Gunsmithing Contact GAP? Yes, No, Suggestions

[bluto77]

I shortened the first post, and copied in my results from yesterday evening (same is posted below). I still need some assistance on this. All help is appreciated.

I bought a GAP .338 Lapua Mag from a member on snipershide. After receiving it, and before shooting it, I discovered that the bolt release was not functioning properly, and the bolt could not be removed the way it is supposed to be removed. I would like to fix this minor issue before selling it (possibly) to another member. I've been told by some people just to call GAP and they'll take care of it, but I don't want to bother them with a minor issue if avoidable. Many of you reading this sub-forum are gunsmiths, so I'm asking you, should I contact GAP with this? Should I take it to a different gunsmith locally? Or should I try to fix it myself (I'm no gunsmith!)

A little more info regarding the bolt release: It is a bottom release. Rem 700 action, old style Rem trigger tuned by GAP, AICS 1.5 chassis.

Took a look at it this evening, and I wasn't describing the issue accurately. It works perfectly whenever the barreled action is taken out of the chassis, but the bolt release lever will not go down far enough to let the bolt out whenever the barreled action is torqued down in the chassis. The trigger mounted lever does actually contact the bolt release lever exactly where it is supposed to from the start (pics below). The problem occurs when the action is torqued down in the chassis, when I push the button in front of the trigger to activate the trigger mounted lever, the trigger mounted lever pushes the bolt lever to a certain point, and then something stops the bolt lever causing the contact point of the trigger mounted lever to the bolt lever to slide sideways off of the bolt lever, which causes the bolt lever to stop moving just short of going far enough for bolt to release. I could actually feel it happen. To test that theory, I removed the action from the chassis again, put my finger over the area that the bolt lever needed to get to, and pushed down on the button that activates the trigger mounted lever. Whenever my finger stopped the bolt lever from completing the full motion, the trigger mounted lever kept moving and slid off to the side, but not completely off.

What's my next move? I could try to bend the tip of the trigger mounted lever slightly around the tip of the bolt lever so that it wouldn't slip to the side. The only problem there could be that it then may not press all the way up into the slot. Plus, I don't know that it would solve the problem anyway, as it seems something is stopping the bolt lever. I'm open to any and all suggestions.

Here are pictures of the trigger mounted lever meeting the bolt lever, bolt lever movement with and without the action installed in the chassis. You can clearly see where the lever doesn't go all the way down when the action is on the chassis. Trigger mounted lever contact point to bolt mounted lever. From the angle in the first 2 pics, the contact point as shown would slide to the right. The next 2 show from the side.

These are pictures of the top of the bolt lever release from the inside of the barrel with the action not mounted on the chassis. In the first pic you can see the bolt lever sticking up, and in the 2nd picture you don't see it at all because the bolt release button is pushed down, i.e., it's working properly.

These are pictures of the top of the bolt lever release from the inside of the barrel with the action mounted in the chassis. In the 2nd pic you can barely see the tip of the bolt lever, but it's just enough to stop the bolt from coming out (compare to the 2nd pic above). The 3rd pic is a side view with the bolt release button pushed all the way down, but you can see the lever doesn't go all the way down. Not working properly.

 

[BLDTYLRY]

Is this a Remington 700 action? Aftermarket Trigger? If you are mechanically inclined you can fix it yourself with a pair of pliers.

When I installed a Timney Trigger on my Rem 700 the instructions tell you to take a set of pliers and bend the bolt release tab so it makes contact with the lever.

 

[thrusty]

Do you know what trigger is installed? Do you experience the same problems when the barreled action is out of the stock?

Agreed with what BLD said above....
If it's a Timney, there is some minor bending you have to perform in order to make the bolt release work as intended....this is described in the Timney instructions that come with the trigger.
Any other manufacture...consult their instructions to see if they require the same thing.

 

[bluto77]

It's a Rem 700 action and an old style Rem trigger tuned by GAP. Issue does not occur when action is removed from chassis.

 

[Mgordon]

It should be an easy fix. I am sure the team at GAP would be happy to take care of you but here is what I would do. You need to take a small needle nose pliers and bend the trigger mounted bolt release lever a little. So to make it dummy proof.

Bend the yellow lever back toward the rear of the rifle a little. This should prevent the release from getting caught up on the bolt stop.

Mark

 

[jonaddis84]

Damn mark, I figured you would have drawn up a 3d model with animation to show what he needs to do!

Fix it yourself, or at least try, you cant really EFF it up too badly, at least I cant imagine how you could. Going to cost you probably $120 at least in shipping alone to get it fixed.

 

[BLDTYLRY]

Does the safety work when the action is torqued down? If not, When the action is out, activate the safety and you should see a pin protrude on the opposite side of the trigger housing. While the pin is sticking out, lightly file the pin down a ittle at a time until the safety activates when the action is torqued down.

I had to do this on my Rem 700 and AICS chassis.

