Hello from sunny CA

[TimActual]

I wanted to say hi to you all, I'm Tim from CA. I figured I'd throw a California story in here if you're interested. So if you're bored out of your nut, feel free to read on. Otherwise, pleased to meet you folks.

Admitting I'm from ca, strike1? I hope not. Let's just say it's not the easiest state to shoot in. I sometimes go out to the Mojave desert to shoot my Colt AR-15 which I've owned for around 25 years, (the gun, not the desert). Very scary assault weapon! Hea. On one particular occasion I met a patrolling BLM ranger, not uncommon out there. He told me that I was lucky that I had my rifle's paperwork with me, (DOJ registration), or he would have seized my rifle from me post haste, adios pistola. "Just don't bring it back" he said somewhat authoritatively. Needless to say I was devastated. I mean, isn't this the land of the free? "No citizen, it's not! Welcome to California."

Not to be detoured, after I got home and stopped crying, I phoned up the 'assistant special agent in charge' of BLM law enforcement. He sits up in Sacramento. Very Nice guy. He told me that as long as my rifle is registered and I don't bring any high cap mags, (I guess they give you the first 10 hits as a courtesy), that the BLM treats it as any other legal rifle.

So I went on to email the local BLM office that's in the jurisdiction where I shoot and mentioned my conversation with the head shed. After a bit of back and forth we are now all brother's in arms. Although I bring a print-out of the emails with me just in case.

Note: Actually I have a lot of respect for my law enforcement brothers. They are like anyone else, and I'm sure that none of them know every law or policy. But the point is that it's not a friendly State to be in when shooting is your hobby. I hope you enjoyed the story and I look forward to incessantly picking your brains until you get tired of it and kick me out.

Owner of Savage 10BA, Nightforce Benchrest 8x32 56, and other cool kit.

Best regards,
Tim

 

[17874]

Tim you can have the high cap mags with a registered assault weapon. After all it's a REGISTERED ASSAULT WEAPON!! The Ranger and his boss don't know what they are talking about.

 

[Dogtown]

Welcome. Yep, it's pretty common for LEO not to know the details of the firearms laws unfortunately. BLM land in CA is absolutely wonderful and the kind of thing people back East and the South complain about The steps you took were the right way to go - best to engage with a good attitude and help educate in the process, without being paranoid or a dick about it.

 

[blair]

Welcome - Wow, the stuff I hear about Cali. Kudos for taking the lead and preparing yourself with the information needed to continue the legal pursuit of your hobby. I sure hope this Trayvon case down here doesn't send us over the cliff when it comes to gun restrictions.

 

[Cartman]

Interesting tale Tim. Did you ask if they could cite any laws on some of these assertions? First, I'm not aware of any California law that says you need to carry your DOJ registration paperwork with you. Second, I'm not aware of any law that says you can't use your standard capacity magazines that you owned prior to the ban. In fact, I'm darned nearly positive there's no California law that says either thing (yet). Did they say there was a specific federal law for each assertion? Or were these federal policies on BLM land? Or just stone cold bullshit made up by the ignorant gun hater that bothered you?

Welcome to the hide and try not to have thin skin around here. Don't talk politics -- though that will seem tough because between state, local, and federal, it seems they want to regulate about anything anyone might want to do. And whatever you do be sure you've got a strong stomach before you open a picture post by Shankster. Unless, fat ugly chicks are your thing. In that case you'll be happy.

And what part of the state are you in?

Finally, was "deterred" the word you were looking for?

 

[Kreeper]

Welcome i am new to the hide also, what do you guys think about a 20 day wait and an interview by doj for my trg42..thats what happened to me 4 years ago..

 

[TimActual]

Hey guys, sorry, I have been checking my email for replies to my posts, this one and one another. I don't believe I received email on this intro posting, probably just the way the site is programmed, or perhaps I missed the emails, so I didn't think anyone had replied. Nevertheless I would like to thank you all for responding! It's late here and I am going to call it a night, but after reading your posts I want to answer ya'all back. So I'll hit this again this weekend and write a bit more about the BLM situation. Hey, thanks again for your greetings and talk to you soon.

 

[pattimusprime]

Hey there Tim. Fellow Californian here and newbie to the site as well. Your story about shooting on BLM land is a little shocking to me as I've considered going out there with my AR-15. It's good to hear others experiences though and I applaud the way you handled the situation. I might just stick to the ranges(which are closer to my house anyways).

Welcome, and I'm sure we will both be learning a lot from this wonderful forum!

 

[M40_A1]

He told me that I was lucky that I had my rifle's paperwork with me, (DOJ registration), or he would have seized my rifle from me post haste, adios pistola. "Just don't bring it back" he said somewhat authoritatively.

