for .308 Winchester 1000 yard 168 or 175 grain and why?

[trickyric]

I am not sure if this is the right forum for this question but I will ask.
I shoot a Remington 700 SPS AAC-SD. It has a 20 inch barrel and 1:10 twist. I shoot it suppressed.

Currently I load a 175 Sierra HPBT with 43.5 varget and I use Federal match primers.
I am getting 2535 Fps with this load.
It is very accurate at 100 and 565.
What I am wondering is if this bullet is stable enough at 1000 yards or if the 168 is better. Or, maybe another load.
I also did a ladder up to 44.5 grains but the velocity really didn't increase that much. (I thought maybe the suppressor was affecting that.)
Any information would be appreciated.
Ric

 

[rangerroy]

I'm getting 2540 out of my loads and I shoot 175s and have had no issues out to 1200yds. All though I think the 168s are a great projectile, I've had problems getting consistent results past 700-800yds with them, so I stick to 175s and 43grs of Varget recipe which seem to be the sweet spot for my rifle. Your mileage may vary based on your environmentals and rifle dynamics.

BTW - I've pretty much got the same set up as you.

Sent from my Samsung S3 using Tapatalk2

 

[trickyric]

are you shooting suppressed?

 

[Niles Coyote]

Search on 168 stability 308 1000

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en...08,d.aWc&fp=95dfef2fd06ecd3b&biw=1280&bih=968

 

[Facemelter]

168 grain bullets cant take the jump from supersonic to transonic speed. The pressure wave makes them a little wobbly as the bullets starts to slow down. Since 175's have more weight,they can usually handle the jump to transonic speed easier without losing to much accuracy.

I shoot 168's,but im only shooting at 300,I can do 400 yards but its not often right now with hay season.

 

[Rob01]

All 168s aren't the same. The AMAX does better at long range than the SMK.

 

[trickyric]

interesting stuff.
Does anyone know if the suppressor makes a difference?

 

[Niles Coyote]

No, its the design of the 168 SMK, namely the boat tail angle. There is a thread that Bryan Litz (ballistician) goes into detail on the why... I will see if I can find it.

When I first started shooting its what I used and in my atmosphere it was good to 800, after that I'd start seeing erratic results... some days I could push it to 900 but not always. If you are shooting at a few thousand feet above sea level or at a fast enough velocity (keep it above mach 1.2-1.3 at the target) it may do fine at 1000 but when the 175 smk works better and the price is the same or very close, why bother.

 

[Niles Coyote]

Here it is, enjoy

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...allistics/176236-just-bought-litzs-books.html

 

[40xs]

When I first started f/class I was using a 20'' 308 ltr with 168 smk. It was hard to reach 2600fps. I switched to 175. A little better but was still getting reports from the target pit that some of my bullets were still coming over subsonic. I notice you are from Florida so you are at about the same level of elevation that I am. It's a little easier to stay supersonic at higher elevatons. that's why we get varying reports from guys saying they have no problem with their loads with such and such powder and bullets from the western states. I started using a 24 inch barrel and with 45gr. varget and 175 and on windy days I would still get reports from the pit that some of my bullets were going subsonic. Just a suggestion, if you can find some 185 berger juggernauts try them because they are designed to be loaded long and with your liberal remington chamber and 10'' twist it just might be enough to get you to 1000yds. I went from 43.8 varg. and the 185vld to 44.2 in my gun by changing to the juggernaut and my new barrel has a match chamber. Yours should have even more room. I wouldnt buy too many at one time because it's still an experiment, however I feel you will see an improvement.

 

[pawprint2]

The Sierra loading manual has some actual Doppler radar produced info regarding 168's at range, done by the U.S. Army- everything else is just a guess or an interpretation, the radar results (measuring the flight path in increments equal about twice the diameter of the bullets base throughout the entire flight path) give the user unprecedented accuracy and understanding the true flight characteristics of a given round in flight.

 

[CleanMoostang]

Im using a SPS Tactical, 175gr SMK, 44gr Reloader 15, 20" 1-12tw and getting around 2551fps and this is my group at 1K. I need a 30moa base as I am out of elevation and having to hold over 1mil so its hard to get a good view of the target as I only have a 3-12 Bushnell Elite Tactical, but you get the point. It groups OK give the suckiness of the factory rifle.

 

[40xs]

Cleanmoostang, your 11.7mils equates to exactly what my 42 moa was when I was trying to get to 1000yds with the 168smk. By going to a longer barrel and a different bullet I came down from 42 moa to 29 moa. a giant difference. It got me down out of the clouds and more competitive, lol.

 

[Aimsmall55]

To the op, fwiw, I shoot a little sps tactical, mostly for hunting, but took it out to 925 yards a few weeks ago for fun. My MV was right where you are. I was shooting a 175 Berger vld. I checked out the plate afterwards and all bullets hit straight, meaning they were all stable. It is a little more difficult with slower MV but absolutely doable. Go with the 175's.

 

[Niles Coyote]

Don't discount the 168 A-max, they work well in my tactical

I present my best 900 and 1000y group to date out of this rifle. Notice what a slight gust at 600 can do at 1000.