 

[bluto77]

I'm 99.9% sure the safety does work with the action torqued down, but I'll double check that. I'm assuming that is something GAP would do before sending the rifle to the buyer though. But the original buyer may have only bought the barreled action and installed the chassis himself.

 

[bluto77]

Bump for update. I deleted the original 1st post because I found out I was describing the problem incorrectly. I also deleted some of my responses in order to consolidate the thread. Please read the OP with updated information from me working on the rifle yesterday evening.

 

[thrusty]

It's a Rem 700 action and an old style Rem trigger tuned by GAP. Issue does not occur when action is removed from chassis.

If the issue isn't occurring when it's removed from the stock/chassis, I might assume a fitting issue and not a problem with the trigger or action.
Something rubbing on the trigger group might leave some marks on the chassis that you might have to relieve....just a wild guess...

 

[bluto77]

That makes sense. Looking at the trigger housing, there are rub marks on it directly below where the bolt release lever comes down. I'm going to go out on a limb and say, whatever is leaving that mark on the trigger housing is most likely keeping the bolt release lever from coming all the way down. I've modified a carbon fiber Manners stock before, but not an AICS 1.5 Chassis. Not sure how to proceed with that, or if I should proceed with that.

 

[BLDTYLRY]

It's easier and cheaper to modify the trigger than the chassis. Just my two cents.

 

[bluto77]

Here's a picture of the trigger housing from the side while the bolt release button is being pushed. The bolt release lever is all the way down in the picture, and the bolt is able to move in and out freely. It looks like it stops before it gets to the area with the rub marks, but whatever is doing it could be sticking up higher than that and stopping it.

At this point, what would I modify on the trigger housing? It doesn't appear to have anything to do with the trigger mounted release lever.

 

[Thud]

Take some solvent to the trigger and lever and clean it up.
It looks like the release lever and lever is gummed up.
Remember NO OIL IN TRIGGER it attracts dirt.
Also open the area where the lever slide with a file you ain't gonna hurt anything.

 

[bluto77]

I'll do that, but both the trigger mounted lever and the bolt release lever are moving fine when the action is not mounted on the chassis. It was a little stiff initially, but once I worked it back and forth it moved freely.

 

[Hink]

If the bolt release works when the barreled action is not installed in the chassis, and the bolt release does not work when the barreled action is installed in the chassis, then the combination of the two pieces must be what is causing the problem.

Install the barreled action into the chassis without the bolt installed and attempt to move the bolt release (the silver lever in the photos) to the position where the bolt would release. If there is interference keeping the bolt release lever from actuating to the full "open" position(as shown in the photos above), the the bolt will not release. I'll bet there's a tolerance stackup issue immediately below the aft section of the action in the area of the bolt release lever, and relieving the interference will allow the bolt release to function properly. Some dychem or even sharpie marker can assist in either identifying the interference area or ruling the bt release lever out as the culprit.

 

[bluto77]

Thanks for the assistance Hink. I appreciate it. I've already done everything you've mentioned, except for utilizing a sharpie to ID the interference area. I'll tell you what I've encountered, and please elaborate on utilizing the sharpie based on said explanation. I may be repeating myself in part of the explanation, but please bear with me as I want to give you the most accurate description.

I have tested the bolt release in both scenarios with the action torqued to the chassis (65 in/lbs front and 45 in/lbs back) and the action removed from the chassis. When the action is completely torqued down to the chassis the bolt release does not function properly, and the bolt cannot be removed without using a credit card to push the bolt release lever down all the way so the bolt can pass over it. When the action is mounted on the chassis, but only loosely hand tightened, the bolt release does function properly and the bolt can be removed without the use of a credit card. When the action is removed from the chassis completely, the bolt release lever and the trigger mounted bolt release lever both work as they were designed, and the bolt can be removed.

I initially thought the bolt release lever was sticking somewhere inside the opening it passes through and/or the trigger mounted bolt release lever was not making good contact with the bolt release lever, so it was not engaging the bolt release lever far enough to make it drop completely into the opening and allow the bolt to pass over it and be removed (as stated in my original post that was edited to remove the erroneous information). That may have been part of the issue, but I took care of that last night by wiping down the bolt release lever with a small bit of solvent, working it back and forth through the opening, and ruled it out as the primary cause. I ruled out the trigger mounted bolt release lever contact point to bolt release lever issue by visual inspection.

Knowing that the bolt release lever is able to move freely though it's opening and the contact point between the trigger mounted bolt release lever and the bolt release lever, I mounted the action to the chassis to test again. First, I only loosely hand tightened (until screw stopped turning then backed it out half a turn) and the bolt release functioned properly. Then I completely hand tightened (but did not fully torque) the screws, and the bolt release failed to function. And when action was fully torqued down (65/45) it failed to function as well. After reviewing the trigger housing today, it is obvious that it is rubbing against something (paint is worn off/other side looks like that too), and that is likely the culprit causing the interference. In the latter two steps when the bolt release did not function, I could feel the trigger mounted bolt release lever continue to move after the bolt release lever stopped moving when I was pushing the button located in front of the trigger.

