anneling question

[DJ 480]

i was anneling some Hornaday Match brass and I noticed that none of it turns blue after normal anneling, only way to get some sort of a blue color is after the neck glows red. Other than that most of the brass has either an orange hue to the neck and shoulder or looks normal.


any help would be appreciated

 

[ZiaHunter]

Different makes of brass will exhibit various hues after annealing and some not at all. I anneal on a Vertex annealer and coloration will vary even with the same time and heat settings. Best to get some Tempilaq so you won't be guessing. If the neck is glowing red chances are you are overheating it.

 

[Capt Academy]

DJ480, my Hornady brass was the same.

 

[RHunter]

Red= Way too hot!

How much zinc is present in the brass will affect the coloration when annealed. About 650 degrees is the right temp and this is achieved just before the brass begins to glow.

 

[Capt Academy]

I had expected the brass I annealed to look like the factory annealed Hornday or Lapua brass, but it didn't.

 

[thrusty]

It's not color that you are trying to achieve when annealing...it is temperature.

Use a small amount of Templiq 650 or 700 degree indicator on the inside of a few case mouths to get a good idea on how many seconds of heat to apply for your given brass before achieving the appropriate temperature. My Hornady brass only takes about 6-7 seconds to reach temperature.....and no, it doesn't yield that fancy factory blue either.

I believe there are some additives that the manufactures include on the brass at the time of production that may help in creating that factory-new annealed look that you're trying to achieve.

 

[Temp9]

It also depends heavily on what cleaning method was used. Annealing new brass (ie. new Winchester 22-250 being formed to 6XC) gives me that beautiful blue/red/gold/grey color of factory annealed brass. But with SS tumbled brass, I get a much more subdued gold/brown color. Same times, same brass, same heat source.

 

[High Binder]

The blue/purple colors you're seeing is a result of oxidation (an interaction of the metals and O2 in the air[and/or H2O]) and is normal and in no way harmful.

 

[rsplante]

The blue/purple colors you're seeing is a result of oxidation (an interaction of the metals and O2 in the air[and/or H2O]) and is normal and in no way harmful.

Uh, I think you are missing their point. I read this as them WANTING it to look like factory annealing with blue/purple colors, and wondering if they were doing something wrong since their results do not look like factory.

 

[Capt Academy]

Correct rsplante, I did not know if I was annealing correctly since my finished brass did not look like a new factory Lapua or Hornady.

 

[rsplante]

Correct rsplante, I did not know if I was annealing correctly since my finished brass did not look like a new factory Lapua or Hornady.

I figure I have another two weeks to wait before my Giraud arrives. New Page 1
Then I will know that my brass is properly annealed.

 

[High Binder]

Uh, I think you are missing their point. I read this as them WANTING it to look like factory annealing with blue/purple colors, and wondering if they were doing something wrong since their results do not look like factory.

Oh sorry, I'll refrain from posting peripheral info in the future because nobody here wants to learn anything that wasn't exactly what was asked... Right?

 

[Layton]

Then I will know that my brass is properly annealed.

Not really. You still need to have a way of making sure it's set correctly and templiq is the best way most have found and what I use with my Giraud. If you are relying solely on color you could be getting it too hot.

L

 

[rsplante]

Oh sorry, I'll refrain from posting peripheral info in the future because nobody here wants to learn anything that wasn't exactly what was asked... Right?

The reason I said that is because you seemed to be reassuring everyone that having oxidation in the form of a blue/purple coloring was in no way harmful, when nobody had implied that it was harmful. Quite the opposite, they were seeking that very same blue/purple coloring on their brass and were wondering if they were doing something wrong if that blue/purple coloring was not showing up on their brass.

 

[rsplante]

Not really. You still need to have a way of making sure it's set correctly and templiq is the best way most have found and what I use with my Giraud. If you are relying solely on color you could be getting it too hot.

L

Nope. I'm not relying on coloring, only explaining my understanding of the OP post. I had planned on relying on Doug Giraud's suggestion of 6.5 seonds for .223 cases; however, if you think I should actually test that for myself with Tempilaq, I am certainly open to that suggestion. I already have a bottle of 475degF Tempilaq from a Hornady annealing kit which I can use mid-case for the low end, but I will need to acquire the 750degF stuff for the neck.

 

[Layton]

It's not the time, it's the flame. 6.5 secs is a good guideline but could vary depending on how hot you have your flame. It's worth the small investment to me to ensure I'm not cooking my brass.

L

 

[rsplante]

It's not the time, it's the flame. 6.5 secs is a good guideline but could vary depending on how hot you have your flame. It's worth the small investment to me to ensure I'm not cooking my brass.

L

I hear you. I guess I was relying on his description of the right flame size from the torch he is supplying. He said for the inner cone to be adjusted to 0.5 inch. Considering that Propane has a pretty consistent combustion temp, it is the same torch, and I will adjust the size to his specifications... but I understand what you are saying. I usually buy really unusual things such as Tempilaq online, any idea where I could find something like that in the fourth largest city in the country, on a Saturday (yeah, I'm a little anxious to try it out.) Maybe Doug will have some ideas.

 

[Layton]

I have some 700 you can have. I'll be at Bayou Rifles in the morning shooting that match and will take it with me if you're in the area or I can meet you after on the way back. I have to come back through the middle of town.

L

 

[rsplante]

I have some 700 you can have. I'll be at Bayou Rifles in the morning shooting that match and will take it with me if you're in the area or I can meet you after on the way back. I have to come back through the middle of town.

L

Gee thanks, I appreciate that. I'll be there, that will be my first experience shooting at 600yd.

 

[rsplante]

I have some 700 you can have. I'll be at Bayou Rifles in the morning shooting that match and will take it with me if you're in the area or I can meet you after on the way back. I have to come back through the middle of town.

L

Thanks Layton. I ran a test run with 5 or 6 cases. You were right about needing the Tempilaq, it turns out that I was not able to follow Doug's directions exactly. The torch is supposed to be adjusted so that the central cone is 1/2 inch long. Before I could reduce it below 1 inch, it went out. I tried about 6 or 7 times and finally went with the 1"+ cone length, which is probably much hotter. I will have to fool with moving the torch further away, or lowering the time below the recommended 6.5 sec.

Anyway, good meeting you today, and thanks again for the Tempilaq.