Night Vision PVS-22 Question

[Fongman]

To those that have worked with a PVS-22, how satisfied are you with image sharpness. I'm trying to determine if mine has issues or if that's as good as it gets. It's the OSTI version and I'm using it in front of an S&B 3x12x50 PMII scope. Obviously, the focus knob on the PVS unit helps, but never seems to be able to really sharpen the image. Comparing the image to my Raptor 4x leaves the the PVS image noticeably less sharp. Trying to find the right combination of PVS focus knob, scope parallax adjustment, doesn't seem to make the right amount of change. Am I missing something obvious?

Kind of a difficult question to ask and harder to answer without seeing, but if anyone has run into this and found a modification I could check please advise.
Thanks in advance.

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Most AN/PVS-22 UNS units are very sharp especially at 4x and the scope you're using which makes me believe it may be the tube itself. How does the image look as you bring up the magnification a bit, lets say 6-8x? Dedicated night scopes always look a bit better, but at 4x, usually not a large noticeable difference with a high quality clip-on such as the PVS-22.

Vic

 

[Ident]

Your Raptor is going to look better as the MTF will be higher in a dedicated rifle scope vs. a clip on and daytime scope- even if they are both high end systems like your day scope and PVS-22. Like the Vicster posted above comparing both system at 4x the difference won't be dramatic at that magnification power. Are you comparing the systems near urban lighting by any chance? The objective cat lens in the OSTI is going to be affected by off-axis light quite a bit more than the Raptor.

Ident

 

[Hogstooth]

I have used PVS 22s and I was thinking the same thing, even with a good illuminator the image at 7x looks like shit. I had a SIMRAD that looked way better through a Unertl than my the 22s. Could it be a lower cost, lower grade tube?

The 22s have model 911 on them? Any ideas? Law Enforcement model?

I have still been able to engage small ass targets at 675yds but they are very hard to pick up even with an excellent illuminator. It was on an open farm out in the country with lots of starlight, no moon that I could tell that night.

 

[Hogstooth]

Using the PVS 22 as a stand alone NVD, if you hold it away from your eye a bit the image seems to be a bit better and has a full field of view, wonder if it would work for looking at it through an optic? Probably just my eyes playing tricks on me, but will have to try it tomorrow night and see what I get.

 

[gyz77]

I have a PVS-26. I can focus the NVD and my day scope together and get very crisp even at 15x-20x. Might be the tube.

 

[Fongman]

Thank you for the feedback.

First qualifier - I've been out of the game for several years due to declining health. Chronic Lyme disease has really kicked my ass. Part of the problem was that both of my eye lenses were eaten away with what I believe to be the affects of the disease. Had to have both lenses in my eyes replaced. Thanks to UKDSlayer here on the hide, I was hooked up with a leading eye surgeon who did my surgery and he told me that out of the 45k surgeries he's done, he'd never seen anything like that before. So I don't see like a normal human... such is life.

I'm trying to get back into things and have done a couple of night shoots recently. I didn't remember my PVS looking as dull as it does, but honestly it's been a couple years since I've used my gear and I have the whole is it me or the system thing going on in my head. But there was a definite difference between the two optics at least to my eyes. After reading Vic's suggestion I set both systems up last night and made sure the S&B was set to 4x. This made the comparison much closer than I had remembered the other two range sessions. Although last night I was set up at home with much ambient city light, versus the very dark night of my range time.

The PVS while closer was still less sharp than the Raptor. Not sure this makes any sense, but it works for my eyes and I don't know why. Nor do I care as long as it's repeatable - BUT I took my BC eye piece cap off and sharpened the image via the S&B eye piece focus and was able to get the image to sharpen considerably. Now during the day that setting does not produce the sharpest mil-dot reticle, but everything seemed much sharper at night with that adjustment. I have not shot it yet with things set that way, but think it should work fine.

All that to say I think my PVS is fine and I'm just weird...

Is there a specific instruction on where to set the scope parallax? I noticed while fiddling with everything that if I set the parallax at it's lowest setting 50y, the image through the PVS is the cleanest. While setting the parallax higher i.e. to infinity you notice the honeycomb affect of the PVS tube much sooner with increased magnification. I'm probably seeing things most normal humans don't

Anyway, thanks for the helpful suggestions.

 

[gyz77]

Wow!! Glad to hear you beat it! I had a cousin who lost his life to Lyme Disease. I wear glasses and always take them off when I shoot. Day or night. I sometimes have a hard time setting the scope to get the most crisp image but that has never kept me from getting great groups. Hope everything works out for you. It's a terrible disease and most people don't think about it twice!

 

[Surgeon_Shooter]

My ol lady has that same disease.... It's terrible. It mostly affects her joints like the worst arthritis imaginable. I'm glad your doing ok man!

I played with a pvs-22 not to long ago and I also noticed that focusing that thing takes a bit because every focus you have on your scope has to be fine tuned to get it crisp. I hope you get it figured out man. Happy shooting

 

[Fongman]

Thanks guys. I'm a year and 3 months into treatment so almost halfway there... Hoping to get my real life back at some point. But for now I'm just glad my gear is still working.

gyz77, are you still in Canyon? Went to school there and have some very fond memories of that place.

