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Strykervet

ain'T goT no how whaTchamacalliT
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Jun 5, 2011
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    Pierce County, WA
    Fellow has a 200p CR123 version with mount and arming pin for sale locally for $1500. Supposedly checks out through CID and no military or government agency or civilian is missing it anywhere, stolen lost or otherwise, and the purchaser can check it out his or herself. I'm curious about it as an illuminator, not a laser (too powerful) but I'm just not sure it's for me. Is this a good deal, is it any good for illumination for long range night shooting with a future clip on? I'm thinking of passing on it personally, I heard a good 1k-1.6k LED illuminator is coming out soon for less. What do you guys think?
     
    I'd have a hard time believing that this actually checks out through anybody. This isn't just a random PEQ-15 on every GI's M4. Thing is a freakin' light saber. That being said I REALLY want one.
     
    Yea, I'd put money on it That it is indeed missing .mil property. Most times authorities won't work with you on getting it verified, so the seller is probably blowing smoke up your sphincter, which could feel good, but I can't say from personal experience. The times I've tried to get stuff checked out, they acted like I was a moron. And it could be hot, and just not logged anywhere yet.
     
    That said, just get it and don't go posting pics of it online, or even mention owning one. Pointing it at aircraft is also ill-advised. If nothing else, you wont have any buddies that will be able to trump you with a cool gear card. Just ain't gunna happen.
     
    I just spoke to a BE Meyers rep recently and he confirmed to me that the Izlid has never been sold to ANYONE but the US Military period. No LEO at all. now as a long range illumination they are dangerously powerful not just to your eyes from close range reflections but they can destroy an image Intensifier in a very short time. I would save your money for something else. Ammo and a class for instance.
     
    I have used one and even at 500yards it's beam is too tight for a useful illuminator. Oh, and I can guarantee its stolen. My buddy bought one off (more like rented) and it was promptly confiscated.
     
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    Fellow has a 200p CR123 version with mount and arming pin for sale locally for $1500. Supposedly checks out through CID and no military or government agency or civilian is missing it anywhere, stolen lost or otherwise, and the purchaser can check it out his or herself. I'm curious about it as an illuminator, not a laser (too powerful) but I'm just not sure it's for me. Is this a good deal, is it any good for illumination for long range night shooting with a future clip on? I'm thinking of passing on it personally, I heard a good 1k-1.6k LED illuminator is coming out soon for less. What do you guys think?

    To gauge illuminator performance, divergence and intensity of the output needs to be understood:

    The IZLID 200P has a variable lens angle that adjusts beam divergence from 0.17 milliradian (pencil beam for aiming) to 105.00 milliradian (flood for illumination). This means that at the widest lens angle setting, the IZLID 200P will project an illumination window that fits into a circle of 105 yards diameter at 1000 yards. At 100 yards, the illumination window will fit into a circle of 10.5 yards (31.5 feet) diameter. Consider that at 3x, precision marksmanship rifle scopes commonly give a field of view (FOV) of 36 - 38 feet diameter at 100 yards.

    On illumination intensity, an IR LED would need at least 2,000 mW output to match the intensity of the IZLID 200P's 200 mW IR laser diode output. At the maximum divergence, the IZLID 200P gives useful illumination intensity out to around 3,000 yards.

    Using the serial number and manufacturing date on the IZLID 200P, B.E. Meyers will be able to identify what entity they shipped it to. The DHS ICE has them do these look-ups all the time. However, you need to know that B.E. Meyers also has a compliance "office" that works closely with law enforcement entities to locate, identify, and recover laser devices illegally diverted from military and law enforcement inventory and custody.

    IR-V
     
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    with all that being said and it is all correct. The military writes these off as a combat loss all the time. One of the units I was with in Afghanistan that we worked with wrote off several brand new ones because it simply was easier than accounting for them otherwise. Not all units are like that but some are.

    Unless DHS ICE has paper that identifies a specific unit they have no legal reason to confiscate the unit. If you want to then get an attorney, but usually that costs more than the unit.

    Me personally I have used them and they are a significant over kill for use in the states. A neat gadget but that is about the use, and they are expensive. A DBAL will do just fine and in many cases it is too much on full power if you are using it to shoot. Works great for observation.

