Pretty much narrowed down scope options for a McMillan STAR in 6.5 CM to the NF 3.5x15x50 F1 or a S&B PMII 3x20x50. Any experiences/recommendations?
Rifle Scopes NF 3.5x15x50 F1 or S&B PMII 3x20x50
- Thread starter ZiaHunter
- Start date
I use F1s and have tried the S&B 5-25 during an eval. My takeaways.
F1 Notes
Extremely rugged.
Turrets have fewer places for water/grit to enter.
Illumination is simple.
Power adjustment is fast as you just grab the entire ocular and turn it.
Lifetime warranty.
Includes a good set of rings.
1/3rd cheaper then S&B
S&B 5-25 Notes
Maybe better glass than the F1.
Maybe not as rugged? (my subjective opinion)
Warranty is only two years.
Uses a rotating power ring instead of full ocular which some may prefer over the NF.
The 5-25 scope will tunnel under about 7X of power.
Illumination is easier to adjust than NF.
Turrets are locking so they can't be knocked around when walking with the rifle.
Extra features of turrets give more areas for water/dirt to enter.
No rings.
Overall, I stuck with the F1 and have no regrets. It's a rugged and reliable scope.
F1 Notes
Extremely rugged.
Turrets have fewer places for water/grit to enter.
Illumination is simple.
Power adjustment is fast as you just grab the entire ocular and turn it.
Lifetime warranty.
Includes a good set of rings.
1/3rd cheaper then S&B
S&B 5-25 Notes
Maybe better glass than the F1.
Maybe not as rugged? (my subjective opinion)
Warranty is only two years.
Uses a rotating power ring instead of full ocular which some may prefer over the NF.
The 5-25 scope will tunnel under about 7X of power.
Illumination is easier to adjust than NF.
Turrets are locking so they can't be knocked around when walking with the rifle.
Extra features of turrets give more areas for water/dirt to enter.
No rings.
Overall, I stuck with the F1 and have no regrets. It's a rugged and reliable scope.
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If you have a chance pick up both and look through them. XOR's points are spot on. If you plan to shoot out to 1K then I would seriously consider the S&B.
15 vs 20x...
would it be better to pick what power you want, THEN look at what scopes offer the features you want?...
would it be better to pick what power you want, THEN look at what scopes offer the features you want?...
I've got the Nightforce on my personal .308 and the 3-12x PMII on my .300 and at work. I have to say its a real toss up between the two for me. Like XOR mentioned, the NF definitely has a more robust/durable feel to it, but the optical clarity on the S&B is better (not by much). My one complaint on the NF is when the power is all the way back the reticle gets kind of thin for my liking and the finer details are hard to make out at times. I would say just go with the Nightforce though for the simple fact that its cheaper, an American Company, and comes with pretty nice rings.
Yep. I goofed when typing the above. It was the 5-25. Fixed.
Pretty sure Nightforce is Australian-owned. However, they are making scopes here and in Japan.
I wasn't sure about it so I double checked, they were founded in and based out of Idaho. According to the website all their scopes are inspected there. They have a subsidiary in Australia, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were made in Japan though.
The F1 has a made in the USA stamp on it!
They were not founded in the USA. What is your source on that? And unless they've broken off, they're still owned by Lightforce, an Australian company and is who started them. News | Nightforce Optics, Inc.
The majority of the NXS series and bench rest scopes have always been made in Japan. There have been numerous threads about this. The compacts, F1, and many if not all their newest scopes are made in the USA with some components (glass primarily) sourced from other countries.
Old news...
Oh, OP, you're going to have to give more info than rifle specs for anyone to give you a realistic and accurate recommendation. What are you doing with this 6.5....
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If you want the robustness and durability, and don't want to compromise glass, I would look at Premier's 3-15 Heritage. It is one of the more robust designs I have seen, and glass that will be as good or better than anything out there. Just another option, but any of the scopes mentioned are more than capable.
My mistake, I was going of the Company "Our Story" part of their website.
Seriously, "in every aspect" those scopes are better to you than an F1?
No kidding. Glass is better, sure. Durability? On this site alone, I don't think I've yet seen a thread yet on a smashed NF. S&B and Premiere do have a few....
Yes he is serious. I've had several NF F1's. NF makes good scopes. Schmidt and Premier (I own and use several of each) are superior in nearly every way.
While we have similar experiences, we definitely have different results. When you say "nearly every way", what ways are those?
Decided to go with the S&B with the H59 reticle. Already three NF scopes so decided I would give it a try. Should have it in 6 to 8 weeks
lets not forget FFP S&B has better turret design to me with the doubleturn
I mentioned that my statement was "my opinion." I know people who prefer NF over S&B and Premier, mostly because they are SFP shooters. NF are solid and I wouldn't be opposed to owning one but TO ME if we're talking about what scope is better between the NF or S&B, I'm gonna say S&B every time.
First off, let me say that NF makes great scopes. However, in my opinion, S&B has better glass. Clarity, contrast, resolution, and color rendition to to Schmidt. I prefer the Schmidt turrets as well in feel and design. I prefer the illumination design of Schmidt. That said, I still like NF, and I say if one prefers the NF then they have their reasons and who am I to judge another's personal preferences.
