Dissapointed at .22 WMR long distance performance

[ego235]

I've been wanting to try this test for some time now. Waited a few weeks for a relatively calm day with winds less than 5 mph to take my .22 WMR to the 330 yard berm of my local range for long distance shooting with two types of ammo. Up to this point I had not done anything longer than 200 yards with the magnum (~3" five shot groups). For comparison I brought along my .22LR.

Equipment
Anschutz 1720d (.22 WMR)
30 grain Hornady V-Max
33 grain Remington Premier Accutip

Remington 597 with Volquartsen Tension Barrel (.22LR)
40 grain CCI AR-Tactical

The Anschutz is an extremely fine shooting rifle with a glass crisp trigger and routinely shoots a single ragged hole at 50 yards. The two types of ammo are for their fast muzzle velocity. Hornady is at 2200 fps, Remington is rated for 2000 fps but with significantly higher BC (0.095 vs 0.137).

I setup a 12" steel plate on the berm 330 yards away. After shooting approximately 20 rounds from each ammo then switching to the .22LR I started realizing a sad fact. The .22LR was significantly more accurate at this distance!

I was shocked especially by how the Remington 33gr bullets with their similar BC to .22LR but nearly 800fps advantage was hitting fewer plates. Taking an average of 10 rounds of each, I estimate hitting the plate about 6 or 7 times with .22 LR but only 3 or 4 with the .22 WMR with either ammo. By the end of the day I had shot a full box of both types of magnum rounds and could not consistently hit the plate.

Three questions to the community:

1. Why such terrible performance from the Magnum? Compared to .22LR I would have expected at least comparable accuracy if not significantly better! The magnum turned into a 6+ moa gun at that distance, WTF?!?

2. Has anyone else had similar results shooting these calibers at 300 yards or longer? Maybe I should have tried some 40 grain types instead of these lighter polymer tipped bullets.

3. Finally has anyone tried shooting .17 HMR against either .22 WMR or .22LR at these distances?

 

[The_FNG]

No long distance stuff, but i've found my .22lr has always been more accurate than the wmr.

 

[Merlin O]

Try CCI Maxi-Mag and be happy(er).

 

[bunsen27]

Physics is against you. Two words: transonic barrier.

 

[Drifter™]

There is a reason that 22lr target ammo's MV is below the speed of sound.

 

[ego235]

I would agree with you guys if I were using subsonic .22LR ammo. Except CCI AR-Tactical is supersonic as well. Somewhere along the lines of 1200fps if I'm not mistaken so it is also affected by the transonic barrier.

 

[steve123]

I tried the same thing with my 22 magnum/30vmax. At 200Y it rocked, 300Y it sucked.

Seemed like there was a 50 grain load out there. Maybe it'd do better at 300Y???

 

[lawman29]

Ditto on Bunsen & Drifter. You'll see discussion on .22lr accuracy regarding match ammo and velocity. You want to avoid crossing the sound barrier twice (accelerating up through it and then later on de-accelerating down through it - turbulence - poor accuracy). The .22lr never crosses it, hence it's more accurate than the 22mag which has crossed it and then is going back down through it at the longer ranges. You will see this same discussion with long range shooters regarding keeping a bullet above the threshold as they reach out to far distances...staying super-sonic...

 

[ego235]

Thanks for the detailed explanation about the transonic barrier Lawman, but I was using supersonic .22LR ammo. It is rated 1200 fps and I heard the supersonic crack sound after each shot. I would have thought since the .22lr would slow down and go subsonic much sooner, the impact would be even greater at 330 yards. What I mean is the .22 WMR vmax rounds go subsonic around 180 yards so at 200y my groups are still decent. If the .22LR went subsonic under 100 yards, any wobble it experiences will be magnified over the next 200+ yards it still has to fly to the 330 yard plate.

For a round that holds up so well at 100-200 yards it is amazingly shitty at 300 yards...accuracy literally falls off a cliff. The supersonic .22LR similarly degrades at anything past 100 yards, but the pattern seems to open up much more consistently over extended distances.

Any explanation for this? The numbers seem to be confusing on this matter.

 

[Drifter™]

Just glanced at ballistics for 22wmr Rem 33gr Accutip. MV is 2000 fps from my barrel, which means that it crosses the sound barrier just past 200 yards.

As for your 22lr ammo, have you run it through a chrono to verify speed?

Also, some bullets handle the transonic barrier better than others.