Enforcing laws that don't exist is not only illogical, but outside his authority as well. Don't let dummies rain on your parade, there's no shortage of them. Remember, you're innocent until proven guilty. No law against it, you're free to do it. Make him clearly cite any law he intends to enforce. After all, he has to write the statute on the citation anyway. Have fun on your BLM land, and avoid smokie when possible.

 

[TimActual]

17874, I know that I'm able to possess the 30 rounders, BUT I think the law states you have to have the receipts. Like yeah right. My friend gave them to me when I bought the rifle from him over 20 years ago for crying out loud. This one is a matter of picking one's battles. Not that big of a deal to me, that one. Must say though that the AR does look even meaner with a big honkin mag sticking out of it!

 

[TimActual]

Welcome. Yep, it's pretty common for LEO not to know the details of the firearms laws unfortunately. BLM land in CA is absolutely wonderful and the kind of thing people back East and the South complain about The steps you took were the right way to go - best to engage with a good attitude and help educate in the process, without being paranoid or a dick about it.

Hey Dogtown, yeah, that is pretty much me. I try as best I can to keep the emotion out of it, and focus on what my goal is. Initially it was to keep my beloved Rifle. Especially as that's the only material thing I have from my dear friend Larry that passed away due to cancer. It would have killed me to lose that rifle. I just didn't want to risk it. We had a bunch of guns that day where my buddies made sure I had a good weekend. My thoughts are that unless you are one of them, you will never win an argument with a law enforcement officer, and rarely win a discussion. I know you guys know the same and are just venting your feelings in support of me and I really appreciate that.

 

[TimActual]

Welcome - Wow, the stuff I hear about Cali. Kudos for taking the lead and preparing yourself with the information needed to continue the legal pursuit of your hobby. I sure hope this Trayvon case down here doesn't send us over the cliff when it comes to gun restrictions.

Hey Blair, unfortunately I just don't see it getting any better out here. Sheesh, the irony of it is every time Diane Feinstein or potus open their pie hole to even mention gun legislation it results in the gun industry making a few more billion dollars. Upon joining here I was advised to stay out of politics. From my standpoint I'll just say that it really bothers me, while having a snow white criminal record, that I would have to be afraid to go have a safe and sane fun day out in the middle of nowhere (desert).

 

[TimActual]

Interesting tale Tim. Did you ask if they could cite any laws on some of these assertions? First, I'm not aware of any California law that says you need to carry your DOJ registration paperwork with you. Second, I'm not aware of any law that says you can't use your standard capacity magazines that you owned prior to the ban. In fact, I'm darned nearly positive there's no California law that says either thing (yet). Did they say there was a specific federal law for each assertion? Or were these federal policies on BLM land? Or just stone cold bullshit made up by the ignorant gun hater that bothered you?

Welcome to the hide and try not to have thin skin around here. Don't talk politics -- though that will seem tough because between state, local, and federal, it seems they want to regulate about anything anyone might want to do. And whatever you do be sure you've got a strong stomach before you open a picture post by Shankster. Unless, fat ugly chicks are your thing. In that case you'll be happy.

And what part of the state are you in?

Finally, was "deterred" the word you were looking for?

Hi Cartman, I'm going down the list here and see it was you who advised against speaking politics, as I mentioned that in my last reply. That is sound advice probably world wide! I will heed it.

First off I would like to thank you for making me feel welcome, I appreciate that bud.

As for the law, I did read it in it's entirety, although it has been a while now and I'm pretty sure that you are indeed required to carry your registration papers with you, much like a car registration. The officer didnt quote code numbers or anything like that, but rather he was actually pretty nice about the whole thing. He thought that the law was that even after seeing my paperwork, that he could still confiscate my rifle because I couldn't use it on BLM land, but he said to just put it away and leave it in the case.

So that was cool from my standpoint. He just didnt know the law, and I was the first person who he had ever run into that actually had papers on him. Heck though, I have to wonder how many guys lost their rifles by that guy confiscating them.

Oh, as you asked, I am down in Riverside CA. Right in the middle of all the cool stuff to do in Southern California.

PS, I'll be sure to watch out for Shankster, who I haven't had the pleasure of meeting yet?

Thanks again Cartman man.

 

[TimActual]

Welcome i am new to the hide also, what do you guys think about a 20 day wait and an interview by doj for my trg42..thats what happened to me 4 years ago..

Hello Kreeper, thanks for the welcome and right back atcha. DOJ... at that time the biggest thing I had to do was to go get fingerprinted. So wow, you were interviewed? How did that go?

 

[TimActual]

Hey there Tim. Fellow Californian here and newbie to the site as well. Your story about shooting on BLM land is a little shocking to me as I've considered going out there with my AR-15. It's good to hear others experiences though and I applaud the way you handled the situation. I might just stick to the ranges(which are closer to my house anyways).