    One good thing about the Izlid is that it truly is built like a tank. It will take a beating and keep ticking.
     
    Well I was just curious... I thought it would be too powerful for my use but thought the illuminator would be nice for a .50BMG. Now I've seen another fellow a couple years back, he met a guy on a military post to buy a laser that he was told wasn't stolen. Some guy called MP's on them, MP called MPI, MPI called CID. They came out on the spot and ran it, took pictures of it. They even checked out my buddy's NODs (which weren't AN anything, but were 14's). He said they seemed more interested in those than the laser (it was a PEQ15 or 16, I forget).

    After sitting on the side of the road for over an hour, CID comes back and says to him "enjoy your purchase" and walks off. He says something like "so yeah, it's good to go?" and he said the same thing this fellow above is saying --no military, govt. agency or civilian in US is looking for this. As far as I know, he still has it.

    So I figure when CID can check it out like that and they say "enjoy your purchase" that's the end of it, right?

    IR-V, thanks for the breakdown on that. But still, I'd never have thought several years ago they'd have LED IR illuminators that work out to 800m. And yeah, some of those are around the 700mW range, so 2000 may not be far off. Again, I need a long range illuminator, not a laser for calling in airstrikes. I've seen their video on what the laser does. I don't need that (but yeah, I could see how you'd hold the platinum cool guy card if you had one).

    BTW, if you're interested, it's actually on Ebay and it's $1700. Like I said, I'm passing, but I wanted to know more about it from folks that have used it. But if anyone on here gets it, I HIGHLY recommend running that info yourself. You'd be stupid not to at this point.
     
    A couple years ago, there was a USMC Ssgt selling a brand-new, IZLID 1000P Ultra on eBay. When investigated by the DHS ICE, he used the defense that it had been written off as a combat loss. That didn't fly. The device showed up in the mfg. records as shipping to the military, and was confiscated. The LE task force then divided the investigation into two threads. One thread traced the military supply chain, while another combed the Ssgt's e-mail, Paypal, and other electronic records to find who he had acquired it from, and then repeated that process of "peeling back the onion" with each prior "owner / seller".

    Writing off equipment that is not truly lost / damaged / destroyed / captured as a "combat loss" is viewed by criminal investigative entities as a form of theft and fraud. The law is clear: once the military entity receiving the FDA excepted laser optic no longer has a need for the device, it must either be returned to the manufacturer or destroyed. This year, there was a successful criminal conviction of a U.S. person (not citizen) who was working a racket to acquire military laser gear, written off as "combat losses", from U.S. military overseas, and then to import the stuff back into the U.S., for commercial sale, with new labels suggesting that they were aftermarket clones (e.g. Made in China, Etc.).

    When the mfg. records show disposition to the military and the device does not show in military inventory, investigators look for two things -- illicit diversion from inventory via mis-use of administrative procedure, and failure to enter the device into inventory via failure to implement administrative requirements. Then, there's the abuses where someone with procurement authority misuses their government position to order the restricted devices, and then uses one of the two methods described to "divert" the items from government accountability. There's a major prosecution in process, right now, pertaining to this.

    For the little guy -- the civilian hobbyist who finds and buys a <b>contraband</b> IZLID via on-line auction -- federal LE will usually accept the voluntary surrender of the device and any associated info about how it was acquired from whom in lieu of pursuing prosecution. Their goal is to hunt down the bigger fish involved in the illicit diversion and fencing of these things as a business enterprise.

    Not long ago, there was a hobbyist who approached DHS ICE agents with the fact that he had a restricted military laser, and challenged them to research the serial number and to try to force him to surrender it. All the drama was documented publicly, up to the meeting the fellow had with the DHS ICE agents and with his attorney present. This person ended up voluntarily surrendering the device and with the observation, said in a very small voice, that the agents he "met" with "really knew their stuff".

    What one does regarding this IZLID is up to that individual to decide. It is not illegal for a U.S. citizen to possess a high-output laser that isn't stolen or illegally diverted from Military / LE.

    As for the usefulness of the IZLID 200Ps, their application is to designate targets for Close Air Support, or as aiming and illumination devices for crew-served weapons, such as the Ma Deuce, which has effective range on their ordnance out to a couple kilometers or more. Though a bit much for most small-arms applications, another thing to consider is that in their standard configuration, the IZLIDs do not have on-board or remote cable switching that permits a persistent beam ... meaning, the output occurs only while there is manual pressure on the activation switch. In this way, they are more intended as pointer and signalling devices for ground commanders and attack controllers than as weapons aimer / illuminator.

