Deciding on a reloading equipment

[wwrhodes91]

Hello everyone. I am putting together a wish list for reloading equipment. I anticipate it being a few months before I will actually buy everything, but I would like some input on what I have put together so far. I could probably go $100-150 more on budget if needed. I have absolutely no experience reloading, and this list was compiled from recommendations from this forum and others. Thanks!

 

[dustinoif3]

I would remove the hand press and add an rcbs rock chucker press. Also if your loading for a bolt gun you won't need the lee factory crimp die. I would also add a bullet tray and possibly re-think the digital scale and go with a beam scale. I have a digital to check pistol charges on the dillon but when im hand loading 308 i like to trickle on a beam scale. Everything else looks good though.

 

[Genius.]

Ditto, I'd get a beam scale.
I wouldn't trust a $30 digital scale with nothing to check it against.

I've never used a hand press, but using one for 308 doesn't sound like much fun, I'd spring for a bench mind press.

 

[pinsandpitons]

+1 on the above comments. Buy the best press and scale you can afford. They are the things you'll be spending the most time with and have the most effects on success. If you're handy a 1/2" forstner bit in some 3/4" plywood makes great trays and you can make as many as you need. I would also spring for a good digital caliper. (just my preference) In general I would double the final price tag, in the end you'll spend less. Buy once, cry once.

 

[Gunrunner100]

I have a dillion for the pistol calibers, and looking to add a single stage to do rifle on, I agree with the idea of using a bench-press as opposed to a hand-press for the bigger shells. Making good quality reloads isnt difficult just remember the basics and, dont rush, and be consistent!

 

[insight3b]

Here is what I started on and am still able to produce extremely accurate loads:
Lee Classic Loader 308 Winchester
A caliper and a decent scale is all that is needed to produce extremely accurate ammunition but it only neck sizes so its really only safe for the rifle that the cases were originally fired in.
For around $150 total including the cost of components you can handload several hundred rounds

 

[gixxer822]

Tumbling? chamfer/debur? ditch the hand press. ditch the universal shell holder cuz lee dies already come with tht. I wouldn't trust a 30 dollar electronic scale. if your not goin to neck size all the time you can get the lee pacesetter die set and tht comes with the factory crimp die. using tht trimming die in the hand press would be a major pain in the ass. lee makes a decent case length gauge for trimming tht works.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

Definitely start with a beam scale, and I would buy digital calipers. Rock Chucker has a nice starter kit, that will get you started quite nicely, heavy press, beam scale, powder drop, trickler.....

 

[P7id10t]

I don't use a crimp die on my 308 for my AR10. Get a used Lee. They work, you can upgrade later to blue, green or other red brand, and generally can be had for less than $75 used.
Powder trickler is also a waste. You can use a spent brass casing (I use 338LM) filled with powder to fill your scale pan quickly and accurately.

Welcome to the OCD world of reloading!

Plus, where are you located? Generally you can find gun boards local to where you are and Hide members live everywhere....

 

[Beyschaefer]

If it was me, knowing now what I DIDN'T know then...

Rockchucker press, or other similar "O" frame press from Redding, Forester, Lyman, etc. Cast iron frame preferred over aluminum.

Replace the Hornady spray lube with a tin of Imperial Sizing Die Wax. I use and like the Hornady lube for 80% of everything, but if you only want ONE lube, the Imperial is it. It will have to be applied with your fingers, so if you're the dainty type, stick with the spray lube

Beam scale rather than digital - a digital the equal of a beam scale is still pretty expensive.

The Lee dies aren't BAD, per se, but they are "budget" dies. You might want to consider spending a few extra dollars on RCBS, Forester, or Redding dies. (not nesc in that order). The dies are really the heart of the process, and if you're after top-notch reloads, a little extra spent on the dies will be worth it. You can "upgrade" to a precision seater, etc, later, but having a good set right up front is nice.

