Anyone know where I could get some land nav training.
Fieldcraft land nav. help
- Thread starter clarkarchery
- Start date
Re: land nav. help
That's tricky, and it depends on what level of skill you're at. I would start asking the veterans you know if anyone would be interested in teaching you the basics, say, for a case of beer. You'll need to find a place with some decent acreage, and go out with him to learn how to use a compass and protractor with a map, preferably an Military Grid Reference System (MGRS) map. Plot a few points, get an idea of distance and azimuth (and the difference in declination between magnetic north and true north). Then go find some landmarks that you'll recognize. Once you've got the basics, you'll need to do it on your own so you get some confidence in your own abilities to go solo. That takes some time as well.
The trick to land nav is doing it... and refreshing your skills often. Once you get comfortable, you'll be surprised how decent you can get at it.
That's tricky, and it depends on what level of skill you're at. I would start asking the veterans you know if anyone would be interested in teaching you the basics, say, for a case of beer. You'll need to find a place with some decent acreage, and go out with him to learn how to use a compass and protractor with a map, preferably an Military Grid Reference System (MGRS) map. Plot a few points, get an idea of distance and azimuth (and the difference in declination between magnetic north and true north). Then go find some landmarks that you'll recognize. Once you've got the basics, you'll need to do it on your own so you get some confidence in your own abilities to go solo. That takes some time as well.
The trick to land nav is doing it... and refreshing your skills often. Once you get comfortable, you'll be surprised how decent you can get at it.
Re: land nav. help
Check with your local search and rescue team. They may let you tag along on one of their land-nav training days.
Check with your local search and rescue team. They may let you tag along on one of their land-nav training days.
Re: land nav. help
Depending on what you are looking for REI has classes on orienteering & GPS usage. You can very well get the basics on land nav in a class like that. Sometimes it doesn't cost anything for the class either. Hope that helps.
Depending on what you are looking for REI has classes on orienteering & GPS usage. You can very well get the basics on land nav in a class like that. Sometimes it doesn't cost anything for the class either. Hope that helps.
Re: land nav. help
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I tried to put on a Land Nav class, (free) but I didn't get any takers.
May try again in the sping, we'll see.
If you ever get to Wyoming, give me a holler, I'll fix you up. </div></div>
I was really interested in this but work killed it for me. Ill be watching for sure if you get around to doing it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I tried to put on a Land Nav class, (free) but I didn't get any takers.
May try again in the sping, we'll see.
If you ever get to Wyoming, give me a holler, I'll fix you up. </div></div>
I was really interested in this but work killed it for me. Ill be watching for sure if you get around to doing it.
Re: land nav. help
Any one have a good place to get Topographic Maps? Also, a good place to have them Acetate in North Texas?
Any one have a good place to get Topographic Maps? Also, a good place to have them Acetate in North Texas?
Re: land nav. help
This site looks promising, plus they can laminate it for you. May be a good option: http://www.mytopo.com/index.cfm.
This site looks promising, plus they can laminate it for you. May be a good option: http://www.mytopo.com/index.cfm.
Re: land nav. help
The USGS sells topo maps pretty cheap. I'd recommend 7.5 minute (1:24000) maps.
http://store.usgs.gov/b2c_usgs/b2c/start/(xcm=r3standardpitrex_prd)/.do;jsessionid=(J2EE8933300)ID0006859053DB02502179738818934473End;saplb_*=(J2EE8933300)8933353
The USGS sells topo maps pretty cheap. I'd recommend 7.5 minute (1:24000) maps.
http://store.usgs.gov/b2c_usgs/b2c/start/(xcm=r3standardpitrex_prd)/.do;jsessionid=(J2EE8933300)ID0006859053DB02502179738818934473End;saplb_*=(J2EE8933300)8933353
Re: land nav. help
If you don't mind reading, there are quite a few books on the subject. One of the best resources is U.S Army FM 3-25.26 Map Reading and Land Navigation http://www.uvm.edu/~goldbar/FM3_25.26.pdf
FWIW: the National Geographic topo maps aren't half bad and are somewhat weather resistant as well.
