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Suppressors Titanium suppressor. Which one to get

varmint slayer said:
Has there been any side by side db level testing between all the cans you have listed? I would be curious to see just how much quieter the Mack Bros is in comparison to the others. Not trying to be a dick or to call you a liar or anything as I know you have a shit ton of cans and experience with a lot of different brand as models. Just curious if this has been done somewhere. Thanks.
Click to expand...

I get what you're saying. I am not upset that you want numbers. But let me present it to you this way: Would you rather a meter tell you what it sounds like or what YOU perceive the sound to be? Because from person to person we all pick up and sense tones differently. I DO NOT endorse long range sessions with just a suppressor and no ear pro. If you need to make a fast shot and don't have access to the muffs then ya you are fine to crack one off. But to lay down and shoot 20 or more shots is damaging your hearing. When I do lengthy range trips I put my ear pro on, then all the suppressors sound about the same.

I do have a video that was a test between a 6.5 Creedmoor running the Mack Bros can and a 6mm Creedmoor running a TBAC. I can upload if you think it will help you make a decision. But video is a poor conduit for choosing what does and does not sound better.
 
Maybe this will help: Keep in mind this is a Nikon D800 with small shotgun mic. This is not the ideal setup for deciding what sounds better.... but its what I have and I work with it.



The closest rifle is a 6.5 Creedmoor with the Mack Brothers MB300
The far rifle is a 6mm Creedmoor with a TBAC 30P-1

The closest rifle is going to sound "louder" because its closer to the shotgun mic. These style mics are focused, to where you point them on picking up sound. I have another video that was done pointing more level with the rear of the rifles. I can upload it next if people want to see it too.
The camera in this above video is pointed at the muzzles, increasing the sound. :D
 
KYS said:
I get what you're saying. I am not upset that you want numbers. But let me present it to you this way: Would you rather a meter tell you what it sounds like or what YOU perceive the sound to be? Because from person to person we all pick up and sense tones differently. I DO NOT endorse long range sessions with just a suppressor and no ear pro. If you need to make a fast shot and don't have access to the muffs then ya you are fine to crack one off. But to lay down and shoot 20 or more shots is damaging your hearing. When I do lengthy range trips I put my ear pro on, then all the suppressors sound about the same.

I do have a video that was a test between a 6.5 Creedmoor running the Mack Bros can and a 6mm Creedmoor running a TBAC. I can upload if you think it will help you make a decision. But video is a poor conduit for choosing what does and does not sound better.
Click to expand...

Yeah that was kind of what I was getting at. The difference in the way sound is perceived from person to person can really vary quit a bit so that was where my question came from. Basically weather the pitch is just a little different and it sounds quieter or weather there is actually a few db measured difference. PM me the link if you want as I know video doesn't do suppressors much justice but I would still be curious to see it. Thanks man!


EDIT: Never mind you beat me to the video link before I could type this response.
 
KYS said:
Maybe this will help: Keep in mind this is a Nikon D800 with small shotgun mic. This is not the ideal setup for deciding what sounds better.... but its what I have and I work with it.



The closest rifle is a 6.5 Creedmoor with the Mack Brothers MB300
The far rifle is a 6mm Creedmoor with a TBAC 30P-1

The closest rifle is going to sound "louder" because its closer to the shotgun mic. These style mics are focused, to where you point them on picking up sound. I have another video that was done pointing more level with the rear of the rifles. I can upload it next if people want to see it too.
The camera in this above video is pointed at the muzzles, increasing the sound. :D
Click to expand...


Yeah hell I'm down for any videos you want to post up. Thanks man!
 
I'll start posting videos to help answer questions.... as long as you all don't mind my southern speak ;)

Different angle.....

[video=youtube;3tiiZriDE-o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tiiZriDE-o&feature=youtu.be[/video]
 
I want a meter to tell me what is the lowest SPL

I want my ears to tell me what I perceive the lowest sound to be.

It's two prongs of the evaluation.

142db is too loud, even if my ears perceive it to be quieter than the 135db can.

Gemtech sandstorm
Tbac 30P-1
Shark

Can't go wrong with any of the 3.
 
TexasGunTrustLawyer said:
I want a meter to tell me what is the lowest SPL

I want my ears to tell me what I perceive the lowest sound to be.

It's two prongs of the evaluation.

142db is too loud, even if my ears perceive it to be quieter than the 135db can.

Gemtech sandstorm
Tbac 30P-1
Shark

Can't go wrong with any of the 3.
Click to expand...

