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Rifle Scopes My Vortex 6x24x50 PST... You fellows need to know..

Aimsmall55

Aimsmall55

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 23, 2010
2,714
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Madison, Ms
I just wanted to relay something that I've actually posted before and it has happened 2 times since. I bought the Viper back when it first came out. I put it on a .300 win mag with a thruster brake. For the first year it worked GREAT. Tracking was dead on , ect. But after a while I began to notice that the scope dial values were not adding up and I was constantly having to reset my zero. I talked to a buddy and he told me to put the rifle in a FIRM vice and tap the bell. Sure enough, the whole reticle moved!! The concussion from the muzzle brake had literally broken the etching.
I shipped it back got it fixed no big deal. Fast forward ... Within 3 months it had happened again twice and I received a new scope. This one lasted 1 month or so. The turrets were not moving up and down but rather at a 45 degree angle. Like this /. So I called Vortex shipped it back and got it fixed.
Vortex was great and deeply apologized for the problems I was having. But let it be known, magnum rifles with brakes like Thruster WILL Fu#% up your Vortex. I have since retired my Viper to the Scope Storage Closet.
Just wanted to share my experience and hopefully save you fellas some grief. AS
 
I managed to detach the reticles in 2 6-24 FFP PSTs on the same morning on a Remington .338 Ultra Mag hunting rifle that belongs to a friend. Light stock, light profile barrel, and a radial brake.

After a couple of shots to zero the scope the POI started drifting. Made some corrections and took a couple of shots and the POI moved more and the knobs didn't track right. A couple more shots and there was tons of debris on the reticle and it was obvious the reticle had detatched & rotated.

So I mounted up the 2nd 6-24 FFP PST I had on hand and the same thing happened to it. Managed to break 2 scopes in a couple of hours with less than 20 rounds fired.

Vortex fixed both scopes ASAP and so far they've been holding up OK... hopefully they'll live. If it was my hunting rifle I think I'd be switching to a different optic for peace of mind!

Haven't had a single issue with a Razor HD 5-20 or a Razor HD spotting scope... love both of those.
 
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They have a good warranty and support the shooting community so we should look past their inadequacies.
 
I would say their track record of putting out really high quality scopes for half the price of some of their competitors outweighs one incident of someone having bad luck with their scopes. I can't count the number of times I have heard great things about their scopes. I have 2 Vortex scopes personally with no problems. I have owned others from Viper to Crossfire (the original series) and have NEVER had a problem with any products. If they replace it and it doesn't happen again, does it really matter if one person had one bad string of luck??? I've had Leupold scopes break on me, and I continue to buy those too because of the warranty and where they are made.
 
I guess I'm wondering if other scopes would hold up much better with that rifle and brake combination.
 
bombadillo said:
I would say their track record of putting out really high quality scopes for half the price of some of their competitors outweighs one incident of someone having bad luck with their scopes. I can't count the number of times I have heard great things about their scopes. I have 2 Vortex scopes personally with no problems. I have owned others from Viper to Crossfire (the original series) and have NEVER had a problem with any products. If they replace it and it doesn't happen again, does it really matter if one person had one bad string of luck??? I've had Leupold scopes break on me, and I continue to buy those too because of the warranty and where they are made.
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Lmao!!! I guess it would matter if it was YOU that had the bad luck. JeeZ..... Talk about Monday morning quarterbacking!!
 
And I never said they weren't good scopes... There is just a limit to what kind of beating they can take. Also , this IS NOT AN ISOLATED INCIDENT. I've talked to several guys who have had the same thing happen. One more thing : I wouldn't exactly call 4 "repair jobs" a string of bad luck. If I were that unlucky , I'd probably not even be on Gods Green Earth
 
Vortex is successful because of their warranty.... the actual product is lacking in quality. I still think (for the $) their worth a try.
 
No armchair quarterbacking here. I get out and use my Vortex scopes often. Never an issue, and I've had others from Leupold and some cheaper scopes break as well. Sure, it sucks to have something break, but imagine if you bought from Nikon or other scope with a limited warranty and you were outside of the warranty. I'm not being a jerk, I'm just looking at their products bang for the buck, warranty, and overall track record. They are great for the money, and occasionally you will get one that will break. The same thing can be said of USO, Nightforce, or even GASP......S&B. Cheers.
 
bombadillo said:
No armchair quarterbacking here. I get out and use my Vortex scopes often. Never an issue, and I've had others from Leupold and some cheaper scopes break as well. Sure, it sucks to have something break, but imagine if you bought from Nikon or other scope with a limited warranty and you were outside of the warranty. I'm not being a jerk, I'm just looking at their products bang for the buck, warranty, and overall track record. They are great for the money, and occasionally you will get one that will break. The same thing can be said of USO, Nightforce, or even GASP......S&B. Cheers.
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If you had to repair a USO, Nightforce, or S&B 4 times in any reasonable amount of time, I would be very surprised. I think the Razor is a nice piece.
 