If you don't mind reading, there are quite a few books on the subject. One of the best resources is U.S Army FM 3-25.26 Map Reading and Land Navigation http://www.uvm.edu/~goldbar/FM3_25.26.pdf
FWIW: the National Geographic topo maps aren't half bad and are somewhat weather resistant as well.
Re: land nav. help
that all sounds good and i will have to look into it all. And if you hear about in classes please keep me in mind. Doing it always seems to work better for me.
Thanks
that all sounds good and i will have to look into it all. And if you hear about in classes please keep me in mind. Doing it always seems to work better for me.
Thanks
Re: land nav. help
Click on the below link, and then on the folder named "Phase I". It has all the USMC LandNav publications for new Lieutenants.
https://www.trngcmd.usmc.mil/TBS/Publications/Forms/AllItems.aspx
Yes - I also know that Lieutenants can't LandNav... but I don't think it's because of these pubs.
Good luck.
Click on the below link, and then on the folder named "Phase I". It has all the USMC LandNav publications for new Lieutenants.
https://www.trngcmd.usmc.mil/TBS/Publications/Forms/AllItems.aspx
Yes - I also know that Lieutenants can't LandNav... but I don't think it's because of these pubs.
Good luck.
Re: land nav. help
tag 4 later
tag 4 later
Re: land nav. help
I once knew how to land nav but then my skull pace beads broke, my protractor got too scratched to read, my tritium died on my compass, and the declination diagram was chewed off my map, so I don't leave my mom's basement these days
I once knew how to land nav but then my skull pace beads broke, my protractor got too scratched to read, my tritium died on my compass, and the declination diagram was chewed off my map, so I don't leave my mom's basement these days
Re: land nav. help
Hey, I'm fairly good at this stuff but it is a deep subject and you should fare carefully because getting lost is no fun at all. But being able to go anywhere without getting lost is a priceless skill and worth learning.
For starters, I'd get the FM on land nav like stated above, that is a good place to start --master it-- some kind of 1/50,000 map to train on (preferably a map of your local area for practice, and a mix of city and some woods or desert would be ideal). A length of cord for notting, and a good compass. I like the Cammenga tritium model myself. I'd also invest in laminating the map and getting a set of Stadler map pens, the alcohol based ones with the eraser pen. Fine point. I'd get a plastic military compass and a strong piece of string, a couple of feet and a piece about ten or twelve inches to run exactly through the center of the compass.
The book is gonna teach you a lot of important stuff, like the three different norths, which one applies to you and how to use it or find it on your map, how to read your map, how use your compass (and I'm pretty sure they use the Cammenga one in there too) along with a lot of other tricks for if you get lost, how to do regression techniques, etc.
I was, and probably am, still good at it, but I've been doing it since I was a kid too, and I also have a good deal of math training. If you know some math, particularly some trig, you'll be golden. If not, you especially need that FM because it will give you shortcuts on lots of those formulas so you can take advantage of them.
GPS is fine and all, but DO NOT rely on that stuff! Case in point: I was issued an army GPS called a "plugger" and that damn thing just WOULD NOT WORK, day or night, and because they issued us those GPS units, we were required to get all 5 points of 5, instead of 3 of five at night and 4 of five at day. Anyway, I of course drew the longest, most protracted points through the woods, and in the rain day and night (night vision, even gen.3 PVS14's, don't work well in the woods in the rain with overcast and no moon!) I still was able to get all the points thanks to good map skills.
Good luck!
Hey, I'm fairly good at this stuff but it is a deep subject and you should fare carefully because getting lost is no fun at all. But being able to go anywhere without getting lost is a priceless skill and worth learning.
