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F T/R Competition Stock question for FTR

S

savageshooter86

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 17, 2013
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The South
Anyone using the Savge Fclass model stock? I am thinking about building a new rifle based off of the Target Action and getting a factory Fclass stock and putting a rail on it and getting a Whidden V Block for it.

Just curious how stiff/sturdy that stock would be with a bull barrel at 30"?

Any personal experience/help would be great. Trying to do this as close to "right" this time. As I learned from my last rifle what I liked and didn't like
 
We have a few people using Savage F-class rifles in F-open at the club. I do not know firsthand how stiff or sturdy it is, but they like the rifle a lot.

However, that said, I would be worried about using a stock designed for F-Open on an F-TR rifle and then wanting to get a 30 inch bull barrel. You may have weight issues, as a bull barrel can be quite thick and thus heavy.

I would suggest you look at an F-TR stock such as the one sold by Precision Rifle and Tools. I absolutely love mine and it makes for a fine F-TR barrel with the proper barrel.
 
anyone have first hand experience? Or even using the BR model stock for FTR?

The PRT stock is 3x more expensive than the Savage factory stocks:(
 
savageshooter86 said:
Anyone using the Savge Fclass model stock? I am thinking about building a new rifle based off of the Target Action and getting a factory Fclass stock and putting a rail on it and getting a Whidden V Block for it.

Just curious how stiff/sturdy that stock would be with a bull barrel at 30"?

Any personal experience/help would be great. Trying to do this as close to "right" this time. As I learned from my last rifle what I liked and didn't like
Click to expand...

I responded to your message on Accurate shooter but I didn't see your barrel choice in that PM.

You are about to make a mistake. If you put a 30" heavy bull barrel on pretty much any F-TR rifle you will not be able to make weight. Run a Heavy Palma contour of you are going to be looking for stuff to throw overboard.
 
well that is why I haven't ordered yet. Was looking at a 30" CBI bull prefit and was also looking at Bartlein #9 30". Or see a Kreiger Heavy Palma 12 twist. The others are 10 twist barrrels
 
I have a 30" MTU contour .308 barrel in a McMillan A5 stock, Defiance action, NF 12-42x56 scope, Badger M5 DBM w AICS mag, and an LRA bipod that weighs in at 1.45 lb. MTU is a fairly heavy contour and the finished barrel weighed in at 8.35 lb. Overall, the rifle weighs in at 17.99 lb, so it is just under the limit of 18.18 lb with enough safe margin. I've weighed an A5 stock before; my recollection is it came in about 4.5 lb, but I'm not absolutely certain on that.

In any event, if you know the weight of the various components of your setup, any of the top barrelmakers can give you a pretty close estimate of what the finished barrel will weigh. Knowing those weights to some degree of accuracy will allow you to make a more informed decision on what barrel contour you can use without going over the limit.

On the above mentioned rifle, I knew it would be close to the max weight, but the detachable mag gave me some breathing room as I can easily single load without it, if necessary. The AICS mag itself weighs somewhere in the neighborhood of 0.4 lb. The other item that can make a difference between making weight or being over is the bipod. Depending on the type, these can range from just over 1 lb, to over 3 lb. Knowing what your chosen components weigh will be a big help in making your stock and barrel contour selections.
 
gstaylorg explained it very nicely. When I was building my current F-TR rifle I did a little spreadsheet in which I kept all the published or known weights for each component. I then used the Lilja barrel weight calculator to come up with my length and contour for the barrel. I aimed to be a half pound under maximum for the whole thing to allow for variations in specs. As it turned out I was about 250 grams under weight in Raton. Just remember that the gravity is not constant and scales will vary at different venues; plan accordingly.
 
My primary rifle is:

Defiance target action with Aluminum scope rail and bolt shroud
32" Krieger HP
PR&T stock
KMW adjustable cheek (very light)
NF NXS
NF ulttra light rings
Sinclair bipopd

I weighed in at Raton at 0.10 lbs under weight

My backup rifle:

Remington action
Badger Lug
30" Krieger HP
McM A5
Badger A4 bottom metal
Kydex cheek
Badger steel rail and rings
NF 8-32 BR
Sinclair pod

weighed in at 0.4 under
 
My daughters rifle came in 1.5 pounds under weight at Raton with a 28 inch bull CBI, Savage PTA, and HS stock, and Bipod in FT/R why couldn't you make weight with a 30 inch. She had a 10-50x60 Sightron on rifle.
 