You CAN prime with your press, but it gets old... You might not want to buy one immediately, being on a budget, but start looking at priming tools like the Lee or RCBS hand priming tools. The Lee is almost universal, but takes special shellholders, while the RCBS is harder to swap out the shellholder, but uses standard press shell holders. Like I said, not nescessary right off, but start shopping now... it'll probably be one of the first things you want to upgrade when you get financially recovered.

I would also grab an RCBS inside-outside case mouth deburring tool. Even though the Lee supposedly does that as part of the trimming, it's cheap insurance to do just a quick twist with the deburring tool as part of your inspection process.

Hope this helps!

 

[Pinecone]

I agree with single stage press and beam scale. Digital calipers can be had for $15 or so, check Harbor Freight and other sources.

Also look for used. Check Craigs List for local people selling complete setups for a LOT less than new.

Lee, RCBS, Hornady, and Lyman all have starter kits. All work well. Lee tends to be cheaper.

 

[Beyschaefer]

Oh... the other thing I noticed you don't have listed is a powder measure...
The one thing I can say with athority: skip the Lee or Frankford Arsenal all-plastic measures.
Look for a good used RCBS or Redding (etc).

I think we're pushing your budget a little bit....

 

[Beyschaefer]

About calipers;
Digital doesn't make them any more accurate... it does make it easier to read.
If you're comfortable reading a dial, get the dial. If you're not, a digital is fine.
Don't spend any extra money on one or the other if you don't have a preference.

 

[wwrhodes91]

Thanks for all the responses! Can you please tell me why I couldn't use the hand press? I did swap the scale for a redding balance and I added a hand primer and digital calipers.
Insight3b, could you explain how exactly I can get the full set up for under $150 with the Lee Classic Loader 308 Winchester Sorry I'm kind of getting lost now.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

I don't use a crimp die on my 308 for my AR10. Get a used Lee. They work, you can upgrade later to blue, green or other red brand, and generally can be had for less than $75 used.
Powder trickler is also a waste. You can use a spent brass casing (I use 338LM) filled with powder to fill your scale pan quickly and accurately.

Welcome to the OCD world of reloading!

Plus, where are you located? Generally you can find gun boards local to where you are and Hide members live everywhere....

Never really thought about using a case for trickling....I often use a bowl-shaped coffee mug--Dunkin-Donuts---and a measuring spoon when doing load development. Often you find yourself doing 3-5 rounds of each charge weight, and to use a dump for these is time consuming to set up, so I use a cup and spoon to measure out the powder into the scale pan. With a little work, you can get a feel for weights of powder, and it goes quite quickly measuring this way. You get a feel for how many granules to add or scoop out of the scale pan to correct the weight. This is a cheap way to go also. You want a thin metal measuring spoon, as that makes it easier to grab just a couple granules of powder at a time...

 

[Sniper Uncle]

Thanks for all the responses! Can you please tell me why I couldn't use the hand press? I did swap the scale for a redding balance and I added a hand primer and digital calipers.
Insight3b, could you explain how exactly I can get the full set up for under $150 with the Lee Classic Loader 308 Winchester Sorry I'm kind of getting lost now.

No reason why you can't use the hand press----some competitive shooters load at the firing line, and use those tools. But, if you spend a little bit more and get a good O-Frame Cast Press----I use and recommend the RCBS Rock-Chucker, which comes in at least two starter kits, so check out starter kits as the total value is up for less money----you can then resize cases much easier, and can use them for all but the largest of rifle cases. The bigger presses have much more leverage, and make even a hard resize job much easier. The thought is that if you buy one of those first, you will always have it, even when you upgrade. So, unless you want to load at the shooting bench, which I don't recommend you start off doing, then you might want to think carefully about why you want a hand press versus a good O-Frame Press. I personally suspect that you will try the hand press and quickly see the need for a good O-Frame Press, and regret not starting with one right off the start line....