For starters, I'd get the FM on land nav like stated above, that is a good place to start --master it-- some kind of 1/50,000 map to train on (preferably a map of your local area for practice, and a mix of city and some woods or desert would be ideal). A length of cord for notting, and a good compass. I like the Cammenga tritium model myself. I'd also invest in laminating the map and getting a set of Stadler map pens, the alcohol based ones with the eraser pen. Fine point. I'd get a plastic military compass and a strong piece of string, a couple of feet and a piece about ten or twelve inches to run exactly through the center of the compass.
The book is gonna teach you a lot of important stuff, like the three different norths, which one applies to you and how to use it or find it on your map, how to read your map, how use your compass (and I'm pretty sure they use the Cammenga one in there too) along with a lot of other tricks for if you get lost, how to do regression techniques, etc.
I was, and probably am, still good at it, but I've been doing it since I was a kid too, and I also have a good deal of math training. If you know some math, particularly some trig, you'll be golden. If not, you especially need that FM because it will give you shortcuts on lots of those formulas so you can take advantage of them.
GPS is fine and all, but DO NOT rely on that stuff! Case in point: I was issued an army GPS called a "plugger" and that damn thing just WOULD NOT WORK, day or night, and because they issued us those GPS units, we were required to get all 5 points of 5, instead of 3 of five at night and 4 of five at day. Anyway, I of course drew the longest, most protracted points through the woods, and in the rain day and night (night vision, even gen.3 PVS14's, don't work well in the woods in the rain with overcast and no moon!) I still was able to get all the points thanks to good map skills.
Good luck!
Re: land nav. help
thanks alot for the info I will def. be looking into it. Great info and help
thanks alot for the info I will def. be looking into it. Great info and help
Re: land nav. help
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clarkarchery</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone know where I could get some land nav training.</div></div>
lol, join the army.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clarkarchery</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone know where I could get some land nav training.</div></div>
lol, join the army.
Re: land nav. help
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Red Belly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Depending on what you are looking for REI has classes on orienteering & GPS usage. You can very well get the basics on land nav in a class like that. Sometimes it doesn't cost anything for the class either. Hope that helps. </div></div>
Best bet right here. REI still sells that "old fashioned" stuff, like compasses and maps.
Competitive orienteering used to be a popular (at least to some) sport. The Army FM is a good place to start, but I think you really need hands on training with an experienced teacher. It is a perishable skill.
BTW, just read that the Army is going back to making manual land nav a priority.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Red Belly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Depending on what you are looking for REI has classes on orienteering & GPS usage. You can very well get the basics on land nav in a class like that. Sometimes it doesn't cost anything for the class either. Hope that helps. </div></div>
Best bet right here. REI still sells that "old fashioned" stuff, like compasses and maps.
Competitive orienteering used to be a popular (at least to some) sport. The Army FM is a good place to start, but I think you really need hands on training with an experienced teacher. It is a perishable skill.
BTW, just read that the Army is going back to making manual land nav a priority.
Re: land nav. help
the search and rescue lead or if you are a EMT , medical responder or LE , you can get in with your states EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT agency (TN is called TEMA) and ours hosts a class or two annually
also there are several books ( wilderness navigation handbook by fred touche, ) i have this book , highly recommend this book
website called www.maptools.com
also, www.badlandstactical.org (they teach land nav, military style, with map, UTM grids, and UTM grid map, as part of their sniper courses, phase 2 and phase 3) I HIGHLY RECOMMEND THEM
for maps , as stated already, www.mytopo.com is a fantastic source, you can customize your map to the size you need (like 5 kilometer by 5 kilometer for a practice area) you can have them add in UTM grids (1k square grid line markings ) on the map, they pre fold them and laminate or waterproof them as well
I highly recommend www.mytopo.com
hope this helps !