    IR-V
     
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    Yeah, like I said, I passed on it. But it looks like somebody didn't, because it sold pretty quickly today. It was just way too powerful for me, and I don't think it would have worked that well for what I need based on what was said above.

    I bet someone will have the 1 mile LED illuminator by the time I can get my clip on, which will be a while I assume. They keep going further and further and getting better and better all the time though, and Moore's Law seems to be on our side at the moment anyway.

    Thanks for the info.
     
    Yeah, like I said, I passed on it. But it looks like somebody didn't, because it sold pretty quickly today. It was just way too powerful for me, and I don't think it would have worked that well for what I need based on what was said above.

    I bet someone will have the 1 mile LED illuminator by the time I can get my clip on, which will be a while I assume. They keep going further and further and getting better and better all the time though, and Moore's Law seems to be on our side at the moment anyway.

    Thanks for the info.

    Glad to help with information. I hope my last post didn't come across as a lecture.

    Who knows what the story is on that particular IZLID. The seller had tried unsuccessfully to unload it via some lower visibility web sites before posting it for sale on eBay.

    For IR illumination with military grade optics and electronics, the GCP-2 (Ground Commander Pointer) is hard to beat. It is rated at 175 mW but is about 1/2 the size and weight of the IZLID 200P. The GCP-2 lens adjusts from narrow focus (pencil beam) to 30-degree flood, which is an extremely wide projection window. For example and comparison, the field of view on a PVS-14 is 40 degrees. Though it is compact enough to easily and comfortably fit in a pants or jacket pocket, the GCP-2 is built tough as nails. It also has a variable output wheel that can be used to adjust output intensity to any level between 0.1 mW and 175 mW. Most importantly, many of the older NIVISYS units were manufactured (and entered into the commercial market through legitimate channels) before the FDA restrictions were enacted.

    IR-V
     
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    Very good synopsis on the GCP IR-V. I've always liked the units, even though the naysayers around did not like a "rectangle" type beam. They're several version as you know that are out there, one of them is my favorite you spoke to.

    Now if they can only get the Atilla moving in the right direction....NVEC (formally Night Vision Equipment Company, then DRS) sold off all their stock to NIVISYS. I THINK the GCP and ATILLA's were actually developed from ITT way early on and NVEC purchased the rights to them as NIVISYS did from NVEC/DRS.

    Vic
     
    Very good synopsis on the GCP IR-V. I've always liked the units, even though the naysayers around did not like a "rectangle" type beam. They're several version as you know that are out there, one of them is my favorite you spoke to.

    Now if they can only get the Atilla moving in the right direction....NVEC (formally Night Vision Equipment Company, then DRS) sold off all their stock to NIVISYS. I THINK the GCP and ATILLA's were actually developed from ITT way early on and NVEC purchased the rights to them as NIVISYS did from NVEC/DRS.

    Vic

    Thanks for the excellent recap on the corporate geneologies, Vic. The "rectangle" beams were definitely considered "radical" when they first emerged. Interestingly, the IZLID 200P lens collimation produces a hybrid beam with rectangle proportions but convexed on the vertical sides, and the IZLID 1000 projects a pattern generated beam that is a perfect rectangle with the horizontal and vertical sides perfectly "straight" and perpendicular on the x and y-axes. The L3 MPLI is the Class IV laser analogous to the IZLID but with round beam and illumination window, and variable rate strobe.

    The GCP-2 is unique (compared to other GCP models) in having a round beam and illumination window. The GCP-2C variant is (was) configured to connect to solenoid power supplies (versus AA batteries) to provide IR laser aiming for auto cannons and heavy machineguns on aircraft gunships. The laser diode and lens technologies of the GCP-2 and ATILLA-200 were identical up until around 2005 - 2006, which supports your observation of their having common ITT lineage.

    Though the GCP-2 and ATILLA-200 designs have been around for some time now, I personally regard them as having unique features and integration of features that remain unsurpassed, even when compared to the most current offerings.

    IR-V