 

[wwrhodes91]

So right now all the components together cost $280. A Rock Chucker press would put me at almost $400. Do I need to bother with a head-space gauge?

 

[rdinak]

The only time i have ever had a stuck case was using Hornady one shot lube. You might want to consider imperial sizing wax instead.

 

[wwrhodes91]

Also, I'm curious to know what the price per round of .308 you guys are getting by handloading. I figured around $.7 or so assuming 5 uses per case. This is with Varget/Re-15, CCI primers, Winchester brass, and 175 gr. SMK.
I also calculated that I only need to shoot about 400 rounds of reloads to completely cover the cost of the equipment when compared to the price of shooting FGMM.

 

[427Cobra]

Get a real press, any RCBS press will work, cheaper the better buy a used one off E-gay or Craistlist, plus 1,000,000 on imperial sizing wax, add a Hornady headspace gauge to set up your Full Length die with, in this world electronic wonders a old school balance beam scales are king.


Again I highly recommend a Headspace Gauge, the instructions that come with most FL dies are best used as emergency shit paper, use the HSG to measure fired cases, adjust the FL die to bump the shoulder .001-.0015 for bolt guns, and .003 for semi autos.

 

[Pinecone]

I use Dillon case lube. It is lanolin and alcohol. If you want to save some money, you can buy both at the drug store and mix your own. 1 part lanolin to 10 parts alcohol.

The bench press will be SO much better and easier. And more versatile. Realize, we all started out and tried to save money. And learned the hard way, as for many of us, there was no internet to get help from.

Also, the single stage O press is a lifetime investment. You can literally pass it down to your ancestors. They don't wear out.

I like the Lyman and one of the Lee presses as they have a longer ram stroke for the longer magnum cases.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

I use Dillon case lube. It is lanolin and alcohol. If you want to save some money, you can buy both at the drug store and mix your own. 1 part lanolin to 10 parts alcohol.

The bench press will be SO much better and easier. And more versatile. Realize, we all started out and tried to save money. And learned the hard way, as for many of us, there was no internet to get help from.

Also, the single stage O press is a lifetime investment. You can literally pass it down to your ancestors. They don't wear out.

I like the Lyman and one of the Lee presses as they have a longer ram stroke for the longer magnum cases.

I don't know about you, Pinecone, but my ancestors came before me---my descendants will inherit my Rock-Chucker. the Rock-Chucker Supreme will do all the magnums---just not the 50BMG.

 

[insight3b]

wwrhodes91,
With the Lee classic loader all you really need is a wooden mallet or chunk of 2X4 and you can load your components into ammo from brass fired through the same rifle. There is even a little yellow scoop that as long as you follow the included load chart you don't even need to weigh your powder. So if you really want to handload 100 pieces of brass the first time with the lee classic this is what you are looking at:
Lee classic loader $27
100 175gr SMK $35
1lb RE15 $30
100 primers $6
So for $98 you can load-up 100 rounds and the next 100 are only $71 as long as you use the same 100 pieces of brass and haven't lost your chunk of 2X4

 

[P7id10t]

+5 to everyone's suggestion of Craigslist. I picked up an old RCBS Rock Chucker I off a gent on my local gun board for $50. It won't do my 338 Lapua but it will do everything else.
One guy off Craigslist was selling 2 Pacific presses for $75. The deals are there if you're patient.

 

[Madzooki]

I use a pacific press that my dad picked up 20 years ago at a garage sale for $15. That also included .38 pistol dies and 1000 .38 slugs and some other misc stuff. I have an older press that is probably from the 40's or 50's that is beefy as hell, my current lee dies just don't fit it.

Look arou d the deals are out there.

