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list of practicable calibers for shooting 1 mile...

Ring

Ring

Rifle Instructor
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 12, 2009
2,323
10
Medina, Ohio
sites.google.com
by "practicable ", im talking no custom wild cat's, non BMG, non chytac or barret...


300wm
7mm-wm
.264 Winchester Magnum
.338 Winchester Magnum



6.5x284???
30-08 with a 208???
 
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How about 8mm? Excellent cartridge, heavy stable bullet.
 
.338LM is damn near the perfect one-mile cartridge.
 
Abq-Defense said:
Which weight bullet would you recommend (i.e. 250gr, 285gr, 300gr)?
Click to expand...

Depends - all 3 will get you there regardless. I've shot the 250s for the last five years or so with great success and you can easily push them close to 3000fps. The 300s seem a bit more temperamental as I've had mixed results; if anything I think they just need a bit more than 1:10 twist to get them working reliably, though there are plenty of people who shoot that combo just fine. After the Gunsite XLR assessment I started working on a 285gr load but progress is slow. I've traditionally shot 250 Scenars (earlier SMKs) at 2950fps with RL25 and a couple years ago worked up faster load with N560 @3050fps. But after getting my ass handed to me in a 1km-2km match by guys with long barrels shooting 300gr Bergers, I'm having a 32" 1:9 twist barrel made that I intend to shoot the heavier bullets with.
 
The best solutions probably boil down to the .338LM or the 7WSM. A simple list of pro's and con's are that the 7WSM will be cheaper and likely to give longer consistent elevation for matches. It burns less powder - has less fouling - if reloaded is easier to get to very low ES velocities in the 3150 fps to 3180fps range without crazy pressure - but will need better wind reading skills due to a lighter bullet with a slightly lower BC moving more in the wind.

The .338 LM with a heavier bullet and more powder is more expensive to run - harder to get the ES down to the same flat elevation a 7 WSM can do due to slower powder causing more fouling and the increased case capacity increasing the variable burn rate. The bullets though will buck the wind better in the heavier bullets at long distances if you have the right barrel length and twist rate to stabilise them.

Big case capacity though is a hard obstacle to over come in the target shooting world (where the job the bullet has to do is just hit paper).

If the bullet has a job to do other than that at those distances the heavier bullets would be best.
 
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PeterPHWS said:
The .338 LM with a heavier bullet and more powder is more expensive to run - harder to get the ES down to the same flat elevation a 7 WSM can do due to slower powder causing more fouling and the increased case capacity increasing the variable burn rate. The bullets though will buck the wind better in the heavier bullets at long distances if you have the right barrel length and twist rate to stabilise them.
Click to expand...

I concur; .338LM is designed for neutralizing personnel at long ranges, not punching paper or ringing steel, though it will do that quite well it really depends on what your needs are.
 
Id say go with the 338 LM, I run the 300gr bergers in my Savage 110 ba. I just love the amount of power the round still has at a mile+.
 
1+ for 7wsm. Much more economical than a 338lm. The 180 Bergers hybrids pointed are hard to beat. Go with a 26" or longer barrel for more velocity and you'll be GTG.

If you want more energy down range and less wind drift look at pushing the 230gr OTM in a 300 Norma Mag. Keeps up with a 338lm up to a mile.
 
.300 NORMA MAGNUM

Fantastic ballistics with the new Berger 230 gr. bullets according to users. Plus cheaper to shoot than .338 LM
 
First, you mention "no wildcats". Understand that to get good performance out of your choice you are either going to have to reload or have your cartridges reloaded for you. So, wildcats might not be so bad after all?

Regarding the 7WSM. I've shot a 7mm-08 out to one mile with 168 and 180 gr. SMK and VLD type bullets. The key to that success was a tight twist, as I was only launching them at 2700 fps. You can get a fair amount more than that with a 7 WSM.

The key to the whole 7mm thing is "what's off the shelf?". Not much really. Everything comes with the standard 1-9.5" or at best 1-9.25". Those are tight enough to stabilize the 180 VLD's, but not enough to get them through the transonic range accurately. So, you would need a new barrel at the very least.

Somebody above mentioned going with .30 cal magnums. With the newer bullets in 225 and 230 gr. I would say these would be a good option. You could even go with a 30-06 with a 1-10" twist and get it done with these bullets. The slower the velocity, the more wind you will have to be able to call. At super extended ranges like one mile, the wind calls are going to be tough no matter what you shoot. It may be a case of starting with a 30-06 and getting there. And, once you are comfortable with that moving up to a magnum barrel of some sort. Because either way you're going to find yourself drifting all over the place without knowing where you're at for the first little while.