Surgeon, didn't you do a recent night shoot at Badlands? I think I was there doing one the week after.

 

[gyz77]

I Moved to Amarillo. Just 15 miles north!! I am still a Proud Buffalo!!!! Go WT!!

 

[edwin907]

I got a MilSpec (which means little) AN/PVS-22 from Vic and have no problem with sharpness at magnifications under 9-10X. When dialed up to 12X sharpness suffers a bit.
This is using it with a USO SN-3 3.2-17X44 or a USO SN-3 1.8-10X37 as well as TA11, TA31, and TA55 ACOGs.
At closer ranges you do have to fiddle with it a bit to maximize sharpness, but generally it approached my superb GenIII D-760 in sharpness.
Work with the separation distance between the UNS and the scope, as well as stray light and the gain, and it helps to have clean glass.

 

[Fongman]

I Moved to Amarillo. Just 15 miles north!! I am still a Proud Buffalo!!!! Go WT!!

I'm old school, it was WTSU when I was there. Good days - everything seemed much simpler then...

 

[Fongman]

I got a MilSpec (which means little) AN/PVS-22 from Vic and have no problem with sharpness at magnifications under 9-10X. When dialed up to 12X sharpness suffers a bit.
This is using it with a USO SN-3 3.2-17X44 or a USO SN-3 1.8-10X37 as well as TA11, TA31, and TA55 ACOGs.
At closer ranges you do have to fiddle with it a bit to maximize sharpness, but generally it approached my superb GenIII D-760 in sharpness.
Work with the separation distance between the UNS and the scope, as well as stray light and the gain, and it helps to have clean glass.

Thanks edwin, don't have a lot of real-estate to play with, but will give that a try as well. I think I've got it figured out...

 

[Surgeon_Shooter]

Yes sir I was there at bad lands a few weeks back doing a night shoot with them. They are super nice people and I will definetly be back for the class one day.

 

[edwin907]

I love the gain adjustment on the 22, centering the respective scope axis helps image quality a minute bit, but I have run some impressive offset on the mounts with little to no change in accuracy or image quality.
With a decent illuminator, long range is surprising with this setup. Variable gain is quite useful with the 22, I run a USO SN-3 3.2-17X44 and a 1.8-10X37 and they work as well as with the ACOGs, 3.5, 4, and 5.5X. It's really amazing, in a time when little is accurate to given names (witness the Affordable Care Act), "CLIP ON" really is. I've got illumination on the USO scopes, but surprisingly rarely need it with the PVS-22.
Maybe I've lucked out with a good MilSpec unit, thanks to Victor, but it just plain WORKS! I use it on an AR 5.56 and an AI 308, both with and without illumination, and it's NOT FOR SALE.
Once again, thanks VIC!

 

[gyz77]

My KAC UNS LR/LP is the same. Works great no matter what scope it's in front of! I've run it in front of an ACOG and my Bushnell HDMR. It's also at home in front of my CQBSS!! Awesome quaily and built like a tank! That's the only negative, the weight. But for me I'd rather it be built like a tank as an old Capt I used to have told me I could F@@K up a steel ball!!! What can I say!! I'm 6'3" and 300+. I broke some lug bolts on my patrol car replacing a flat!!! I just wanted them tight!!

 

[Victor-TNVC]

I love the gain adjustment on the 22, centering the respective scope axis helps image quality a minute bit, but I have run some impressive offset on the mounts with little to no change in accuracy or image quality.
With a decent illuminator, long range is surprising with this setup. Variable gain is quite useful with the 22, I run a USO SN-3 3.2-17X44 and a 1.8-10X37 and they work as well as with the ACOGs, 3.5, 4, and 5.5X. It's really amazing, in a time when little is accurate to given names (witness the Affordable Care Act), "CLIP ON" really is. I've got illumination on the USO scopes, but surprisingly rarely need it with the PVS-22.
Maybe I've lucked out with a good MilSpec unit, thanks to Victor, but it just plain WORKS! I use it on an AR 5.56 and an AI 308, both with and without illumination, and it's NOT FOR SALE.
Once again, thanks VIC!

Edwin, thanks for the kind words. Glad you're still enjoying the gear! How many rounds you now have down range with your 22? It has to be a good amount.

Victor

 

[edwin907]

Edwin, thanks for the kind words. Glad you're still enjoying the gear! How many rounds you now have down range with your 22? It has to be a good amount.

Victor

Hello Vic. Lost count with 556, but about 400 with the 7.62.
The PVS-14 and D-760 still motor along great as well. And no, I don't mount the PVS-14 on the AK anymore! The IR laser is the only way to go, and as the quality of your NV goes up, the need for illumination goes down.

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Glad to hear the 760 is still thumping and glad all those non-purged "plastic pieces" and so-called "taped reticles" are still in one piece and have not fallen apart as a select few suggested several years ago....I almost forgot you own this as well.

I cannot agree with you more the effectiveness and versatility of letting your IR laser do all the talking while head mounting your 14. Been saying it for many years.... We've also been training many for a long time on this result.