Welcome, and I'm sure we will both be learning a lot from this wonderful forum!

Hello pattimusprime and thanks for the welcome. Same to you bud. Hey, I know how you feel about being hesitant to head out there to the desert. The rub is, where in SoCal is there a +1,000 yrd. Range? And even if there is one, which I certainly don't know about if there is, after you shoot there a few times the challenge will begin to diminish.

When I wrote to the BLM ranger it was back in 2007. I haven't been out there much since then after getting married and all, and even when I did I didn't have the pleasure of running into a ranger. So I never have been challenged for the paperwork yet, since the one time.

Shooting out in the desert is a great experience and I would hate to think that we are not taking advantage of that resource out of fear. If you would like to go out there however, to be safe I would give them a call to see what they say about their policy. I just told them that I have a clean record, I will just be target shooting, will be respectful of people and wildlife, and will be picking up mine and other people's brass. But most important, take names for reference!

A little hot out there now, but once fall rolls around good times may be had.

If/when you're thinking about going out there let me know. It's a little wild out there and always good to go with a group of guys, safety in numbers.

Thanks again,
T.

 

[TimActual]

Enforcing laws that don't exist is not only illogical, but outside his authority as well. Don't let dummies rain on your parade, there's no shortage of them. Remember, you're innocent until proven guilty. No law against it, you're free to do it. Make him clearly cite any law he intends to enforce. After all, he has to write the statute on the citation anyway. Have fun on your BLM land, and avoid smokie when possible.

Thanks M40 for the reply and advice. I know how you feel man.

Here is what really concerns me about the law enforcement community. I know a deputy sheriff and talked to him about this issue. He has been a cop for many years and has worked for and with many agencies. He told me that what can and does happen is you may run into a cop that basically illegaly confiscates your weapon. He said that if that were to happen, that you will most likely never see that weapon again. That it is nearly impossible to ever get it back, even though they took it unlawfully. How about that for majorly sucking!

 

[65guys_steve]

Welcome to the Hide. I moved out of So Cal in the late 80's and never looked back. Everytime go visit friends and family I get to see first hand why I don't miss it. California used to be such a nice place to live.

 

[TimActual]

FF, yes and no. The things that have changed I believe are just a reflection of population growth and immigration. My town was historically part of the citrus belt. My pastime back in the day, once I got my drivers license was to cruse through the orange grove back roads. I loved doing that. The groves are pretty much gone now. However, there is so much to do here. We have the ocean, ski resorts, the desert, amusement parks, great museums like the Huntington Library, year round great climate. To turn the clock back you have to go north, more laid back and more nature up there. However, why the heavy handed gun control atmosphere I don't exactly get it, other than as I said, we now just have a really dense population. I do miss the old days though.

 

[Cartman]

As for the law, I did read it in it's entirety, although it has been a while now and I'm pretty sure that you are indeed required to carry your registration papers with you, much like a car registration. The officer didnt quote code numbers or anything like that, but rather he was actually pretty nice about the whole thing. He thought that the law was that even after seeing my paperwork, that he could still confiscate my rifle because I couldn't use it on BLM land, but he said to just put it away and leave it in the case.

Tim, you may want to research whether or not you need to carry your California registered assault rifle paperwork with you. While it may be a good idea to avoid hassle from cops, I believe you'll find that is not the law. If you can find a law to the contrary that would be news to thousands of gun owners.

Moreover, I believe the officer was wrong about registered assault rifles on BLM land as well. "Persons have the permission of the Bureau of Land Management to possess and use firearms, including lawfully registered assault weapons, on BLM-administered public lands, except when prohibited by other applicable laws and regulations." Hunting on public lands in California - Bureau of Land Management

Look at "f": California Penal Code Section 30945 - California Attorney Resources - California Laws

Welcome to the wild and wooly world of dealing with poorly informed LEOs while shooting in California. Looks like things are going to get even tougher soon.

 

[TimActual]

Hello again Cartman. Hey, thanks for those links. I will read up on them latter tonight, but likely even more importantly I'll print and carry them with me, (perhaps my get out of jail free card). You pretty much hit the nail on the head, that is the worry, an over zealous LOA that doesn't know the law. I'm not trying to say that they all are that way, but some yes. To give them some understanding, if I was in that position I suppose I would want to confiscate weaponry too. But if you are going to take someone's personal property, you need to know the law. I haven't heard of any cases of people having registered rifles taken. It would be interesting to find out. For sure if that ranger would have returned and I had been shooting it after he said not to, he would have unlawfully confiscated it and I would never have seen it again. I can tell you that he called in my rifle's serial number and verified the registration over his com, so obviously they are able to reference a database to verify ownership.