 

[ego235]

I agree bullet shape and type may play a role but these are almost identical caliber and the Accutips are listed as 0.137 BC while the CCI AR-Tacticals are listed at 0.138 BC. The other thing I'm thinking of perhaps barrel twist rate being too slow and at some point downrange it starts keyholing and tumbling? Although unlikely especially since these bullets are lighter than the stand 40 grain variety, it would help explain the wild loss in accuracy.

The .22LR is definitely supersonic, it makes the distintive crack in the air sound followed by a trailing echo on each shot unlike the many boxes of subsonic wolf I've shot.

By the way, anybody do any .17 HMR shooting at 300 yards? What kinds of groups are you getting since it is an even lighter bullet and drops below speed of sound around 275 yards. I wonder if it experiences a similar accuracy loss as it is a very accurate round while supersonic.

 

[bobtodrick]

Just a thought...was there any wind.
Possibly the .30/.33 grain WMR are being blown about more by the wind (even if only a breeze) once they go subsonic, compared to the 40gr LR.
As someone else mentioned, it would be worth trying a .40 or .50 gr.
I've only take mine (the Accutips) out to 150m, but as you've found they are 1moa at 100, and just a little more at 150m.
I wouldn't be expecting such a big variance beyond 200m, but I'll give it a try this weekend if I get a chance.

 

[ego235]

Yeah me neither bobtodrick, definitely let me know of your results at the longer ranges. I got about 1.5 moa at 200 yards which is very much within the expected range of accuracy.

The conditions were great, almost no winds, tiny gusts no more than 5mph. I chose to shoot on this day just to take the wind variable out. Also I alternated rifles several times as to average out the impact of what little wind there was.

 

[1911fan]

Thanks for the detailed explanation about the transonic barrier Lawman, but I was using supersonic .22LR ammo. It is rated 1200 fps and I heard the supersonic crack sound after each shot.

Right. From reading your posts I'm not sure you've grasped that any round that starts out supersonic (above the speed of sound) will cross the sound barrier again as it decreases. FWIW, I'm going to point out that if MV is supersonic then any turbulence going up through the barrier is negligible as it happens in the barrel.
Here's my SWAG: Since .22 mag starts out at a faster MV, it goes subsonic further away from the stabilizing influence of the barrel. This magnifies the effect of any already existing factors affecting accuracy, such as shooter error, wind, bullet concentricity, yaw, manufacturing tolerances, grasshopper farts, and so on. Since it's already off the intended line to the target by some degree, sonic barrier buffeting makes this random degree worse.
The .22, though, is barely subsonic and crosses the barrier before all the above factors have had as much of a chance to work on it. Because it's less far off the intended line to the target, it follows through better.

But what do I know? I'm just guessing. Now I'm going to have to figure out a way to prove this.... hmmmm.

I've found .17HMR to be minute of sage rat out to 250-ish but never tried testing for accuracy. I shoot it out of a suppressed Ruger 77 and it's killed thousands of rats, some well over 200 yards. 300? Dunno.



1911fan

 

[Drifter™]

Maybe since the 22lr starts out at a speed below the transonic region, it isn't as disrupted by the transonic barrier.

The transonic region is thought by some to be ~110% of the speed of sound, and it's where many bullets supposedly start losing their stability. Your 1200-fps MV would be between the two speeds.


ETA- Link to previous discussion regarding transonic region:

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...8-rough-number-fps-bullet-goes-transonic.html

 

[damoncali]

My guess is that the bullet was not designed with 300 yard shots in mind, and has trouble in the transonic region, which I'm guessing it spends a good amount of time in at that range. But that's just a guess.

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

there's the transonic thing & wind that plays a factor, but so does bullet weight and design.

you used polymer tipped, lightwieghts, perhaps your rifle shoots heavier 40 or 45 grainers, HP,FMJ, or SP better, so right from the start you may be tilting the odds.

the problem is, it's comparing apples and oranges from the start (.22lr vs .22mag) no matter what ammo you use or what the rifle likes.

you almost have to (depending on environmentals):

find out where your .22lr ammo goes subsonic, shoot a paper target just before that distance

find out where your .22mag ammo goes subsonic, shoot a paper target just before that distance

this'll give you some sort of scale, equal ground, or "handicap" to take out transonic stuff, and get a truer measure of "accuracy" between the apple and the orange. compare both groups and see which is the better of the two, using their relative b4 transonic distance.

from there, it's a matter of what bullet design handles destabilization / loss of speed better. the longer round nose (.22lr) will usually out perform a shorter pointy one (.22mwr vmax) in this instance, which may be a contributing factor of why the 22lr is better than your .22mag in your test at 300+ yards.

