League Of Denial - NFL & Head Trauma - Should Your Son Play?

[Mike_Honcho]

Link: League of Denial: The NFL’s Concussion Crisis | FRONTLINE | PBS

Nutshell - they have biopsied 46 NFL player brains - 45 had CTE (Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy). Additionally they have biopsied college player's and even high school player's brains and have found CTE.

At this point the data is strong on the presence of CTE but light on causation as well as how much is too much damage.

That said - anyone know a guy or two that seemed to have it all going on and then out of the blue started having problems? Anger / depression / addiction / memory? Rapid decline physically and mentally?

Think about this for a minute - circa the mid 1970s football helmets shifted from a rigid exterior plastic with a fiber (cloth) web suspension systems to that of expanded polystyrene. Soon after that came the gel pads (Riddle) and then Bike air (or double chamber air) and polystyrene. Full face guards (cages); as well as substantially improved shoulder pads. Add to that polystyrene neck pads (rolls, toilet seats, and cowboy collars). Additionally by the early '80s (while uncommon) with ever increasing frequency on a national level it was being reported that kids in high school were using performance enhancing drugs (steroids), college and pros at this time? Hmmphhh. From the very beginning players were taught to lift the face, shrug the shoulders, and hit with their face - making the forehead the focal point of all force.

Starting with the earliest playing days, and continuing on until they stopped playing, most young men incurred hits in which would produce perceivable audible or visual effects, or loose some level of physical control of their body - sub-concussed trauma. Some were in fact knocked out on the field. Most never admitted it.


*IF* it is shown that CTE is in fact highly correlated to repeated head trauma and the threshold incidence of trauma is low to moderate - it is conceivable that we as a nation are at the start of a long line of such cases.


I heard Rush Limbaugh say over the summer that he feared that football may soon be a dying game simply because mothers wouldn't let their sons play.

 

[EventHorizon]

I look at how these guys run into each other head first and wonder what the hell took them so long to start this debate...

My kids won't play. They're already marked to be rugby players.... much safer

 

[EddieNFL]

This school seems to have the answer:

New York school bans balls, tag during recess | Fox News

 

[Flying Goose]

I love watching football but my son will not be playing, unless he wants to follow my route and be a soccer player and kicker. Even soccer is getting sky-lined by concussions and the like.

Let the kicker jokes begin...

 

[E. Bryant]

I read Malcolm Gladwell's article on the topic (Football, dogfighting, and brain damage : The New Yorker) before my son was even born, and decided at that point he was highly unlikely to ever play the sport. That being said, I'm not so sure that involvement at the high-school level is any more dangerous than the stuff I did on skateboards and bikes in my youth.

 

[BALLISTIC]

I look at how these guys run into each other head first and wonder what the hell took them so long to start this debate...

My kids won't play. They're already marked to be rugby players.... much safer

Agreed. With all the modern technology of pads/helmets, individuals are using their bodies as projectiles, instead of using their hands to tackle. Years ago I read a report stating that even though we have huge gains in safety technology to protect players on the field, injuries are up compared to when leather 'helmets' were worn. Rugby is a more entertaining sport than 'football' anyways, not that I watch either.

 

[Krav69]

In high school, I had a close friend who was an honor student and headed to a good college. He was one of those guys who was good at everything he did, including being on the varsity football squad as a freshman wide receiver.

He took a shot, got blown up after catching a pass, and was laid out cold, his senior year. The coaches came over and asked him if he knew where he was. He didn't know. After that hit, he continued with the game, and later, jokingly his teammates called him "Memory Loss".

After high school, we parted ways as we took separate paths in life, but I kept hearing about how his life had devolved. I simply refused to believe it. Straight A's, good college offers for football and scholarships, he had everything going for him. Everything going for him...

Years later I finally returned to my old hometown, and in a supermarket I bumped into his father. I asked after my old friend, and his father got a sudden look of shock and the blood ran from his face. He told me of heavy drug and alcohol abuse after getting out of high school, how his life fell apart, and then he stated...

"He committed suicide in 2000".

My first response was "that f'n hit he took!"

My friend's father nodded, shocked that I would even remember this hit that took place in 1992, despite the fact that it was local legend long before, widely known.