Paul

 

[SDmtnbkr]

I just went through the same exact thing! It's SOO confusing when you don't understand the process! But I was lucky enough to find a local mentor that took me under his wing and it's crazy how much I've learned over the last few weeks! Trust me, once you start actually loading all these little things will make sense. Take a look at my thread from only a few weeks ago as it has a TON of the useful info you need:

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...match-ammo-$800-reloading-equip-supplies.html

On the last post I give a detailed description of everything I ordered and am now using and why (in newb language) you need it. I'll break out what I posted so you can see it here:

I was actually gonna start a whole new thread!!

But for those of you who helped tip my desicion into reloading you'll be happy to head that after seeing this thread and seeing that I'm local Ted here took me under his wing and has been mentoring me in Reloading!! He's gone WAY above and beyond to help get me started and teach me so much i couldn't imagine how long it would have taken me to figure this stuff out! I def have a long way to go, but thanks to Ted I'm well on my way and have already done my first load development for my rifle!!

For starters, since this thread was originally about reloading equipment and to help any other weary shooters searching for tips to get into reloading... let's list what I've gotten!

After working with Ted for a couple weeks and learning what I actually needed, not what I thought I needed (and had no idea what they were in the first place) this is what I ended up with along with my brand spanking new to reloading take on it.

RCBS Reloading Kit:
Best kit for the buck IMO, I really liked the feel and build of the rock chucker press over the Lee or Honrady. This kit comes with all the starting essential like press, 505 scale, powder measure, priming tool, reloading manual, chamfer & deburring tool...etc.

Redding Master Hunter FL/Seater die set:
This is the main dies you'll be using to size your brass and seat the bullet. I went expensive cause I have the dough to spend and I like to buy things once, plus I'm aiming to build the more precise rounds possible. I've read TONS of people that get away with Lee's basic dies

Lee collet neck sizer die :
This is used to form just the neck as I didn't want to use a bushing die set

RCBS Shell holder x 2
You need these for your press and priming tool, i just got 2 for ease

Tumbler:
this is what cleans your brass for the next go around

RCBS Stuck case remover:
This is insurance for if I brain fart and don't lube a case and it gets stuck in my press. It's basically a little kit to tap and remove your stuck case if you forget to lube it when resizing. There's some dies that don't need lube, and certain types of dies don't use it (like if you're just depriming) so know if yours/or that type of die does!

One Shot case lube:
Lube you cases BEFORE sizing your brass! **some exceptions apply, but not with my dies

Berger Reloading Manual:
Buy a manual, I liked this one... in hard cover.... cause hard covers are cool in my book

Kinetic Bullet puller:
This helps me when I seat my bullet to low and need to pull it out a little, or if you need to take down a bullet for some reason (like if during your load development you reach your pressure limit and have rounds that you've made that are too hot for you gun... or knock a bunch of load development rounds over on the table and now you don't have any idea what each round has.

Lyman Universal Case Trimmer w/pwr adapter:
You need to trim your brass every so often, I'm very OCD and Anal so I really liked this precision trimmer as apposed to one of the hand help cheap ones. PLUS after only 50 rnds with the hand crank (on Ted's older one that I was using) I was ready to drop extra cash on one with a power adapter! My fingers were killing me and I have some tough Helicopter Mechanic fingers! lol

Hornady Comparitor Tool & Accs:
Ok this was the hardest to get my brain around! You DON'T usually size bullets from the tip to end (bullet Meplat to case Head) you size it from the widest part of the bullet (the Ogive) which is where the bullet rides the rifling in the barrel. Which would be ridiculously hard without something like this tool. So you need this to do that and with an other Headspace adapter you can measure case length from the Head (the primer side) to the Datum (umm... more confusing, and I can barely understand this concept let alone tell someone else so look it up) which is half way up the shoulder. Sinclair makes a stainless steel version but it's out of stock everywhere on the planet in .308, so I got the Hornady one with the extra bottom anvil... cause i'm OCD

Digital Caliper:
Get one! The cheap $20 Chinese ones are surprisingly very accurate, but me being me, I got a cheap one until I can find a good deal on a nice Starrett digital one! I think the Mitutoyo ones are a littler nicer and would easily spend the money, but I really love that the Starrett's are the only precision calipers still made completely in the USA!