I am getting my pst 6x24x50 ready to go back to vortex. It came with two inclusions on the reticle. Past 16 power they are gone anything below you see them. Not what I was hoping for buying a $1000 scope.
 
Aimsmall55 said:
And I never said they weren't good scopes... There is just a limit to what kind of beating they can take. Also , this IS NOT AN ISOLATED INCIDENT. I've talked to several guys who have had the same thing happen. One more thing : I wouldn't exactly call 4 "repair jobs" a string of bad luck. If I were that unlucky , I'd probably not even be on Gods Green Earth
Click to expand...

Well said. You touched on some major points that I agreed with. They are great scopes, at a great price, with a great warranty. However, based on your analysis there appears to be a limitation to what the scope can withstand. I don't recall it stating .50 cal approved in the description either. Someone with a .308 or below would most likely be well pleased for a long time with this purchase. For the majority of people out there this scope will never see a .338 or .50 etc.
 
just picked up a 6-24x50 pst ffp, was thinking about getting a 300 win mag to put it on. kinda wish i would have seen this b4 picking one up. hopefully it serves me well on my 308
 
Weather anybody likes it or not, EVERYTHING breaks. Sure there is such a thing as quality in products, but I doubt that a company would give such a good warranty knowing there product was of poor quality. That definitely doesn't make them the best either. As we all know, the bad stories seem to stand out more than the good. I would put a bet that if you searched about the scopes you will find more people pleased than not.
 
I have one of these on my .338 Edge with a muscle 4 port brake. I've got 150 rounds through it and so far so good. Hope it stays that way.
 
Hook Creek said:
Weather anybody likes it or not, EVERYTHING breaks. Sure there is such a thing as quality in products, but I doubt that a company would give such a good warranty knowing there product was of poor quality. That definitely doesn't make them the best either. As we all know, the bad stories seem to stand out more than the good. I would put a bet that if you searched about the scopes you will find more people pleased than not.
Click to expand...


Holy Shit!!!! I am not dogging Vortex!! I'm just stating that if your shooting a God damned cannon with a fucking muzzle brake..... It might fail on you. That's it!!
 
i hope i dont sound stupid here....thinking im going to!! doesnt a muzzle break reduce recoil which would help aid the scopes durability? was going to put one on my 308 but maybe i dont understand it fully. never had one before. dont be to harsh!
 
bloodsport06 said:
i hope i dont sound stupid here....thinking im going to!! doesnt a muzzle break reduce recoil which would help aid the scopes durability? was going to put one on my 308 but maybe i dont understand it fully. never had one before. dont be to harsh!
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It's not the recoil, it's the concussive forces pushed "sideways" instead of " out , away from the shooter". Imagine standing next to a small explosion. The shrapnel didn't get you so you think your fine. Then you realize your blown to kingdom come by the blast itself. All due to the shockwave from the blast. It's the same principal with glass
 
About 6 months ago I had the exact same thing happen to my Viper PST 6-24x50 FFP on a Savage 110 FCP .338 LM. I was trying to do initial load development when all of a sudden everything I tried was going backwards. I owe Aimsmall a debt of gratitude for helping me figure out what was going on. Because these scopes had such a great reputation I didn't really believe it was at fault after only 100 or so rounds. Aimsmall challenged me to send the scope back to Vortex and sure enough, it was broken. To their credit, I got a new scope, but because of our combined experiences I traded it back in to the dealer (still NIB) for a Nightforce. I really liked the Vortex, and I liked their CS. I couldn't have asked for nicer people to deal with. I just think their QC may not be quite up to the level required for a big bore. I don't mean to say that they aren't up to the task. I'm sure there are a lot of these scopes out there that will give great service from now on. But after Aimsmall's and my experiences, I read of several others here with the same experience. Understandably, I just wasn't willing to risk all that load development work going down the drain again.