He then went on to elaborate that there was a day before the concussion, and a wholly different life the day after the hit. He came out of that concussion a totally changed person, and sadly not for the better.

Sorry for the long post, but I've always wondered about this concussion and it's after effects, and it has troubled me greatly over the last decade.

 

[Mike_Honcho]

@ E Bryant - some of what was discussed in the documentary was that youth and adolescent brains weigh less and therefore it takes much less energy (smaller collision) to put them in motion (rattle around in the skull).


I have a couple of friends - one in particular - he was undersized for an LB even in HS but went on to play D2 by shear force of will. He (like many of us) played with smelling salts on him, breaking them open on the way back to the huddle when he needed them. When he got to D2, he got the talk from the trainer - you need to figure out how to get a lot bigger, quickly. Two seasons later he destroyed his shoulder, but didn't tell anyone until mid season when it had to be cut. I think this was right after the game where he played against Ickey Woods (if you remember him). Flash forward 20 yrs, married 3 kids, sucessful business guy (very smart) - imploded within a matter of @ 18 months. Big physical and mental changes - anger (we're all agro type As but this was just venomous - and really odd). Any way I saw this and it got me to thinking. If it is real and the incedence threshold is moderate - it may effect many.

 

[eli polite]

Its like any thing else. They know what they are getting into just like boxers and any other high risk job.

 

[--BLACKOUT--]

That's it, I'm wrapping my boys up in bubble wrap. When I was growing up I hit my head riding bikes, wrestling, tubing in the snow, falling off bunk beds, among many other things and then I played football from middle school thru high school. What was my mother thinking? My boys are never leaving the house....

Yea, right.

 

[Rhyno]

Learn how to tackle right. Now one teaches any one how o take right.

If I were a coach of penalize players for big hits, keep your damn head up, wrap up, and tackle him.

But it doesn't stop there no one has done anything to stop ball carriers from leading with their helmet.

It's all crap.

 

[oughtsix]

As far as the NFL is concerned, F those guys. They may not have known what they were signing up for, but they got paid the big bucks to play a game instead of producing anything valuable. The fact that they can't find the bathroom in their own house is no concern of mine. MY concern is kids in high school and college who look to these guys as role models and, in trying to make the big hits and plays, make even poorer decisions on the field than a adolescent should or would in the absence of the pressure to perform like some superhuman freak. I knew several guys that took too many hits to the head in HS and college; some fared better than others, from little visible cognitive effect to becoming just short of a high-functioning vegetable. My dad played college ball back in the 70s, and somehow he escaped with only skeletal maladies. When I came along, he encouraged other extra-curriculars...so I got my Eagle rank in scouts and shot air rifle competitively all over the US. I don't want kids at this point, but if that changes, I don't see my pushing football on them in any way.

 

[TNT]

My kids won't play football if I have anything to say about it. My dad, thankfully, discouraged it for me. Sure I've taken plenty of head knocks snowboarding, even a couple at the racetrack. But those are random, infrequent, and much less likely to cause permanent damage as opposed to repeated, systematic impacts to the same area. Think about this. I crash my bike and smack my head into the turf or an object. That helmet that uses polystyrene primarily to protect it is now done. One use and it's finished, because the liner has been compressed as a sacrificial piece to lengthen the impulse duration. What about a football helmet, using polystyrene, to do the same job. It takes hit after hit after hit, usually in the same spots. Protective gear isn't all that protective when it's been abused. Unless they are willing to don new helmets after almost every play, I have a hard time figuring out how we've convinced ourselves that the safety gear really helps all that much.

 

[ranger1183]

I played Football, Lacrosse, Ice Hockey and Wrestled for a couple of years. If it was my Son or Daughter, I'd rather have them play soccer, baseball/softball, track & field/cross-country, swimming/diving. Me and all my brothers have taken hellacious hits that have caused episodes of memory loss. What payback we're in for in our later years is not something any of us are looking forward to. And yet, I'm the kind of guy that loves watching full contact sports on TV. Go figure.

 

[Mike]

Take away the pads and helmets and let them play. Then teach them rugby. It's a better sport anyway.

 

[E. Bryant]

I have a hard time figuring out how we've convinced ourselves that the safety gear really helps all that much.