George
the search and rescue lead or if you are a EMT , medical responder or LE , you can get in with your states EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT agency (TN is called TEMA) and ours hosts a class or two annually
also there are several books ( wilderness navigation handbook by fred touche, ) i have this book , highly recommend this book
website called www.maptools.com
also, www.badlandstactical.org (they teach land nav, military style, with map, UTM grids, and UTM grid map, as part of their sniper courses, phase 2 and phase 3) I HIGHLY RECOMMEND THEM
for maps , as stated already, www.mytopo.com is a fantastic source, you can customize your map to the size you need (like 5 kilometer by 5 kilometer for a practice area) you can have them add in UTM grids (1k square grid line markings ) on the map, they pre fold them and laminate or waterproof them as well
I highly recommend www.mytopo.com
hope this helps !
George
Re: land nav. help
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Legionaire23</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clarkarchery</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone know where I could get some land nav training.</div></div>
lol, join the army. </div></div>
What he said!!
You could also link in with an ROTC program and go out with them. Or, if there is an installation near you buy someone that isn't an idiot a case of beer or some Old Crow and they would most likely be willing to help.
Learn the basics and don't really on GPS. Use the GPS to validate/confirm your work. USGS sells maps; I would suggest 1/24000. Get a good compass, make or buy a protractor (I have made field expedient ones before) and focus on the basics. Learn orienteering (reading the terrain to help determine your location). Learn your pace count.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Legionaire23</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clarkarchery</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone know where I could get some land nav training.</div></div>
lol, join the army. </div></div>
What he said!!
You could also link in with an ROTC program and go out with them. Or, if there is an installation near you buy someone that isn't an idiot a case of beer or some Old Crow and they would most likely be willing to help.
Learn the basics and don't really on GPS. Use the GPS to validate/confirm your work. USGS sells maps; I would suggest 1/24000. Get a good compass, make or buy a protractor (I have made field expedient ones before) and focus on the basics. Learn orienteering (reading the terrain to help determine your location). Learn your pace count.
Re: land nav. help
Google is your friend. Type in "Land Navigation", and "Orienteering"
As to laminating, I print out my own maps from topozone, in whatever size I want,on card stock, then laminate them with clear contact shelf paper. Works GREAT.
I cut the sheets into pocket sizes, then lay them out on a sheet of laminate, with a tiny bit of space between them all, and fold it over to stick them down. That way I can fold the entire map sheet easily into a pocket sized bundle, with the immediate area I am using exposed.
Never had a leak, tear or worn spot and I have used the same map sheet 5 years running in my elk hunting area.
I use a Silva Ranger compass, and have another like it in my pack as a back up. Yes, I have a GPS, but those old skills need some love too.
Google is your friend. Type in "Land Navigation", and "Orienteering"
As to laminating, I print out my own maps from topozone, in whatever size I want,on card stock, then laminate them with clear contact shelf paper. Works GREAT.
I cut the sheets into pocket sizes, then lay them out on a sheet of laminate, with a tiny bit of space between them all, and fold it over to stick them down. That way I can fold the entire map sheet easily into a pocket sized bundle, with the immediate area I am using exposed.
Never had a leak, tear or worn spot and I have used the same map sheet 5 years running in my elk hunting area.
I use a Silva Ranger compass, and have another like it in my pack as a back up. Yes, I have a GPS, but those old skills need some love too.
Re: land nav. help
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: banshee sws</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the search and rescue lead or if you are a EMT , medical responder or LE , you can get in with your states EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT agency (TN is called TEMA) and ours hosts a class or two annually
also there are several books ( wilderness navigation handbook by fred touche, ) i have this book , highly recommend this book
website called www.maptools.com
also, www.badlandstactical.org (they teach land nav, military style, with map, UTM grids, and UTM grid map, as part of their sniper courses, phase 2 and phase 3) I HIGHLY RECOMMEND THEM
for maps , as stated already, www.mytopo.com is a fantastic source, you can customize your map to the size you need (like 5 kilometer by 5 kilometer for a practice area) you can have them add in UTM grids (1k square grid line markings ) on the map, they pre fold them and laminate or waterproof them as well
I highly recommend www.mytopo.com
hope this helps !