Actually you can..... the Sandstorm is known to have one of the worst first round shifts of all the Ti cans on the market. Its not uncommon for the first shot thru the cold rifle is .2 right and .1 high.
I find that repeatability to be awful. After that shot it goes back to normal. But to do that every time is a design flaw.

So you are saying our ears will register louder DB on one item as more quiet then on another item? I can't see how that makes sense.
Decibel ratings are one thing..... tone is another. The tone of a can can be perceived as "more quiet" when it actually could be exactly the same on a meter as others.
 
KYS said:
The top 3 in Ti suppressors for sound reduction and accuracy are as follows:

1) Mack Brothers MB300
2) Thunderbeast 338P-1 or 30BA
3) AWC Thor Ti

I have all variations in use right now and I have been impressed with them all. They each have one small variable that can be a negative for me though.

The MB300 is super quiet! It is a lightweight design, right here with the TBAC cans and its lockup mechanism is outstanding. The downside (for me) are its a long suppressor and it heats up pretty fast so a cover will be needed for longer strings of fire. That has to do with is baffle construction, it just retains heat longer but that also lends to its superior suppression.

The TBAC 30 cal cans are really the top shelf can of the bunch but the one drawback is sound level. They are not the most quiet. I would rate them at just under (better reduction) the Surefire 762SS model suppressor in sound. But as far as accuracy they are awesome. They are by far my favorite thread on 30 can suppressor.

The AWC Thor Ti.... awesome suppressor (if you can find one). Again, they are the cats ass in a few different parameters of performance. They are the shortest OAL of the 3 I listed. Suppression is about on par with the TBAC.
Their accuracy is phenomenal. I have shot many extremely tight groups with that suppressor that just cant be duplicated with the can, I can't explain that part.

For my money its a toss up between the 3. The Mack is the more affordable of the three listed. All are excellent performers though. It's a hard decision to make. Just have to try and base it off what I listed with my experiences with them.

I want to add in one more that I have neglected to mention. Its Ti and magnum rated... the AAC MK12. It mounts over a 90t brake and is a very light can for the amounts of abuse it can take. The mount is solid unlike their previous offerings and the can flat out performs with 300WM and smaller cartridges. It might be the lightest of the bunch, but if I remember correctly it might be the most expensive.

Good luck on your choice.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much, that's what I was looking for. Every turn I made pointed to AWC THOR PSR or TBAC 30BA. If the TBAC and AWC are brothers from two different mothers, I think I'll save the extra$$ for ammo. The TBAC is magnum rated too, didn't thing about using it on a 5.56, goo to know! Thanks again.
 
KYS said:
Actually you can..... the Sandstorm is known to have one of the worst first round shifts of all the Ti cans on the market. Its not uncommon for the first shot through the cold rifle is .2 right and .1 high.
I find that repeatability to be awful. After that shot it goes back to normal. But to do that every time is a design flaw.
Click to expand...

Wow, I am on many gun discussion boards and this is the first time that I am hearing of this "Known" issue...and I own one.
 
I have an SRT Shadow XL but its the steel version. Got it a long time ago. Its a good can. Built like a tank.
 
mike in pa said:
Wow, I am on many gun discussion boards and this is the first time that I am hearing of this "Known" issue...and I own one.
Click to expand...

I'm glad you are on a lot of discussion boards...... but its a known fact actually. Frank (Lowlight) has even expressed his concerns for it in his videos.

I own two of them, they both do it. It's actually well documented among the owners of the can. Gemtech will even tell you to get 500 rounds thru the can before you can expect to see it disperse. That came directly from them at SHOT Show 2011.
 
Mike_Honcho said:
VS - I was referencing:

So many statements - so few facts...

If your going to spend the money on a suppressor you guys need to contact russ oliver with Operator suppressor systems. Ive seen there system and it is light years in front of any suppressors that ive seen.
Click to expand...

Mike, first you suggest that everybody is making statements....all without facts. That would be all of us......fact less.

Then you suggest we should contact OSS because they are light years ahead of any suppressor you have seen. That would be you....facts less.

Fine...perfect....

Lets do this Mike, you post one friggin fact.....just one.....one fact on any suppression parameter that is measurable or repeatable or in any way suggests anything tangible in anyway whatsoever about OSS's performance as compared to ANYTHING. Just one...ONE. One fact of you behind a trigger of any OSS can and one fact of anything that was the result of that. No barbie doll "mix-n-match" until you screw together enough parts to get something that is just so divine.....Something that would survive a PSR drop test, compete on dB, have astonishing small POI shift, be the lightest in the best-of-class, strongest in best-of-class, quietest in best-of-class, win a competition, meet a price point in best-of-class, etc., etc. etc. anything, Mike.....a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g.