My theory is that we allow ourselves to be fooled into believing in the benefits of safety equipment (or new rules, or medical treatment procedures, or whatever) so that we can continue to enjoy the savagery of watching young men blast their brains into mush for our entertainment.

 

[Mike_Honcho]

My theory is that we allow ourselves to be fooled into believing in the benefits of safety equipment (or new rules, or medical treatment procedures, or whatever) so that we can continue to enjoy the savagery of watching young men blast their brains into mush for our entertainment.

100%


However as one that has always enjoyed contact sports for the contact itself - there is nothing more satisfying than feeling of them 'yielding' shall we say.

I don't have sons so it isn't a question for me. Now days I do wear headgear when I spar / ride a bike / go fast. I've had a lot fun. No regrets.

The jury is still out this one (sort of); and statistically some are going to do better than others. Hard to experience the world in bubble wrap....

 

[E. Bryant]

One aspect of my day job is safety engineering. The underlying concept in this field is that there is no such thing as elimination of risk; only the reduction of risk to acceptable levels. Who decides what is "acceptable"? Well, it can be done via accounting (cost-benefit analysis), or the softer method of attempting to ascertain what society will accept.

The NFL, so far, is making the economics work - the costs associated with the most-recent legal settlement are far outweighed by the profit associated with managing the league. I suspect it will be ever more difficult to make the same argument hold true as we move down towards amateur-level tiers.

 

[EventHorizon]

One aspect of my day job is safety engineering. The underlying concept in this field is that there is no such thing as elimination of risk; only the reduction of risk to acceptable levels. Who decides what is "acceptable"? Well, it can be done via accounting (cost-benefit analysis), or the softer method of attempting to ascertain what society will accept.

The NFL, so far, is making the economics work - the costs associated with the most-recent legal settlement are far outweighed by the profit associated with managing the league. I suspect it will be ever more difficult to make the same argument hold true as we move down towards amateur-level tiers.

An excellent point and one worth makig within the NCAA refusing to pay college players argument.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I often wonder how much damage I've cause my dick head by crashing it repeatedly into womens cervix.

 

[pawprint2]

The truth about concussions and high school sports is revealing. Football only accounts for less than half of these injuries, while soccer (male and female) is in second place, followed by the other sports. It is possible that the NFL's chicken shit policy regarding steroids and the like have caused a lot of the problems. Not only are the players stronger/more aggressive but their brains May be more subject to damage due to the drugs in their systems. Should boys be allowed to play football? How about girls and soccer? Girls have more than 60,000 concussions due to playing soccer last year alone, almost twice that of the boys. You can raise "girly men" and try to keep them safe from all hazards, to include not allowing them to climb trees, hike, camp, etc. While they may not receive a concussion their brains may be just as screwed up.......just saying.

 

[Sharpsman]

Rugby!

My azz!

The Beatles should have been hung from the nearest light post after stepping on US soil!!

 

[jeo556]

I also watched the program. Very compelling to say the least. My two boys won't play as far as I'm concerned. There just seems too obvious to me that the repeated impacts are not something that the human brain was made to deal with. As a side note, a co-worker of my wife has a daughter that played high school soccer and had a seemingly normal impact with another girl and ended up with a serious concussion. This is going on 9 months ago and she has yet to recover completely. Initially she was unable to leave her dark bedroom for over a week. The memory loss was at first, scary, and still disheartening now to think it still affects her to this day.

I understand the mentality that we shouldn't shelter our children to much but the repetition of the impacts associated with football seems unsafe to me. But life's a gamble and the world needs ditch diggers, and football players to. To each their own

 

[Greg Langelius *]

"Let's you and him fight...", a chapter heading from Games People Play, puts a lot of this in context. A lot of people derive pleasure from instigating and observing conflicts between others.

It becomes formalized in areas like sports, war, and Jihad, etc.

Somewhere in all of it, there is the aspect of third party gain. Without such gain, there might possibly be less conflict; buy with human nature being what it is, I seriously doubt that will ever happen.

Greg

 

[redhooker]

I will preface this post by saying I have no issue with anyone that feels they should keep their kids out of sports for safety's sake.

That said, I believe that this is yet another blow to the American way. We are fast becoming a society that is completely unwilling to accept any risk/sacrifice to accomplish anything. The NFL is an easy target. Football has improved many many times more lives than it has harmed providing college education and structure for children that would have never had either otherwise. For many kids the only positive male role model they meet is on the field. My boys will play if they want to.