Aimsmall said that Vortex told him the muzzle brake was what caused his failures (they didn't offer a reason for mine). Like Bloodsport, I'm not sure I buy that explanation. I can't see where a brake can do anything but HELP a scope. Recoil is the big killer. I think they are claiming some kind of pressure wave coming off the brake or something, but I mean - your face is right there next to the scope. If that were the case, you'd be catching the same punch as the scope and I sure have never felt anything odd like that. I could see where you wouldn't want your scope sitting out BESIDE the brake (or behind and off to the side), but straight-back behind it should not be an issue. On the other hand, as for recoil, my .338 LM is a lot more pleasant than my stock .30-06 A-Bolt!

Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks again to Aimsmall who saved me a lot of trouble by sharing his experience and pointing me straight to the problem and solution.
 
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Obv there is something going on but I would think the physical recoil would impact more than then gases
 
The scope doesn't feel the sideways blast of a brake very much. The reason brakes break scopes :) is that more basic scopes are designed only to handle backwards recoil, not to handle forwards recoil. A brake causes the scope to experience a very brief initial backwards recoil, then reversed to a forwards movement from the brake's force. With magnum class rifles and effective brakes the forces are high both ways. Some scopes are designed to hold up to recoil-speed forces in both directions, others are not. A hunting weight magnum rifle with an effective brake causes severe stresses on the scope (as does a lighter weight 50 BMG with a good brake).

In some cases air rifles can break scopes for the same reason - forward "recoil" from their spring piston, which many scopes are not designed to withstand. This is one of the reasons (along with parallax settings) that special airgun scopes exist.
 
K_4c said:
Vortex is successful because of their warranty.... the actual product is lacking in quality. I still think (for the $) their worth a try.
Click to expand...

I have a Razor 1-6x and it's damn near perfect, one of the best scopes I've owned if not the best.

But I've owned four Viper PST's and only have one still (the FFP 2.5-10x32). The Viper PST line offers a ton of features at the price - just about everything they could think of, I guess. I'm sure that some compromises had to be made for the price point - in fact some of those are obvious, like the glass quality in certain models. They sell like hotcakes because they offer the features of high end scopes at the price of upper midrange scopes. But I don't think you can expect the quality of high end scopes along with the lower price and high feature set. Pay your money and take your chances, I own a mix of Sightron SIII's and Bushnell Elite's for the range that the PST series covers.
 
Most of you guys know my opinion on Vortex products. I doubt these are isolated incidents. Many people have purchased Vortex products because their price-to-features ratio is high, ergo, the company has become highly popular in our sports (hunting/LRTR/PP). When these products break, not many people want to speak up. In my humble opinion, nobody wants to be the one to critique such a popular brand (in our smallish community). In my observations, it appears to be tantamount to heresy to say anything critiquing the brand.

There is a type of cognitive dissonance that occurs with some folks, wherein they simply cannot, or will not, believe these products break. I learned this when I ranted about the need to invoke the unlimited lifetime warranty on my two brand new Razors (and the other two Vortex scopes I needed to return). One dude was actually telling me I was wrong and that I was the problem. He told me what he "knew" my problem was and how to "fix" it. It was really bizarre.

Folks will be quick to point out, "all things mechanical break...S&B's, NF's, et al, break too." This issue is not worthy of argument due to the ubiquitous knowledge that mechanical items do break. It is the ratio of units sold/in the market vs units breaking and needing to be returned that is most notable. It would also be the most insightful pearl of information we could hope to obtain ;)

That being said, I read many shooting blogs, often. I do not often read about the warranties that come with other optics when they are referenced. I do, however, see it with Vortex.

I am not completely denigrating all-things Vortex, but I am definitely questioning the reliability and ruggedness of their products. As one of my buddy's pointed out, there is a reason for the unlimited lifetime warranty...you're going to need it.

And please do not confuse my opinion with a personal attack on folks who own these products. There is an absolute possibility that out of seven Vortex products, I happened to receive lemons in four of them. There is also the possibility that folks who spend 2-4K on an optic are in the same boat, in that they do not want to publicize the fact that their 4000.00 S&B had a canted reticle right out of the box. I think we need to be able to objectively review our gear and not become emotionally charged when it is critiqued.

Maybe there is a reason SWFA's SS line of scopes specifically states they are "OK for .50 cal."?
 