Another one is the 8mms as mentioned. The WWII 198 gr. German projectile was made to stabilize out of a 1-9.44" twist out to 2500m. That's from a standard 8x57. There are some bullets that come close to them ballistically, but do not really duplicate. They can get you to one mile though. A 200 gr. Nosler CC can do that.

The only "off the shelf" solution I see today for shooting that far is the .338 Lapua. A purpose built cartridge/rifle system for that range. Problem is @ $4 a pop for "off the shelf" cartridges, you need to have a lot of cash to be able to afford it. That or have a shooting business.



So, it's a wash. You can buy the expensive .338 or go with 7mm/8mm or .30 cal solutions and reload. As popular as long range is getting, there is very little dedicated on the store shelves to it. So, no matter what, you'll have to do a lot of footwork to get to one mile accurately.

Added:

Two calibers I didn't mention are 6mm and 6.5. With the heavy 115's in 6mm and 140/142 loads in 6.5 you can achieve one mile consistently. The difference with these is wind is an even bigger factor. Certainly doable. 264shooter was using a 6.5 Creedmoor out to one mile using 123 gr. Lapua's. And hitting consistently. ScottyS took his new 6mm SLR out to the same distance. Later in the cooler Fall temps of Nevada, the 6mm was still supersonic out past 1800. The 123 Lapua's fell off around 1700. The heavier 6.5 bullets would, I believe remain supersonic as long as the 115 gr. 6mm's will.
 
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Dogtown said:
Depends - all 3 will get you there regardless. I've shot the 250s for the last five years or so with great success and you can easily push them close to 3000fps. The 300s seem a bit more temperamental as I've had mixed results; if anything I think they just need a bit more than 1:10 twist to get them working reliably, though there are plenty of people who shoot that combo just fine. After the Gunsite XLR assessment I started working on a 285gr load but progress is slow. I've traditionally shot 250 Scenars (earlier SMKs) at 2950fps with RL25 and a couple years ago worked up faster load with N560 @3050fps. But after getting my ass handed to me in a 1km-2km match by guys with long barrels shooting 300gr Bergers, I'm having a 32" 1:9 twist barrel made that I intend to shoot the heavier bullets with.
Click to expand...

Thank You for the great info Dog.

I would like to stick to the 285-300gr range with my DTA 26" barrel, so this info is very helpful.
 
Sandwarrior makes a good point , Some of us are picking standard chamberings and putting our own choice of high BC bullet which is not standard to buy off the shelf and which isn't what the thread was about . I'm one of the guilty ones , sorry .
 
Ring said:
by "practicable ", im talking no custom wild cat's, non BMG, non chytac or barret...


300wm
7mm-wm
.264 Winchester Magnum
.338 Winchester Magnum



6.5x284???
30-08 with a 208???
Click to expand...

David Tubb has an older one mile video and IIRC he was using the 6.5x284... and Bryan Litz was smacking steel in his recent video at a mile with a 338.

From the above list I'd go 300wm and run 215 against 230 (both from Berger) and see which performs better in your barrel.

I am sure its fun but after watching these top shooters make hits and not... just makes me ponder.
 
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300RUM with a 208 A-Max will get you there. The 208 A-Max is 1/2 the $ of the Berger ( if you can find them ).
 
Both .300 WinMag and .338 Lapua are good bets. But you're not going to find anything "off the shelf" with the ammo shortage. So, you might as well build a relationship with your local reloader or DIY on your reloads.
 
I have both a 6.5 Creedmoor (DPMS semiauto), 7WSM (custom Savage), and am also getting a .338 Lapua rile (custom Surgeon as well). I can't speak for the .338 as I haven't shot it at super long ranges, but I CAN tell you the 7WSM really starts to shine past 800 yards. At that distance and beyond, it really starts to pull ahead of the 6.5 Creedmoor.
 
I like my .45-90 for that range best. If you want something more socially acceptable, the .338LM, .338 or .300 Norma are great choices.
 
Great thread!! Thanks to all you guys that spoke up and gave your advice! Where I live all my old hunting and shooting buddies are either gone or have no interest in shooting any more! I have a question, back a couple years ago I bought a Lilija
barrel, sorry for the wrong spelling, This barrel was fit for a 700 Remington and it is 28" long and 1-8 twist in 260 Rem Ack.40 degree Imp. It has had 50 rounds down the pipe I have all 50 of the 1x fired Lapua Brass, with Redding 3 die set, and also a Redding Comp.Micro seater die. I have inspected every piece of fired brass, and they show no problems.
The reason I ask this: The Barrel is what I call a pencil profile? Does this barrel (do to the barrel's profile) have enough
meat to shoot 1000yds. shooting very slow? I am sorry for making this so long, so I won't tell the story on how I bought the
barrel!
Cag55
 
CAG55 said:
The reason I ask this: The Barrel is what I call a pencil profile? Does this barrel (do to the barrel's profile) have enough
meat to shoot 1000yds. shooting very slow? Cag55
Click to expand...