Ok so here's the breakdown:

RCBS Reloading Kit $319.00
Redding FL/Seater die set $115.00
Lee collet neck sizer die $22.00
RCBS Shell holder x 2 $8.00
Tumbler $77.00
Berger Reloading Manual $27.00
RCBS Stuck case remover $19.00
One Shot $10.00
Bullet puller $15.00
Lyman Trimmer w/pwr adapter $110.00
Hornady Comparitor Tool & Accs $45.00
Digital Caliper $25.00

Total = $792

You could cut out $75 on cheaper dies, and $50-$80 on the trimmer and be down close to $600. The kit comes with tons of useful tools and is perfect for what I need. Oh and I bought the Berger manual before the kit so you don't need that either -$27 more.

My notes about the items are from one reloading newb to another to help understand what they are.... clearly not the best explanations, but if I'm incorrect please let me know so I can change the descriptions.

ALSO.... I made a calculator (because I'm OCD) to figure out exactly how much each round costs me. I used more expensive Lapua brass but in the end, it damn near pays for it's self because you can reuse it more than cheaper brass. He's how my tracker/calculator looks:

Casing- Powder -Primer/1k- Bullet
Lapua- Varget -Tula - 178gr A-Max
$0.75 - $28.90 - $55.00- $0.35

Reload- Total Rnds- Rnds/Lot- Price/Lot- Overall Cost/Rnd- Total Cost
1 50 50 $67.35 $1.35 $67.35
2 100 50 $29.85 $0.97 $97.20
3 150 50 $29.85 $0.85 $127.05
4 200 50 $29.85 $0.78 $156.90
5 250 50 $29.85 $0.75 $186.75
6 300 50 $29.85 $0.72 $216.60
7 350 50 $29.85 $0.70 $246.45
8 400 50 $29.85 $0.69 $276.30
9 450 50 $29.85 $0.68 $306.15
10 500 50 $29.85 $0.67 $336.00

500 $336.00 $0.67


These are all prices I paid within the last 2 weeks SHIPPED to my door with taxes and totals added. No Joke absolute cost. I used this calculator (Handloading Cost Calculator) to figure out the cost per batch of 50. Basically the first batch is the most expensive because of my brass, but after that I don't factor it in at all. So if you got your hands on some cheaper brass you could just change the price of the first batch of 50 rounds to reflect that.

This forum messes up my format but if you send me your email I can send you my Excel spreadsheet so you can see it how it's supposed to look. But basically with 10 uses from the Lapua Brass (I've been told I can get them to 15 if I treat them nicely) It will end up costing me $0.67 per round or $336 for 500 rounds for BETTER than factory precision loads. I bought 10 lbs or Varget that's why it was only $28 because the hazmat fee was spread over the 10 canisters, and I bought 500 rounds of the A-Max.

***sorry for the crazy long post, hope it helps you out some.

 

[wwrhodes91]

Thanks for the good post SD. I'm still doing some research but I'm going for a little cheaper than you, right now I'm looking at $380 for a 100% complete set of tools.

 

[Beyschaefer]

Well, this won't put you under budget, but it would fill MOST of your list of "required" items...
I know some folks don't like doing business on/with eBay, but here's an RCBS starter kit that would leave you a set of dies and a few odds and ends short.
RCBS 9361 Rock Chucker Supreme Single Stage Master Reloading Kit | eBay

Not the perfect deal, but not a bad one...

 

[insight3b]

Here is the best kit I've seen in awhile all you need is dies:
RCBS Reloader Special-5 Explorer Plus Single Stage Press Kit
This is the only kit I've ever seen that includes a caliper and for some reason it has a Nosler manual by far the best kit I've seen in a long time and the best I can figure an actual hand-loader compiled it and not some guru from marketing and sales