As you pointed out, there is obviously something interfering with the bolt release lever. I'm assuming that's what you mean by "tolerance stackup issue below the after section of the actoin in the area of the bolt release lever..." I agree that relieving the interference will allow the bolt release to function properly. Please elaborate on how I can use a sharpie to identify the culprit and/or rule out the bolt release lever as the culprit.

 

[Hink]

If you color the bolt release lever with sharpie, install and torque the barreled action into the stock, and attempt to remove the bolt, you'll have witness marks on the bolt release lever in the exact area where the interference occurs. If there are no marks (scratches) in the sharpie ink, there is no interference in that area so you can rule that specific section out.

Based on your comments both about paint missing from the trigger housing and using a credit card to actuate the bolt release lever, you may have already identified the area of interference. The bolt release slide on the side of the trigger may not have enough relief in the chassis to actuate through the entire range if travel. Just to be sure before relieving material in an area suspected of having an interference condition, I'd suggest checking by coloring the suspect area with a contrasting color sharpie and actuating the bolt release after torquing the action back into the chassis. Scratching on the sides of the trigger housing can occur when installing and removing the barreled action - it's better to check and be incorrect than to remove material unnecessarily and be flat out wrong.

You can also troubleshoot by removing parts one at a time - in this instance, try removing the bolt release lever and spring ONLY and reinstalling the action in the chassis. Attempt to actuate the trigger mounted bolt relase slide to ensure it travels through the entire range of motion. It's difficult to tell in your photos, but there may be a slight interference between the bolt release slide and the chassis when the action is torqued down. I would also want to know what has caused the finish removal from the fastener heads on the left side of the trigger housing...another indication of an interference condition.

Thanks for understanding my earlier comments even through misspellings - working off an iphone has that creative affect.

 

[A10XRIFLE]

Without looking at it Im only guessing But its probably hanging up on the molded stock sides of the AI Chassis. If you cannot get it figured out send it in.

Was is sold by us originally with the AI Stock, As someone stated above these have to be modified in some cases to clear the trigger,

 

[JC Steel]

I had the same problem with a couple rifles now. I used my premium 110V mill (dremel) and relieved a little spot for it. Now everything works perfectly!

 

[bluto77]

Thanks for weighing in on this George. I was wondering the same thing about who put the chassis on. If the owner did it himself, then it's simply an issue of the chassis never having been properly adjusted for the bolt release lever to function. That's an easy fix. However, if GAP originally sold the rifle with the AI chassis, then there may be other issues that are causing this one, they're more qualified than me to address them.

I've asked the guy I bought it from to find out about the chassis from the original owner.

 

[dinc]

Clearance, Clairance.

You could take the stop out and polish the sides on a flat of sandpaper, just to assure there is not a burr hanging off anything. Then take an x-acto knife or razor blade and carve a sliver off the skin where it sits over the stop. Give it some breathing room.

For final fitting, shoot it a lot. In the dirt.

 

[Sam Lin]

This is a fairly common issue with the L/A AICS chassis/Rem700 receiver combo. The release hits the chassis as it pivots out of the receiver to let the bolt out, resulting in it not being able to pivot all the way to clear the bolt. The easiest fix is to grind/sand the release (the long silver bar) on the side towards the chassis (bottom side as installed in gun) until it no longer hits.

Sam

 

[218bee]

+1 what dinc said...

 

[bluto77]

I got the issue resolved on my own. Thank everyone for their input and assistance. I know that, for the vast majority of guys posting on this thread, this was a pretty quick and easy fix, but for me, it was a little more than what I typically do on my own (hence the thread). I'm pretty happy with myself for being able to get it done on my own.

I ended up getting a dremel and taking a little bit off the bottom side of the bolt release lever as well as deburring the sides. Re-mounted and tried it, but no dice. So I then took the dremel to the chassis where it was making contact with the bolt release lever and shaved a little off there too. It worked perfectly after that. Here's some pics:

 

[VJJPunisher]

Id still call gap and just breath heavy on the phone

 

[psinclair]

Id still call gap and just breath heavy on the phone

Laffin'

Then send it to them and have them install a side bolt release. Trigger lever bolt releases are the biggest POS ever invented.

 

[bluto77]

I'm getting ready to sell it, or i would get them to do the side bolt release. It was like this when i got it, and i wanted to make sure it was working properly when i sold it.

 

[thrusty]

Nice work on getting it fixed bluto. Glad you were able to get it done.

 

[bluto77]

This essentially makes me a gunsmith now right???

 

[thrusty]

This essentially makes me a gunsmith now right???

Yep...but, save yourself (and all of us) some headache and only work on your stuff.