No question. NF is ok but if you want the best= SnB. I have owned both, sold my f1 a year ago.
Scope preferences is always turning into a this is better than that sort of competition...no matter if you ask the question on the internet or face to face...the end result is always the same; people share and talk about there own experiences. And rightly so.
Same goes for my experiences. I have been a Nightforce advocate for many years, having owned NXS2,5-10, NXS 5,5-22 NF 8-32 and the NF12-42x scopes. However, sometimes you get other stuff so also have had the S&B 3-12x, S&B 5-25x, Hensoldt 4-16x, Hensoldt 6-24x72mm on my sticks. The last 2 years i got the Prem Ret 5-25x and hopefully will get to play with the new Hensoldt 3,5-26 before the end of this year.
The glass of the S&Bs, the Hensolds and even the Prem ret looks but mostly feel a little better, concerning brightness and contrast. However, most shooters will never see this difference, only tactical guys and hunters will get to notice this when playing around during dusk or dawn.
So it all comes down to durability, ease of operation and own preferences concerning locations and operations of items like elevation, windage, paralax knobs and oculair/ dioptrie settings.
And all the above mentioned scopes are equal in that department. However...Nightforce is 1/3 cheaper...but only maybe 1/8 or even smaller less in quality.
And when the weather or conditions are hell (constant rain or sand) than all scopes will brake down.
I have seen Nightforce scopes, both NF and NXS versions break down during what Brittish shooters call a "simple" mediocre rainy day....(gladly none of my own). Did however have had to sent back a S&B and a Hensoldt back to factories, the S&B stopped tracking, and the Hensoldt stopt zooming.
In the end all scopes can brake down, no matter how much money you spend. So for me, i always try to choose a scope which comes closest to my wishes, and those are simple; good glass, mil clicks and ffp mil reticle, and the biggest zoom capabillity with a 5x being the max low end mag, and a 25 being the max low end for higher magnification. IF there will ever be a scope that goes from 1-30x, that will be my next one. For now i am more than pleased with my Prem Ret 5-25 which i used the most. The 3,5-26 however will be a step up for me personally, one i gladly do not have to pay for myself...because that is the next big issue...how rediculous the prices have become for those "high-end" scopes.
Again, money wise the Nightforce scopes beat all the others. (although the Beast and Atacr aint no leupold prices either...)
Same goes for my experiences. I have been a Nightforce advocate for many years, having owned NXS2,5-10, NXS 5,5-22 NF 8-32 and the NF12-42x scopes. However, sometimes you get other stuff so also have had the S&B 3-12x, S&B 5-25x, Hensoldt 4-16x, Hensoldt 6-24x72mm on my sticks. The last 2 years i got the Prem Ret 5-25x and hopefully will get to play with the new Hensoldt 3,5-26 before the end of this year.
The glass of the S&Bs, the Hensolds and even the Prem ret looks but mostly feel a little better, concerning brightness and contrast. However, most shooters will never see this difference, only tactical guys and hunters will get to notice this when playing around during dusk or dawn.
So it all comes down to durability, ease of operation and own preferences concerning locations and operations of items like elevation, windage, paralax knobs and oculair/ dioptrie settings.
And all the above mentioned scopes are equal in that department. However...Nightforce is 1/3 cheaper...but only maybe 1/8 or even smaller less in quality.
And when the weather or conditions are hell (constant rain or sand) than all scopes will brake down.
I have seen Nightforce scopes, both NF and NXS versions break down during what Brittish shooters call a "simple" mediocre rainy day....(gladly none of my own). Did however have had to sent back a S&B and a Hensoldt back to factories, the S&B stopped tracking, and the Hensoldt stopt zooming.
In the end all scopes can brake down, no matter how much money you spend. So for me, i always try to choose a scope which comes closest to my wishes, and those are simple; good glass, mil clicks and ffp mil reticle, and the biggest zoom capabillity with a 5x being the max low end mag, and a 25 being the max low end for higher magnification. IF there will ever be a scope that goes from 1-30x, that will be my next one. For now i am more than pleased with my Prem Ret 5-25 which i used the most. The 3,5-26 however will be a step up for me personally, one i gladly do not have to pay for myself...because that is the next big issue...how rediculous the prices have become for those "high-end" scopes.
Again, money wise the Nightforce scopes beat all the others. (although the Beast and Atacr aint no leupold prices either...)
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I have had/have/looked through almost all the scopes listed in this thread but the Premier Heritage which I wish one of my friends would buy so I could look through it. I do believe that the Nightforce NXS and FFP F1 is the best bang for the buck in what is listed on here and I have several for different rifles. When it comes to glass crispness and clarity it is hands down S&B but I have never felt that I was at a disadvantage by sitting behind my Nightforce optics in any way. Is a $2100 F1 over a $1000 difference from an S&B worth the advantages you gain from the S&B? I have never found that to be true but if I had the money and an S&B was sitting there I would buy it but if I only had 2k than I would get a F1 and feel just as good.
I went through the same thing recently to glass up my 6.5 CM rifle. I ended up going with the premier LT 3-15. Just looking through the glass, I'm happy.
I have both and a NF isn't a bad stopgap until you can get a S&B. 
A little late to the party, but I have both, and In my opinion the Schmidt's glass makes the F1 look like a cheap Walmart scope.