part of that bullet design that is also apples and oranges is a heeled more or less flat based bullet of the .22lr vs a boattail of the v maxes, what happens to each as FPS diminishes, and how the BC changes because of it.

don't forget BC's change as velocity does, when comparing BC's at longer ranges you need the FPS (even the projected calculated FPS will do with a ballistic calculator) you are getting down there too. the less gucci design of a long RN may "suck" trough out it's whole flight, but the good thing is it sucks consistently enough to plan on, predict, and be able to hit more stuff due to that consistent "sucking" vs. shorter pointy gucci bullets that don't handle change in FPS, spin, etc very well. they tend to wobble, tumble and veer off much more wildly, or unpredictably whether it's rimfire or centerfire depending on it's speed deminishing.

add that with transonic turbulence, and what appears to be a lumbering ugly duckling .22lr RN bullet turns into quite a swan given the right conditions vs. other bullet designs.

 

[ego235]

I will try some subsonic .22LR ammo next time to see if the accuracy is better.

I'd definitely like to see how the transonic barrier affects other similar calibers. This is why I am very curious if any members have tried .17 HMR at 300+ yards. Although it is a more accurate round than .22 mag, it should be impacted in similar ways as it goes subsonic around 270 yards.

 

[softcock]

Sub Vel. .22 has always been the king Overall . Accuracy and in wind-hold . (my opinion)
Windhold & if you run the numbers . 'weird physics trivia' . ( cant remember exactly ) been long time. but it take the same bullet if gong over sound barrier about 800 or More Vel. faster in speed to exceed the Sub. Vel. in winddhold .
.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

My tube fed bolt action marlin 22 magnum dis very accurate even well beyond 300 yards. I'm running a Bushnell elite tactical 10x and CCI Maxi Mag. I would say try different ammo.

 

[ego235]

Wow Softcock you're absolutely right! I plugged the values into my ballistics calculator and realistically at 300 yards the best IS just using subsonic .22LR. The wind drift is lower than .22 WMR or .17 HMR that is definitely not what I expected. Although you do have to account for the 40 moa of elevation drop.

Man now I feel like I have no need for this rifle

I'd still like to try some heavier ammo before I completely give up on it. The interesting thing is that CCI Maxi Mags actually have lower BC even with the heavier 40gr weight than the 33gr Remington Accutips. Still worth trying out though. If anyone knows of any places selling .22 wmr ammo online let me know. All the usual venues look tapped out.

 

[softcock]

Wow Softcock you're absolutely right! I plugged the values into my ballistics calculator and realistically at 300 yards the best IS just using subsonic .22LR. The wind drift is lower than .22 WMR or .17 HMR that is definitely not what I expected. Although you do have to account for the 40 moa of elevation drop.

Man now I feel like I have no need for this rifle

I'd still like to try some heavier ammo before I completely give up on it. The interesting thing is that CCI Maxi Mags actually have lower BC even with the heavier 40gr weight than the 33gr Remington Accutips. Still worth trying out though. If anyone knows of any places selling .22 wmr ammo online let me know. All the usual venues look tapped out.

.
Ya that's a weird fact that was thrown out there years back .
Amazing efficiency of .22 subs . (i think) also you get @ least 60 ft/lbs energy impact at 100-yard. also with 40 grn. Subs. & .22 Subs are real efficient on energy carried down range .

I am firm believer that .22 sub match is the King . Wind hold is OUTSTANDING with match accuracy when you find the ammo your .22 rifle barrel loves .
totally quit High Vel. .22 & .17HMR several years back . If I cant get it done with Sub. .22 then I just grab the .223 .
When out in the field shooting Sage Rats in the Alfalfa fields in E. Oregon . My .22 suppressed rifle & Subs. would blow away my 17 HMR Anz. long barrel, soon as any little wind came out .
.
.

 

[Drifter™]

If anyone knows of any places selling .22 wmr ammo online let me know. All the usual venues look tapped out.

Keep an eye on this link:

GunBot 22wmr rimfire ammo

It tracks product availability on quite a few websites.

 

[RHunter]

I think it is simply because you are using such a light bullet, try a 40 grain WMR and I bet you see a big difference in the accuracy.

 

[RTH1800]

Sometimes it is best to just use any ctg as it was intended and designed to be used. The .22 WMR was a 125 yard hunting round. It excels in this role.
But.. I am a guy who sees no need to shoot a 22 LR beyond 200 yards either.