For every story about some "rising star" that went down in flames due possibly to a knock in the head, a 100 other kids slid down the same path and could have used a good slap upside the head but never got it.

 

[EventHorizon]

I will preface this post by saying I have no issue with anyone that feels they should keep their kids out of sports for safety's sake.

That said, I believe that this is yet another blow to the American way. We are fast becoming a society that is completely unwilling to accept any risk/sacrifice to accomplish anything. The NFL is an easy target. Football has improved many many times more lives than it has harmed providing college education and structure for children that would have never had either otherwise. For many kids the only positive male role model they meet is on the field. My boys will play if they want to.

For every story about some "rising star" that went down in flames due possibly to a knock in the head, a 100 other kids slid down the same path and could have used a good slap upside the head but never got it.

I think you've missed the point of the controversy. I don't think anyone of reasonable intellect ever thought football was safe. What the matter is the degree of how unsafe it - can - be and the alleged efforts of the NFL, coaches and teams to prevent the full facts from being investigated and disclosed.

Life is unsafe. But what we should all try and achieve are decisions that are informed.

The argument that football helps more than it harms is flawed seeing as we don't yet know how many are truly harmed (not just NFL players) by the manner in which this sport is played.

As someone who played a lot of rugby, got hurt a fair bit and suffers from dodgy tendons and a near useless thumb I would say I'm not risk adverse. However there's no way my boys will play football so long as the game is played with the head as a blunt instrument. That's just plain dumb.

 

[EddieNFL]

How 'bout boxing?

 

[WRH51]

Lots of good points here. I played from the sixth grade on through college. 11 years total. Linebacker in high school and college. Mostly special teams in college. I was a "wedge buster". Those who have played know what that is. Never will forget what the coach said one day. "I don't give care if you make the tackle or not... just bust that f'in wedge!" Is football "good" for the human body? Hell no. "Good" for the brain? How could it be? That being said the "potential" for ANY injury is there in almost all sports. I saw two eighth grade kids collide on a basketball court last year. The one kid lost some teeth the other was knocked out for a second and had to have stitches. If you play sports long enough, you will get injured/hurt eventually. What was it a few weeks ago, Tiger Woods had hurt his back or something. Football does probably have a greater potential of injury. No argument there. Point is, if you are playing sports, you are rolling the dice.
That being said, I wonder myself about the correlation of head injury and psychological issues. I have noticed that some of the issues outlined above are more prevalent in today's society as a whole, not just those that have played contact sports. We glorify violence in video games, movie and TV as well as sports. Are our brains being affected by the constant onslaught of this visual and audible stimulation? We hear about people "losing it". They go into deep depression, become angry/ violent, go on a shooting rampage, you name it. Did all these people play football? Nope. What tripped in their head? Now take a football player who has psychological issues? Did they play violent video games, watch violent movies etc? Nobody asks those questions. Had to be because of head trauma suffered during football, right?
People want to lay the blame at someone's or something's feet. Randomness and unpredictability scares people. The idea that things happen and we have no direct control over them, scares people. We tell ourselves football is dangerous so my kid is not going to play. We feel good that we have control over something and we sleep at night. Yet most of us rarely think twice about putting them in a 2 ton vehicle that travels 70 mph (or more) on a road with other vehicles weighing as much as 40 ton or more that also travel at 70 mph (or more). Some coming at us head and separate by little more that some paint on the asphalt.
This has turned into rant and I apologize. I just think we are too quick to lay the entire blame on certain things in our lives. We are not looking at the big picture. Because we don't WANT to.....