George
</div></div>
+1 Mytopo is great.
check out the outward bound basic land navigation manual.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: banshee sws</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the search and rescue lead or if you are a EMT , medical responder or LE , you can get in with your states EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT agency (TN is called TEMA) and ours hosts a class or two annually
also there are several books ( wilderness navigation handbook by fred touche, ) i have this book , highly recommend this book
website called www.maptools.com
also, www.badlandstactical.org (they teach land nav, military style, with map, UTM grids, and UTM grid map, as part of their sniper courses, phase 2 and phase 3) I HIGHLY RECOMMEND THEM
for maps , as stated already, www.mytopo.com is a fantastic source, you can customize your map to the size you need (like 5 kilometer by 5 kilometer for a practice area) you can have them add in UTM grids (1k square grid line markings ) on the map, they pre fold them and laminate or waterproof them as well
I highly recommend www.mytopo.com
hope this helps !
George
</div></div>
+1 Mytopo is great.
check out the outward bound basic land navigation manual.
youtube keyword land nav there some 1966 army training videos
I get all my maps from mytopo and I use 1-25.000 or1-50.000 1-25.000 is easier to read but 1-50.000 gives you twice as much area for the same money
Contact your local SAR outfit and I am sure they could teach you basic land nav. I joined the military and spent countless hours walking around Camp Pendleton looking for ammo cans on their nav course so I have had enough of that fun. If all else fails, buy some books and teach yourself.
Something just as important as the pace count is the use of backstops, handrails and off sets.
Backstop - it may be a creek, ridge, road, etc. but when you set the point you're going to, look for something that if you hit it, you know you've gone too far.
Handrail - open area (if depicted on your map), rivers, power lines, roads, ridges, draws, etc.. you basically follow this to a predetermined point
Off Set - instead of moving directly to your point, it's often easier to move to a more recognizable point, then take an azimuth and pace count to your point (last couple hundred meters or so).
Another thing if you're running a stake course or a point sitter under a poncho with a chemlite (like many military land nav courses); when you shoot your final azimuth and calculate your pace count to the point, when you get to your pace count. Stop take a look around, often a point sitter will be close but you missed him. Get a good look at your surroundings, then begin to make expanding circles out from that point.
Never try to move directly point to point. Assuming this isn't a tactical movement, stay out of the really low areas and hit the high ground to haul ass then take your time closing in on the point. Often the quickest way to your point is the long way.
There isn't one perfect way for landnav. Everyone has different ability in evaluating the terrain and map. Practice it often. It might help for you to get an etrex or some sort of GPS and use it only to verify what you think about your surroundings and map reading.
Backstop - it may be a creek, ridge, road, etc. but when you set the point you're going to, look for something that if you hit it, you know you've gone too far.
Handrail - open area (if depicted on your map), rivers, power lines, roads, ridges, draws, etc.. you basically follow this to a predetermined point
Off Set - instead of moving directly to your point, it's often easier to move to a more recognizable point, then take an azimuth and pace count to your point (last couple hundred meters or so).
Another thing if you're running a stake course or a point sitter under a poncho with a chemlite (like many military land nav courses); when you shoot your final azimuth and calculate your pace count to the point, when you get to your pace count. Stop take a look around, often a point sitter will be close but you missed him. Get a good look at your surroundings, then begin to make expanding circles out from that point.
Never try to move directly point to point. Assuming this isn't a tactical movement, stay out of the really low areas and hit the high ground to haul ass then take your time closing in on the point. Often the quickest way to your point is the long way.
There isn't one perfect way for landnav. Everyone has different ability in evaluating the terrain and map. Practice it often. It might help for you to get an etrex or some sort of GPS and use it only to verify what you think about your surroundings and map reading.
anal beads work for pace beads, every 100 meters pull out one ball, once it has reached the end and falls on the ground you've gone one click. eeeeaaaasy peeeezey
"Go Ruck" it's a company run by ex-spec ops guys. They have all kinds of military style classes, including some mountaineering courses which include land Nav... You have to complete their Go Ruck Challenge first to have access to the other courses though.