In my experience, the only way you'll ever know if it you try it. Accurate shooting is as much art as science. I believe its unhelpful to try to tell you what will or won't happen with this barrel. Just try it.

It won't cost you that much to rebarrel, if you decide to.
 
garandman said:
In my experience, the only way you'll ever know if it you try it. Accurate shooting is as much art as science. I believe its unhelpful to try to tell you what will or won't happen with this barrel. Just try it.

It won't cost you that much to rebarrel, if you decide to.
Click to expand...

I agree with you a 100%, I had got out of the sport for 10 years and could not believe how much stuff I had forgot! By the time
most of it came back to me, the weather and my back has not allow me to get out! I should of worded my question better, I should of said: If I do my part, can the barrel do it's job ?
Thanks
Cag
 
CAG55 said:
! I should of worded my question better, I should of said: If I do my part, can the barrel do it's job ?
Thanks
Cag
Click to expand...


And again I say no way to know without trying it.

You might as well ask "Can my car make it on a cross country trip?"

Just as there are dozens of variables for the car that would affect its ability for extended travel, so it is with a barrel. Is it shot out? Is it warped? Is the muzzle crown damaged? Is the barrel ringed? Is there any rust / corrosion damage?

Then there's ammo sensitivity. Will you be reloading?

etc etc

The only way to know is to try. A good barrel costs $400ish. Are you willing to risk throwing away $150 for an install of the old barrel to save the $400? Only you can answer that.

I firmly believe NO barrel will really perform for you unless you are willing to handload, and experiment.
 
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garandman I understand that! Maybe what I should of ask was, has any one ever had any luck long range shooting with that
Profile barrel?
I think I mentioned that I got, 1x shot brass, dies, ect. with the barrel?
And I mean no disrespect to you or any one else replying, I have been reloading since 1972, never for long range,
and what I mean by that is: never weighed brass, never played with different aol of a round,ect.
At one time in the early80's I was reloading 1500 rds a week, but 800 of them were shot gun.
I think that a new Bull barrel has a better chance shooting out to 1000 yds. if ever thing is done right, over a new
pencil profile barrel.
I don't post much on here, I do a lot of reading and researching, but there are just some things you have to ask.
Didn't mean to waste any one's time.

Cag
 
CAG55 said:
garandman I understand that! Maybe what I should of ask was, has any one ever had any luck long range shooting with that
Profile barrel?
I think I mentioned that I got, 1x shot brass, dies, ect. with the barrel?
And I mean no disrespect to you or any one else replying, I have been reloading since 1972, never for long range,
and what I mean by that is: never weighed brass, never played with different aol of a round,ect.
At one time in the early80's I was reloading 1500 rds a week, but 800 of them were shot gun.
I think that a new Bull barrel has a better chance shooting out to 1000 yds. if ever thing is done right, over a new
pencil profile barrel.
I don't post much on here, I do a lot of reading and researching, but there are just some things you have to ask.
Didn't mean to waste any one's time.

Cag
Click to expand...

And again it really doesn't mater if anyone ever has had success with that profile barrel.....because those barrels are not YOUR barrel. The ONLY thing that matters is will YOUR barrel shoot well.

If YOUR barrel is ringed, or the crown damaged, if your barrel is warped, or shot out, or there is damage to the rifling in YOUR barrel....then it doesn't matter that another barrel of the same profile ever shot well. Heck, two BRAND NEW barrels don't always both shoot well.

There is ONLY ONE way to know if YOUR barrel will shoot well. And anyone who would tell you any different risks doing wrong by you.

But if you MUST have an answer - try this: in my personal experience and ALOT of other second hand reports, Savage is pretty much a crap shoot....50/50....roll the dice. Some shoot excellent. Some don't.

Me personally? I wouldn't use that barrel. This IS a situation where "Buy once, cry once" can apply. Unless you really like fiddling with stuff, and don't get frustrated easily.

Hope this helps.
 
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The Barrel is a Lilja, it has 50 rounds shot threw it, the rifling is great, the crown is like new, the 50 brass that was fired threw it, look great and show no problems, and you have got your point across several posted back!
 
I just traded in my 338L for a 7WSM. I cant stand the recoil of the 338L.
 
300 RUM. Uses a lot of powder but you still haven't moved up into the realm of cost of a 338LM. And have you seen the ballistics of a 230gr Berger going 2900fps or a 208amax going above, well above, 3000 fps?
 
Good luck finding 300 RUM brass.

I went 338 Norma Mag with a Muscle brake to manage the cost and the recoil of the 338LM. I don't foresee cranking our 50 rounds in a day with this rifle....
 
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