I had Jim Briggs weigh the action and he said it was 3#, the Savage Fclass stock he had weighed 4#, the 30" bull barrel he had in stock weighed 6.25#, the Duplin bipod should weigh 1# 1 oz, the base would weigh 2-3 oz, the scope with rings and anti-cant/sun shade weighs 2# 10 oz. So right there I would have been at 17. 125". I would have needed to add a rail on the forend and if needed the adjustable butt plate and cheek piece would have but me very likely over the weight. And this was assuming his scale matched with the scales at the matches.
 
Denys thanks. I put my friends gun in my stock and etc... and it fit real nice and already had a rail for the bipod and his shot extremely well(not expecting mine to do the same). His shot under 1/2" group at 100 every time. For 4000 rounds. Now it only shoots 3/4-1 MOA at 100.
 
pappy83 said:
My daughters rifle came in 1.5 pounds under weight at Raton with a 28 inch bull CBI, Savage PTA, and HS stock, and Bipod in FT/R why couldn't you make weight with a 30 inch. She had a 10-50x60 Sightron on rifle.
Click to expand...

Sightron saves you a couple of oz over Nightforce and 28 inches vs 30 shaves some more, but the HS stock probably saves you a pound or two.

I have a 31" long Krieger Heavy Palma blank in my garage now. It weighs 6.03 on my shipping scale. Look at the weight on the FINISHED MTU in the post above at over 8 lbs. Neither of my rifles could stand that much weight.

A Heavy Palma is going to come in at over two lbs lighter. To make weight with my 600 yard gun that started as a Savage F class , it's now a 223 with a 28" bull, I had to take close to a pound off of the standard Savage F class stock. Even after I contoured the stock I had to go into the butt with a forstner bit and get another oz out of it.

There are many ways to get to 18 lbs as long as you get there w/o going over you are fine, but running a 30 inch barrel heavier than a Heavy Palma will mean you have to shave more than a few oz somewhere else. I believe Dale Carpenter runs medium Palmas to make weight because he likes his big heavy Barnard action.
 
I think your savage 12 will shoot pretty well for you. I'm a Remy guy, but I think the Savage shoots better out of the box. A 30" bull bbl will be HEAVY. I'd be surprised if it could make weight without heavy fluting (then you might as well get a smaller contour). A friend of mine, who shoots far better than me, has told me repeatedly that a 28" bbl is ideal for Varget and similar burn rate powders. If you must have the bull, you might consider going to a 28". It won't be a huge difference, but it will save you some weight.

I'm no expert on this matter, so this may be worth exactly what you paid for it, but.... If I were going through the trouble and expense of rebarreling a rifle, I would not go with a prefit. I know several guys that use Savage actions for their TR rifles, but not a one them uses the barrel nut. Several of these guys are world class competitors (I am not. I'm just that guy out there having fun and NOT cussing up a storm.) I know Criterion makes a quality bbl, but you could easily step up to a Krieger, Bartlein, Lilja (current F-TR world champ shoots Lilja), or any other premium maker for very little. I seriously doubt you will regret spending a little extra $$ having a bbl fitted and your action trued. I'm just telling you this because I spent SOOO much $$ doing things in a manner that was not the best way of doing them, until I met a very talented gunsmith who told me what to do to build a great rifle.

FWIW, I am building a REMY W/Lilja NBRSA heavy varmint contour 3-groove 1:10" (finishing @ 28"), MCM A5 adj. (great stock, but not for F-class. expensive mistake), Sightron SIII 8-32x56 LRMOA, Farrel rings, and NF base. I'm hoping to finish out at around 17.5lbs
 
I am going to shoot this for the next season or two and learn it and the FTR game then decide what I need. Maybe a custom barrel and chamber or a new stock or Berger bullets.....who knows. I just had to remind myself I started this wanting to have fun and travel some to smaller matches and meet some good people. Now reading forums and stuff they make you think you have to spend $4000 to accomplish this. I don't think so. Not for me. I am not getting paid to shoot and is not a career for me, just a hobby

Will post an update when everything shows up and get to the range to test it out

Thanks for the help
 
Definitely not necessary to spend $4000.00 on a rifle in order to shoot well in F-T/R, particularly at the local level. Ive seen a number of shooters post great scores shooting an out-of-the-box Savage 12 FTR rifle with a moderately priced scope on top of it. As you pointed out, the main thing is to have fun and enjoy yourself, that's what keeps you coming back, even after a bad day. Best of luck with it!
 