In the meantime.

There are some GREAT cans out there and some good folk that have been hammering with them since washers were made of leather.....that right there, that is a fact.

http://www.snipershide.com/2010/07/thunder-beast-arms-shark-suppressor-gemtech-sandstorm/

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-suppressors/120428-feedback-awc-thor.html
 
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Repeatability first. Suppression second. I'll trade 5db for .1 POI all day long.
 
RollingThunder51 said:
Mike, first you suggest that everybody is making statements....all without facts. That would be all of us......fact less.

Then you suggest we should contact OSS because they are light years ahead of any suppressor you have seen. That would be you....facts less.

Fine...perfect....

Lets do this Mike, you post one friggin fact.....just one.....one fact on any suppression parameter that is measurable or repeatable or in any way suggests anything tangible in anyway whatsoever about OSS's performance as compared to ANYTHING. Just one...ONE. One fact of you behind a trigger of any OSS can and one fact of anything that was the result of that. No barbie doll "mix-n-match" until you screw together enough parts to get something that is just so divine.....Something that would survive a PSR drop test, compete on dB, have astonishing small POI shift, be the lightest in the best-of-class, strongest in best-of-class, quietest in best-of-class, win a competition, meet a price point in best-of-class, etc., etc. etc. anything, Mike.....a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g.

In the meantime.

There are some GREAT cans out there and some good folk that have been hammering with them since washers were made of leather.....that right there, that is a fact.

Thunder Beast Arms, Shark Suppressor & Gemtech Sandstorm

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-suppressors/120428-feedback-awc-thor.html
Click to expand...

I have to agree with RT here.....

And another note on OSS suppressors..... I have seen them first hand. I inspected their "craftsmanship" and can tell you from what I saw, they are not something I would spend a dollar on. No two cans were similar in measurements and they all were the same model.....
I listed my top three. Take a pick and you wont regret any of them.
 
Appreciate that KYS...

Enough Said, I want to pick up on your statement. I think it is a foundation concept that prioritizing performance characteristics for a given can is at the heart of any "what is best" discussion. Having said that, I would say to you, one does NOT have to give up 5 dB (more than a doubling of perceived sound) to achieve best-in-class POI performance. In fact, THAT is the point. If the question is what can suppresses sound and flash well and still has excellent POI, well we can begin. The great misunderstanding of POI is that almost any POS can will deliver improved POI performance if you just keep opening up the projectile pathway. In other words, if one is giving up TWICE the suppression value for an improved POI result is that because the can is louder as a result of overbore. In some cases, dB performance suffers because critical real estate if given up for QD. Is that bad? Not if precision AND dB suppression is not required. The truth of it is that cans that have made the list as described by many here DO NOT give up dBs for best-in-class POI result, just the opposite. How come? Well, in the case of the at least two of KYS's three identified cans they employ fully face fashioned symmetrical baffles that are set permanently into their armature through the use of expensive and time consuming production techniques....welding. These very same cans provide for a truly precise baffle to projectile flight pathway that also happen to provide superb suppression. In other words, many can producers cannot hold these tolerances and make up for that by overbore. In fact in titanium, the modulation of the higher frequencies (Ti ring) is part accomplished through these very same assembly processes. And we haven't even broached the subject that many superb marksmen simply do not care in the least about POI shift if it is repeatable. Nor should they necessarily need to.....We will save that for another day.

Now, I sat back on this thread until the end here because the OP's original posting gave me no indication that he himself had a clue what he wanted out of his suppressor. That is not a knock, but it would mean that a whole host of questions would have to be asked before one could give a good answer....for HIM. Example....he is not a precision shooter. He rarely shoots more than 150 yards. He is more likely to shoot rapid fire schedules or maybe is likely to dump a C-Mag on auto more often than not. He plans to shoot .22s through this can. Or his concern is strictly sound suppression, or strictly flash suppression, or maybe his barrel profile is so thin that he has to consider weight, or he has to purge environmentals out of his can faster than most....or none of the above. Does it matter? You bet it does. In the world of cans and buyers, the most successful buyer KNOWS or at least has a good sense of what they require from their can. That person stands the best chance at achieving real success.
 
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+1 for Thunderbeast.. You can't beat the can, and the owners are great people.
 
Nice videos KYS! I watched those over and over again and I honestly can't tell a difference in the recorded sound. My experience is that to accurately record or even just measure gunshots you need specialized and expensive equipment.

One thing to note, if you're comparing a 6mm and 6.5mm version of the same parent cartridge, the 6mm one will have significantly higher muzzle pressures. When loaded to the same peak pressure levels, the more overbore cartridge will sustain its pressure curve longer in the barrel and will retain a higher exit pressure as the bullet uncorks.