FALex said:
Most of you guys know my opinion on Vortex products. I doubt these are isolated incidents. Many people have purchased Vortex products because their price-to-features ratio is high, ergo, the company has become highly popular in our sports (hunting/LRTR/PP). When these products break, not many people want to speak up. In my humble opinion, nobody wants to be the one to critique such a popular brand (in our smallish community). In my observations, it appears to be tantamount to heresy to say anything critiquing the brand.

There is a type of cognitive dissonance that occurs with some folks, wherein they simply cannot, or will not, believe these products break. I learned this when I ranted about the need to invoke the unlimited lifetime warranty on my two brand new Razors (and the other two Vortex scopes I needed to return). One dude was actually telling me I was wrong and that I was the problem. He told me what he "knew" my problem was and how to "fix" it. It was really bizarre.

Folks will be quick to point out, "all things mechanical break...S&B's, NF's, et al, break too." This issue is not worthy of argument due to the ubiquitous knowledge that mechanical items do break. It is the ratio of units sold/in the market vs units breaking and needing to be returned that is most notable. It would also be the most insightful pearl of information we could hope to obtain ;)

That being said, I read many shooting blogs, often. I do not often read about the warranties that come with other optics when they are referenced. I do, however, see it with Vortex.

I am not completely denigrating all-things Vortex, but I am definitely questioning the reliability and ruggedness of their products. As one of my buddy's pointed out, there is a reason for the unlimited lifetime warranty...you're going to need it.

And please do not confuse my opinion with a personal attack on folks who own these products. There is an absolute possibility that out of seven Vortex products, I happened to receive lemons in four of them. There is also the possibility that folks who spend 2-4K on an optic are in the same boat, in that they do not want to publicize the fact that their 4000.00 S&B had a canted reticle right out of the box. I think we need to be able to objectively review our gear and not become emotionally charged when it is critiqued.

Maybe there is a reason SWFA's SS line of scopes specifically states they are "OK for .50 cal."?
Click to expand...


Yes Yes, this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
thanx for the heads up, I was planning on putting one of those on a 338 edge, but now I'll get something that can take the recoil.
 
SomeOtherGuy said:
The scope doesn't feel the sideways blast of a brake very much. The reason brakes break scopes :) is that more basic scopes are designed only to handle backwards recoil, not to handle forwards recoil. A brake causes the scope to experience a very brief initial backwards recoil, then reversed to a forwards movement from the brake's force. With magnum class rifles and effective brakes the forces are high both ways. Some scopes are designed to hold up to recoil-speed forces in both directions, others are not. A hunting weight magnum rifle with an effective brake causes severe stresses on the scope (as does a lighter weight 50 BMG with a good brake).

In some cases air rifles can break scopes for the same reason - forward "recoil" from their spring piston, which many scopes are not designed to withstand. This is one of the reasons (along with parallax settings) that special airgun scopes exist.
Click to expand...

Yes, this is correct. It's the brake. They bust a lot of good scopes. I busted a nice Leupold VX-2 on an air rifle. Forward movement will destroy them.
 
SomeOtherGuy said:
I have a Razor 1-6x and it's damn near perfect, one of the best scopes I've owned if not the best.

But I've owned four Viper PST's and only have one still (the FFP 2.5-10x32). The Viper PST line offers a ton of features at the price - just about everything they could think of, I guess. I'm sure that some compromises had to be made for the price point - in fact some of those are obvious, like the glass quality in certain models. They sell like hotcakes because they offer the features of high end scopes at the price of upper midrange scopes. But I don't think you can expect the quality of high end scopes along with the lower price and high feature set. Pay your money and take your chances, I own a mix of Sightron SIII's and Bushnell Elite's for the range that the PST series covers.[/]

Agreed. They earned their spot in the optic market. However, their warranty is what keeps them relative.
Click to expand...
 
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I have a 6-24 pst on a .300 mag with a brake. Savage 110BA. The last time I was out shooting the POI drifted 3MOA withing 5 rounds of match ammo. I was so sick about it, I put it up and have not shot it since and that was 3 months ago. Looks like I need to sell the PST after it gets back from getting fixed or put it on my 22lr. I wish I had not purchased it. What a pain in the ass. Still, I could not afford another S&B at the time so I got what I figured was the best for my money.
 
FALex said:
...the company has become highly popular in our sports (hunting/LRTR/PP). ... It is the ratio of units sold/in the market vs units breaking and needing to be returned that is most notable. I
Click to expand...