The place where you do not want to skimp is the selection of the bullet.
 
They likely won't tell you. They will tell you what bullet they tested it with.

Once fired Lapua brass measures .343 neck diameter in my factory F/TR barrel. The chamber throat is fairly short for 185 gr bullets. You probably won't be able to get enough Varget in the case to get good velocity with 185's. You could have the chamber throated longer. You can get enough PP2000MR in a case to get good velocity and still have a .020 or so jump. I shot them through the factory barrel with 2000MR and they shot pretty nicely at 600. I never tried them at 1000. I have gone to a Kreiger barrel with a tighter chamber with a longer throat now.

I shoot with a guy that is shooting Berger 155.5 bullets through the factory F/TR barrel. He shot a high master score yesterday at 600 yds, and beat me and my Kreiger w/ 185's by 6 points. The guy driving the machine makes a difference as well. The stock Savage F/TR will shoot.
 
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thanks. I may get it throated. Will check the 175 SMK and 185s and take it to the smith to see what he thinks. Might take it out to .168 freebore if I do have it done
 
Wow this FTR has a short throat!!

Old chamber the 178 BTHP touched lands at 2.235"(ogive). New chamber touches lands at 2.181".

on my new bullet, the 175 SMK, touches lands at 2.185" ogive and 2.795 coal. Bullet is just barely above donut area.

Might have to get it throated out
 
I had a feeling this was coming but thought it would be better to stay off of my keyboard and let you post what you found, but you're not the first person to comment that a stock FTR has a short throat. It does make them just about perfect for factory loaded mag length ammo.

Dave Kiff sells a hand throating reamer that works really well, (I have one and I know two others who have them) or you can find a smith that will punch it out for you.

I didn't have my reamer last yr and the only one my smith had wasn't much longer than that. I shot very well last yr with a short throat just be aware that a lot of the loads you see on the web will be too hot for your rifle with the bullet pushed way back. If you are shooting Varget keep it below 44.5 (I blew primers with that load on a particularly hot day last yr) or make sure you don't let your ammo get hot.
 
Wander why they throated it so short? I will just have smith throat it out longer for me to fit the 175 SMK a little better. It shoots well but like you said will have to keep my charges somewhat on the mild side to avoid pressure

Guess I will be pulling bullets most likely. Hodgdon listed max of 45 gr and on the web most are running around 43 gr or mid to high 44s. Going to do my OCW test this afternoon. Have 42.5 up to 45.2 in 0.3 increments seated +5 from touch.

This is how it shot yesterday after 10 rounds of shoot 1 clean, repeat.


It does make them just about perfect for factory loaded mag length ammo
Click to expand...
wander why Savage throats them this way? seeing they are single shot competition built rifles where we need the velocity to get to 1000 yards. "FTR"
 
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I can't help but wonder if you know the difference between "wonder" and "wander" or if you just like to wander around from subject to subject.

In answer to your question, it might be worthwhile to call Savage and ask them directly why they sell the FTR model with a short throat and see what they say. You could then report the answer here and not leave us wondering.
 
if you just like to wander around from subject to subject
Click to expand...
Wander around with the issues I am having at the moment and can't find specific info on forums about what I am wondering

I will not hold my breath on Savage answering anything. Same people that said to get a firing pin I had to be an FFL
 
Those are for bag riding, no real value in TR.

I should post up a picture of my mid range gun. It started as a Savage F class in 6.5-284. I got it used, I sold the 6.5 barrel that had a couple of hundred rounds on it. I took a rasp to the stock and cut the front down like a TR stock. Now I have a flat bottomed bag rider butt with a TR like forend and a honkin' thick 28" 223 barrel and still make weight. (barely)
 
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