 

[TAF070]

I have shot 175smk to 1200 from my TRG 22 20" with a Elite Iron Bravo suppressor using 44.5 gr IMR 4064 varget and RL 15 using federal match 210 primers. I averaged 2650 with varget 2678 with RL 15 and 2692 with IMR4064 all three performed surprisingly well at 1000 and beyond with 175 smks. You should have no problem.

 

[bh-ltr]

I shoot 175SMK's out of a 20" LTR using 44.5g of Varget an Federal primers. This combination produces 2563 fps and while I'm falling out of supersonic right at 1K I've gotten consistent hits out to 1147 when I get good wind calls. Target was an 18"x20" humanoid. I didn't measure group sizes was just going for ding count and wind practice. I know that 1147 doesn't sound like a lot more than the 1K mark but when you're launching these 175's out of a 20" tube that extra 150 yards is quite a bit.

My dope to 1K on this load is just shy of 12mil last time I was there. I was dialing 12 to get hits but they were a bit high. My software and data card claim 11.8mil (40.5MOA). This was at a DA of about 1500 ft.

~Brett

 

[Justinsaneok]

Just got a 700 AAC sd intrested in where this is going due all the 118 LR brass and 175gr smk bullets i have left. I was shooting them out of my ar 10 308 2.80. Coal 46.2 gr CFE 223 put me at 2650 FPS @10' out of a 16" barrel none the less. Looking around on here has me wondering what this AAC sd is going to be able to get done.

 

[Justinsaneok]

Just got a 700 AAC sd intrested in where this is going due all the 118 LR brass and 175gr smk bullets i have left. I was shooting them out of my ar 10 308 2.80. Coal 46.2 gr CFE 223 put me at 2650 FPS @10' out of a 16" barrel none the less. Looking around on here has me wondering what this AAC sd is going to be able to get done.

It was 46'F at the time.

 

[ballistic1]

My buddy and I shot our 308's at 940yds & 1066yds, temp was 89F @ 1200'.
We shot Fgmm 168 & 175's at both distances.
The 168's shot fine at 940, but landed low & sideways at 1066.
The 175's shot fine at both distances. We have giant cardboard backer surrounding
the gongs at these ranges, and it captured the bullets landing sideways.

 

[dustinoif3]

My buddy and I shot our 308's at 940yds & 1066yds, temp was 89F @ 1200'.
We shot Fgmm 168 & 175's at both distances.
The 168's shot fine at 940, but landed low & sideways at 1066.
The 175's shot fine at both distances. We have giant cardboard backer surrounding
the gongs at these ranges, and it captured the bullets landing sideways.

So both bullets were tumbling? What twist are the barrels?

 

[ballistic1]

So both bullets were tumbling? What twist are the barrels?

The 175's had no problem.

The 168's were stable at 940 yd, but went transonic/ unstable at 1066yds.

Test rifle was a 12twist Krieger barreled 308.

At 1066yds, the 168's never hit the gong.

I plan to try the 168's at 1066 yds, thru my 11twist 308, just to see what
differences, if any, there might be.

 

[dustinoif3]

The 175's had no problem.
The 168's were stable at 940 yd, but went transonic/ unstable at 1066yds.

Test rifle was a 12twist Krieger barreled 308.

At 1066yds, the 168's never hit the gong.

I plan to try the 168's at 1066 yds, thru my 11twist 308, just to see what
differences, if any, there might be.

I see. I just developed a load for my 12 twist sps with 175smk and 178amax. Both charged with 44.5. They both shoot great out to 300. Need to stretch out like you are. The 175 clocks 2581 average and the 178's are at 2531. I had a pretty good size es at 40 though. I just recently started uniforming pp and deburring flash holes. Need to chrono again to see if it helped. I had been previously shooting the 168's. 800 was the farthest I took them. Consistently banging steel. Hell they may have been banging base first. Bahahah

 

[Huckleberry75]

Anyone tried the Berger 168 Classic Hunter? It has a G1 BC of .496 which is the same as a 175 SMK between 2800 & 1800fps, whereas the 168 Amax has a G1 of .475.

The SMK has a BC of:
.462 @ 2600 fps and above
.447 between 2600 and 2100 fps
.424 between 2100 and 1600 fps

 

[stangguyaz]

I've been shooting some practice F class matches with a 26'' barreled 700 and a 22'' barreled ar10 both consistent 10 ring hits at a thousand yards with 175smks and 44gr varget and 155palma match with 42.5 gr both are cracking loudly over the pits and punching good holes but the 155s are greatly affected by any wind I pretty much shoot the 175 smk now the bergers are just to expensive for someone that doesn't compete all the time which is me.

 

[eli polite]

I'm currently setting up to reload for my .308 I have been doing a lot of reading on here as well as google. Sometimes over research can be the cause of the problem!

Rite now I am shooting FGMM 168's just stock ammo with good results out to 300 yards. The thing is some time in the next week or so I will be trying to buy 500 bullets to start working up a load for 500-1000 yards a few weeks ago I was sure that the 168 was the way to go but after reading the equivalent of a short novel I am thinking that the 175's are the way to go.. I just don't want to WAIST! money making mistakes others have made I believe in learning from others mistakes I don't need to spend the money failing where others have failed before. I have a tikka t3 tactical factory 24" barrel. I'm looking forward to reloading but I,m nervous to. may be I should not...