And RollingThunder51, I always get a kick out of your posts about fully fashioned baffle faces and the expense required to "set permanently into their armature"-- welcome to our world.

Good shooting everyone..

Zak
 
Ring said:
SAS is great.... i have the yhm Ti... no issues and sounded better then the guys shark at the range...
Click to expand...

Not trying to call you out about this but I have to disagree with that. The Shark cans have a very distinct sound that can be perceived as "louder".
But it no way is the YHM Ti Phantom more quiet. I have much experience with both cans.
 
Zak Smith said:
Nice videos KYS! I watched those over and over again and I honestly can't tell a difference in the recorded sound. My experience is that to accurately record or even just measure gunshots you need specialized and expensive equipment.

One thing to note, if you're comparing a 6mm and 6.5mm version of the same parent cartridge, the 6mm one will have significantly higher muzzle pressures. When loaded to the same peak pressure levels, the more overbore cartridge will sustain its pressure curve longer in the barrel and will retain a higher exit pressure as the bullet uncorks.

And RollingThunder51, I always get a kick out of your posts about fully fashioned baffle faces and the expense required to "set permanently into their armature"-- welcome to our world.

Good shooting everyone..

Zak
Click to expand...

I agree Zak. You would need some very fancy video and sound equipment to perceive sound thru video. Plus most people on the other side of the screen do not have the audio equipment to play it back properly. You would be talking a pretty serious sound system of the high caliber.

Under stood on the pressure. The TBAC can performs, there is no question about that. It has a little higher resonance then the Mack can, but the Mack can is a physically larger suppressor. The TBAC suppressors are one of the most accurate cans I have ever owned. I really enjoy mine and I will always be a big TBAC supporter.
 
I would have to agree. All recorded sound is useless. Perhaps, if one can one hear the supersonic signature of the projectile after the suppressor signature, well, that recording is unusually accurate and of somewhat better for "comparative" studies.

Even direct dB readings are essentially worthless.
 
KYS said:
The top 3 in Ti suppressors for sound reduction and accuracy are as follows:

1) Mack Brothers MB300
2) Thunderbeast 338P-1 or 30BA
3) AWC Thor Ti

I have all variations in use right now and I have been impressed with them all. They each have one small variable that can be a negative for me though.

The MB300 is super quiet! It is a lightweight design, right here with the TBAC cans and its lockup mechanism is outstanding. The downside (for me) are its a long suppressor and it heats up pretty fast so a cover will be needed for longer strings of fire. That has to do with is baffle construction, it just retains heat longer but that also lends to its superior suppression.

The TBAC 30 cal cans are really the top shelf can of the bunch but the one drawback is sound level. They are not the most quiet. I would rate them at just under (better reduction) the Surefire 762SS model suppressor in sound. But as far as accuracy they are awesome. They are by far my favorite thread on 30 can suppressor.

The AWC Thor Ti.... awesome suppressor (if you can find one). Again, they are the cats ass in a few different parameters of performance. They are the shortest OAL of the 3 I listed. Suppression is about on par with the TBAC.
Their accuracy is phenomenal. I have shot many extremely tight groups with that suppressor that just cant be duplicated with the can, I can't explain that part.

For my money its a toss up between the 3. The Mack is the more affordable of the three listed. All are excellent performers though. It's a hard decision to make. Just have to try and base it off what I listed with my experiences with them.

I want to add in one more that I have neglected to mention. Its Ti and magnum rated... the AAC MK12. It mounts over a 90t brake and is a very light can for the amounts of abuse it can take. The mount is solid unlike their previous offerings and the can flat out performs with 300WM and smaller cartridges. It might be the lightest of the bunch, but if I remember correctly it might be the most expensive.

Good luck on your choice.
Click to expand...

KYS....Any experience with the SAS Vengeance Ti. Have you shot it or know of someone. There's only 2 times SAS has been mentioned on this thread, either time bad but nothing in terms of performance. It looks like the only ones MH is offering and from the experience I've had with MH I would guess they are quality suppressors. Your thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks
 
Pleistarchus said:
KYS....Any experience with the SAS Vengeance Ti. Have you shot it or know of someone. There's only 2 times SAS has been mentioned on this thread, either time bad but nothing in terms of performance. It looks like the only ones MH is offering and from the experience I've had with MH I would guess they are quality suppressors. Your thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks
Click to expand...

I only have time behind the Ti Arbiter. They are good cans, nothing to go crazy over. A very simple design, Ti tube. They suppress 30cal and the sub calibers very nicely.
 