And how many Vortex scopes are out there versus the higher priced scopes???
 
Ah crap....I hate reading stuff like this. I JUST ordered a Vortex Razor HD 5-20 2B and I sure hope I don't have these problems like this. I have to SWFA scopes and they seem pretty good, especially my new 3-5x42 for my 6.5 Creedmore. I have a Falcon Menace which seems okay for my 7WSM and it seems to be holding up for 2+ years.

I'm planning on putting the Razor on my new .338 with a BIG MUZZLE BRAKE....You guys see any issues with the Razors? Or is it more with the cheaper Viper and PSTs? Any insight would be great!!! What do you think?
 
Flyboyzack said:
Ah crap....I hate reading stuff like this. I JUST ordered a Vortex Razor HD 5-20 2B and I sure hope I don't have these problems like this. I have to SWFA scopes and they seem pretty good, especially my new 3-5x42 for my 6.5 Creedmore. I have a Falcon Menace which seems okay for my 7WSM and it seems to be holding up for 2+ years.

I'm planning on putting the Razor on my new .338 with a BIG MUZZLE BRAKE....You guys see any issues with the Razors? Or is it more with the cheaper Viper and PSTs? Any insight would be great!!! What do you think?
Click to expand...

The Razor lineup is real solid. I don't think it will give you an ounce of trouble.
 
On the flip side, I ran a standard Viper and PST on a braked 7RM pushing 180's at a decent clip without issue.

I have to ask; how did the reticle break? Is it not etched into one of the lenses?
 
^^^^^^^^^^ I have one also on my DTA SRS A1 and so for no problems with the 260 & 308 conversions. I'll let you know if any issues develop when my 338 conversion arrives, but I doubt it! Seem to be solid great scope.
 
I have a friend that had the 4-16X50 PST on his Scar 17. He started having problem after a while with the scope holding zero. It was repaired/replaced? and no resides on one of his 5.56 AR's with no further problems.
 
So far that's 5 that have gotten the boot back to Vortex... If you were doing a post ratio of bad scopes / good scopes you'd get 5/43= more than 1 person out of 9 with problems. Not scientific by any means but it does say a lot.
 
I don't know exactly what broke on my scope. I first noticed a piece of debris, like about a 0.3 mil diameter flake of black paint, in the same focal plane as the reticle, stuck up in the corner of one of the upper quadrants. I asked the factory about it and they said not to worry, it was up to me if I wanted them to fix it but it was "just" a piece of debris and not significant. Shortly after that I began having trouble getting consistent results with my load development. The more I worked at it, the worse things got. I got suspicious and posted about the debris and the ever-increasing group size, and that's when Aimsmall came along and told me about the exact same things happening with his and what it turned out to be. I sent my scope back to Vortex and they verified that it would NOT hold zero, but never gave me the specifics of what the exact failure mode was, nor did they mention or ask me anything about muzzle brakes. They just said they were shipping me a new scope. I already knew I was going to trade it for another brand, so I didn't press them on the details. If they had chosen to repair mine and send it back, I'd have pressed a little more because I would have had to sell someone a used/repaired scope and I would have wanted to be able to tell the buyer exactly what had been done. As it was, I already had an agreement with my dealer to accept the new replacement back in trade at full value for another brand, so it didn't matter.
 
RobG said:
Weird. So the lens that was etched broke? I wonder if the lens was somehow loose in the tube which caused it to break.
Click to expand...

Could have been. But then again if that was the case ... Something had to have made it lose. I will sit here and tell you I'm definitely no expert on these matters, but all I know is I've had A) a reticle that would move when the bell was tapped 2) a 45 degree cant on my vertical adjustments 3) turrets that didn't move the center of the reticle .36" at 100 yards ... More like 1.2" 4) a scope that WOULD NOT HOLD ZERO!!!
 
Aimsmall55 said:
Could have been. But then again if that was the case ... Something had to have made it lose. I will sit here and tell you I'm definitely no expert on these matters, but all I know is I've had A) a reticle that would move when the bell was tapped 2) a 45 degree cant on my vertical adjustments 3) turrets that didn't move the center of the reticle .36" at 100 yards ... More like 1.2" 4) a scope that WOULD NOT HOLD ZERO!!!
Click to expand...

Hmm, kooky. I am a Vortex fan for sure but, it seems that some QC issues need to be resolved. I run a Razor now and love it. Of course it is quite a step up from the PST.
 
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