 

[Cartman]

Hello again Cartman. Hey, thanks for those links. I will read up on them latter tonight, but likely even more importantly I'll print and carry them with me, (perhaps my get out of jail free card). You pretty much hit the nail on the head, that is the worry, an over zealous LOA that doesn't know the law. I'm not trying to say that they all are that way, but some yes. To give them some understanding, if I was in that position I suppose I would want to confiscate weaponry too. But if you are going to take someone's personal property, you need to know the law. I haven't heard of any cases of people having registered rifles taken. It would be interesting to find out. For sure if that ranger would have returned and I had been shooting it after he said not to, he would have unlawfully confiscated it and I would never have seen it again. I can tell you that he called in my rifle's serial number and verified the registration over his com, so obviously they are able to reference a database to verify ownership.

Are you saying he called it in over his radio rather than looking it up over a data terminal? I'll let you read the law on that for yourself. Kind of makes you feel like you're at the mercy of an individual's whim doesn't it? CAL. PEN. CODE § 12288.5 : California Code - Section 12288.5 Obviously there's an exception if he caught you out there breaking the law. Were you arrested or were any actual crimes pointed out by the guy? I wasn't there so I don't know what happened.

 

[TimActual]

Cartman-- Yes, he used his radio and apparently whomever he was speaking to did a search and I suppose that the records verified that I was the legal registered owner of my rifle.

Basically I was with 5 guys and about 15 various rifles and hand guns. My rifle was the only one that he focused on during his weapons check. It was still in it's case, I hadn't even pulled it out yet. My rifle was the only piece of artillery that I had brought out that day, and in fact the only gun I owned at the time.

All this kind of crap has a lot to do with me purchasing my bolt action Savage M10 BA. Bolt action equals no-hassle. EXCEPT, of course if it's a .50 cal. Where a .50 apparently will kill someone deader than say a .338.

 

[Cartman]

I believe the statute I cited was created to protect innocent shooters from having their info broadcasted over a radio so that someone with a scanner won't know that Tim ___ whatever your last name is a highly desirable target for a break in. So much for that huh? It may not protect you from being harassed, but you may want to check out all of the resources over at www.calguns.net Though a lot of people post incorrect information in the threads, eventually someone with the straight story will post a citation. The links, FAQs, and flowcharts may be very helpful. Moreover, you may want to talk to the people from the Calguns Foundation about your situation. It APPEARS (I highlight that as I cannot know for sure what happened so don't construe this as me making a definitive legal or factual conclusion about what happened at your incident) several things went wrong when you were stopped. The Calguns Foundation may want more details so that their attorneys can contact the department involved (you already have the right email addresses no?) to point out the law and help make sure someone doesn't get their gun improperly taken from them or their personal information broadcast over the airways in the future. Thanks. And I'm probably close enough to you to meet up if you ever need company shooting so keep in touch.

 

[TimActual]

Hello again Cartman,
Wow, you bring up some things I hadn't thought about. The radio snooping indeed could lead to exactly what you described. Yikes.

The thing about lodging a complaint is that this all happened about six years ago. My actions in response to what happened for all I know may have precipitated some sort of internal memorandum that the assistant special agent in charge had gone on and sent out to all his officers.

When I spoke to him he didn't strike me as some redneck tuffy, much more the opposite. He was very helpful and understanding. He helped me out, told me what I wanted to hear, and even thanked me for calling that to his attention wishing me happy shooting, like from one shooter to another.

The field officer was official acting but didn't try to intimidate me, just told me to not use the gun, but said it in a non threatening manner. Keep in mind it was him with one female officer, who I got the feeling he was training, and us, five men that he didn't know from Adam, that were armed to the teeth.

So I don't really have a beef with the BLM. But, would I like to be better prepared for the next time I go out there? You bet. That said, I'll check out calguns.net. Sounds like from what you describe that that would be a great resource for me. Thanks for that tip.

I'll tell you what the BLM's A.S.A.I.C told me when I had called him up in Sacramento CA. He said: The BLM treats registered assault weapons, those that are on the banned list, the same as any other rifle. So, as long as you have your paperwork, are not shooting plants and animals, or doing anything unsafe, and are cleaning up before you leave, you are free to shoot and have a good time. He said that basically just follow the rules for target shooting with a regular rifle and you'll be fine.

So with all that said, thanks Cartman for the offer to shoot together. I just may take ya up on that after this summer is over. When I do go out there I always try and go with several people. The place I go is pretty much on the path that is used by the coyotes coming up from Mexico, the human ones. Not a place to be alone in your tent at night cleaning your weapon!

 

[Cartman]

Six years ago? Wow. Well that's what I get for skimming through these threads so quickly. Sorry if I missed that bit of info somewhere above. Still, you probably learned something. There's a lot of guys here who know plenty so you'll find the Hide helpful. There are also a lot who are only interested in being funny or busting your chops. I can only hope I cover all the bases.