KYS said:
I'm glad you are on a lot of discussion boards...... but its a known fact actually. Frank (Lowlight) has even expressed his concerns for it in his videos.

I own two of them, they both do it. It's actually well documented among the owners of the can. Gemtech will even tell you to get 500 rounds thru the can before you can expect to see it disperse. That came directly from them at SHOT Show 2011.
Click to expand...


Like I said this is THE ONLY discussion board that I am hearing of this "known" and "documented" issue, so like other things on this board, they need to be taken with a grain of salt.
 
mike in pa said:
Like I said this is THE ONLY discussion board that I am hearing of this "known" and "documented" issue, so like other things on this board, they need to be taken with a grain of salt.
Click to expand...

It almost sounds like you are calling me a liar..... I don't know what boards you are on but the case is documented here with over 80K members and on Silencertalk.com
That seems like a pretty grand stage to collect some info from.




Like I said, I have two of the suppressors and they both do it.
 
I own severel different SAS cans and have spent time behind all of them. When you actually compare them to anything on the market in POI shift, accuracy, repeatability, sound suppression,weight and cost you will find its as good or better than anything going. Since KYS has an Arbiter, through it in the mix. I have seen the TBAC club here praise it and would love to see how these compare with SAS. I am not that far away so I could even come by and through a Reaper in the mix.
 
Unfortunately JET has decided to fall off the map with their lack of customer service and contact methods.
You're damn right they are ready to take your money but getting the suppressor you paid for is another story!

I wouldn't mind to do a comparison between a TBAC 30P-1 and SAS Arbiter. If there is a demand for it.
You guys just throw some stuff at me and if I can help I will try and video it. Just remember, don't judge a suppressor by the way it sounds on a video.
 
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Thunder beast 30BA. Love mine. Quiet and no poi changes.
 
Kino said:
KYS is your Arbiter DT, TOMB or QD?
Click to expand...

Direct thread. It's what was in stock when I called. I have a strict rule for myself when purchasing NFA items.... buy IN STOCK items only. Waiting on a manufacturer could mean you wait double the time before it even arrives to your SOT. :D
 
KYS said:
Unfortunately JET has decided to fall off the map with their lack of customer service and contact methods.
You're damn right they are ready to take your money but getting the suppressor you paid for is another story!

I wouldn't mind to do a comparison between a TBAC 30P-1 and SAS Arbiter. If there is a demand for it.
You guys just throw some stuff at me and if I can help I will try and video it. Just remember, don't judge a suppressor by the way it sounds on a video.
Click to expand...

good to know, I last bought a suppressor from them around 5 years ago. give or take.
 
I'd like a video comparing the 30P1 and the SAS Arbiter...preferably the same rifle from the same position, with 2-3 shots each can with video taken from side, rear and front.

Ya know...since you asked about demand for it. :D
 
BoilerUP said:
I'd like a video comparing the 30P1 and the SAS Arbiter...preferably the same rifle from the same position, with 2-3 shots each can with video taken from side, rear and front.

Ya know...since you asked about demand for it. :D
Click to expand...
I'd like a comparison as well...and throw in the Reaper for fun too. I know since it's a shorter can it will not only sound different, but probably suppress less, but I'd still like to hear it.

Edit: Upon closer reading I was getting Kino and Kys' usernames mixed up and who owned what. I'd still like a comparison of whatever you can do on video with SAS suppressors.
 
Last edited:
BoilerUP said:
I'd like a video comparing the 30P1 and the SAS Arbiter...preferably the same rifle from the same position, with 2-3 shots each can with video taken from side, rear and front.

Ya know...since you asked about demand for it. :D
Click to expand...


Can't do same rifle. That would almost triple the time it takes to do the videos. Letting them cool down enough to take them off is time consuming.
I am willing to do videos similar to the ones I have already posted. Same caliber, same barrel length, and shot from right in front of the muzzle.
 
KYS said:
Can't do same rifle. That would almost triple the time it takes to do the videos. Letting them cool down enough to take them off is time consuming.
I am willing to do videos similar to the ones I have already posted. Same caliber, same barrel length, and shot from right in front of the muzzle.
Click to expand...

I's just funnin' ya - hence the smiley. He who owns the toys, makes the rules, and all that...

Seriously though, a video comparison between both cans would be greatly appreciated by many here, myself included. Thank you for offering to do this!
 
Oh yea KYS...oh yea...how lucky are you?

I just might happen to have the required can in the exact same situation.....remember? The can specially prepared for the Cerveceria Schneider raid?

A lesson to us all!

Click on the this....

 
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