seating die for my .223 that seems to be more consistent (but also has some variation - using 77 SMK). Not sure if that is because it is .223 or because it is Redding.... Both seating dies are very similar in operation/construction.
 
Also, don't forget to clean the dies. There may be some copper shavings in side that a skewing you seating precision.
 
Definitely cleaning the dies can be a big help. I try to clean mine every 5 batches of reloads. Amazing how much crud you find up in there.
 
xdeano said:
As far as I've read that sleeve is not suppose to compress against the shell holder. Fosters is the first to come out with the sleeved die and they also recommend not to compress. Call the company for the best answer.
Xdeano
Click to expand...

My Foster Micro Seater's instructions specifically state to adjust the die body proper so that the sleeve compresses 1/8"-1/4" when the ram is in the raised position, so I don't know why you keep repeating that both the Redding and Forster dies, shouldn't have their sleeves compressed in the upstroke.

Again, I might be missing something, but I've had both instruction sheets out in the last week and I'm pretty good at comprehending instructions.

Also, and this might be an issue for the OP, but unless you're using the VLD seating plug, most of these target bullets bottom out on the top of the seater plug, without having any of the plug mouth making contact with the jacket of the bullet, so it kind of wobbles in the plug, as the ram is raised.

This is the case for my Forster micro seater's plug, when seating .338 caliber 250gr SMKs and Berger 250gr OTM Hybrids.

Chris
 
Last edited:
Im not saying that the sleeve isnt suppose to compress. It is suppose to compress, just not all the way to the threaded body of the die.

Xdeano
 
I had the problem with my Redding seating die as OD does when the soft stem decided to expand. It wouldn't seat to the same depth on a regular basis. Take the die apart and see if the seater stem is sliding as smooth as it's supposed to.

Foster dies have a hardened stem that wont expand like the Redding.
 
xdeano said:
Im not saying that the sleeve isnt suppose to compress. It is suppose to compress, just not all the way to the threaded body of the die.

Xdeano
Click to expand...

Ok gotcha. I would agree that you're not supposed to FULLY compress the sleeve against the shell-holder/plate.

I was just confused with this:

As far as I've read that sleeve is not suppose to compress against the shell holder. Fosters is the first to come out with the sleeved die and they also recommend not to compress. Call the company for the best answer.

Xdeano
Click to expand...

And this:


With the comp dies you do not want contact between the shell holder and the sleeve on the die. So backing it off an 8th is what you should do. You don't want to compress that sleeve.

A fl die yes. A slight cam over is what you want. Comp dies are a different animal.

Xdeano
Click to expand...

You do have to 'load' the sleeve some and you need the shell-holder/plate to do that.

Chris
 
Correct! Sorry my verbiage was kind of confusing in those posts. Thanks for get us all on the same page.

xdeano
 
Thanks for the responses everyone. I clean the dies regularly, and will try some of the other suggestions.

I am also calling redding tomorrow and will let you know what hey say.

Dave
 
Same here………….

drn1234 said:
I am sure this is operator error.



Off and running. I start loading and usually hitting 2.981 then i run it again and its there. All is good for a bunch of rounds, then out of the blue it will all of the sudden seat to 2.973 or 2.974. It will do this a few times. I back off the adjustment to get to 2.980 then a few go buy perfect then 2.986 or 87. Readjust goes along fine for a while then I run into the low side.


Dave
Click to expand...

Really interested in the reply you get from Redding. I'm having the exact same issues with mine loading 40s&w. At first i thought something had to be wrong with my Dillon 1050…..even went as far as loading one round at a time and it still went nuts, around 10 rounds come out about perfect at 1.130 (+/- .001-.002) and all of a sudden it spits out some at 1.122. I replaced the Redding with the Dillon Seating die and things are close to spot on again.
 
I notice you are seating bullets with a long profile. The bullets may be bottoming out in the seater stem..thus seating off the meplat instead of ogive. Vld seater stems will correct the issue.
 
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