 

[EventHorizon]

Lots of good points here. I played from the sixth grade on through college. 11 years total. Linebacker in high school and college. Mostly special teams in college. I was a "wedge buster". Those who have played know what that is. Never will forget what the coach said one day. "I don't give care if you make the tackle or not... just bust that f'in wedge!" Is football "good" for the human body? Hell no. "Good" for the brain? How could it be? That being said the "potential" for ANY injury is there in almost all sports. I saw two eighth grade kids collide on a basketball court last year. The one kid lost some teeth the other was knocked out for a second and had to have stitches. If you play sports long enough, you will get injured/hurt eventually. What was it a few weeks ago, Tiger Woods had hurt his back or something. Football does probably have a greater potential of injury. No argument there. Point is, if you are playing sports, you are rolling the dice.
That being said, I wonder myself about the correlation of head injury and psychological issues. I have noticed that some of the issues outlined above are more prevalent in today's society as a whole, not just those that have played contact sports. We glorify violence in video games, movie and TV as well as sports. Are our brains being affected by the constant onslaught of this visual and audible stimulation? We hear about people "losing it". They go into deep depression, become angry/ violent, go on a shooting rampage, you name it. Did all these people play football? Nope. What tripped in their head? Now take a football player who has psychological issues? Did they play violent video games, watch violent movies etc? Nobody asks those questions. Had to be because of head trauma suffered during football, right?
People want to lay the blame at someone's or something's feet. Randomness and unpredictability scares people. The idea that things happen and we have no direct control over them, scares people. We tell ourselves football is dangerous so my kid is not going to play. We feel good that we have control over something and we sleep at night. Yet most of us rarely think twice about putting them in a 2 ton vehicle that travels 70 mph (or more) on a road with other vehicles weighing as much as 40 ton or more that also travel at 70 mph (or more). Some coming at us head and separate by little more that some paint on the asphalt.
This has turned into rant and I apologize. I just think we are too quick to lay the entire blame on certain things in our lives. We are not looking at the big picture. Because we don't WANT to.....

Great post. Thanks.

 

[redhooker]

I think you've missed the point of the controversy. I don't think anyone of reasonable intellect ever thought football was safe. What the matter is the degree of how unsafe it - can - be and the alleged efforts of the NFL, coaches and teams to prevent the full facts from being investigated and disclosed.

Life is unsafe. But what we should all try and achieve are decisions that are informed.

The argument that football helps more than it harms is flawed seeing as we don't yet know how many are truly harmed (not just NFL players) by the manner in which this sport is played.

As someone who played a lot of rugby, got hurt a fair bit and suffers from dodgy tendons and a near useless thumb I would say I'm not risk adverse. However there's no way my boys will play football so long as the game is played with the head as a blunt instrument. That's just plain dumb.

Nope, I didn't miss the point at all. I just have a different opinion on the matter. I never was under the impression that football was anything but a violent game when played at the professional level. I have friends that played in the 80's, 90's, and 00's in the NFL. None of them regret it, and all of them were well aware of what the were doing to their bodies, even back in the 80s. I currently work in a profession that has no OSHA protection and a cancer rate almost double that of the general population. Do I have the right to blame everyone but myself should that risk metastasize into a reality? Outside of a disability benefit the answer is no. The NFL may be in of itself just a game, but it's economic value to this country is bigger than any sport in existence. aside from the 10 billion it takes in itself, it has at least a 5 billion dollar impact on local businesses that support the games each year. I hope they continue to try to mitigate the injury risk to players, but nobody is going to pay $150-$300 to go watch a game of flag football.

 

[Mark williams]

Told my kid possible consequences of the game. He had been wanting to play since he was 7, and I didn't let him play tackle. Let him play flag football instead. This year I let him play and he's loving it. A person can get hurt in all sports and many other endevours as well. Bottom line is you can't stop living because of fear. I'm making sure he's taught the correct way and got the best equipment. I also expect him to play all at if that's what he chooses to do. Fear can make prisoners out of us all! I just hope he don't get hurt as well as other kids but I don't feel like I can tell him he can't play, just that I'd rather him not play!

 

[TNT]

Many good points here. I don't disagree with the sentiment that you can't live your life in a bubble - by no means should anyone let fear rule. But I think we sometimes forget or fail to do proper risk analysis in making our decisions. Ultimately, if the risk is worth it, go for it.

I participate in two activities that very easily can kill someone (motorcycle track days / skydiving), but the frequency of the associated risks is low, and the risks can be actively mitigated with planning, maintenance, and training. Football and other activities mentioned (i.e., boxing), have a relatively minor risk consequence from encounter to encounter (aside from the freak accident), but the frequency of the risks is high. You are hitting and getting hit in almost every encounter, and there's not a whole lot you can do to prevent or mitigate the impacts and associated risks of brain injury. I really want to understand how we have become so complacent in how we view safety equipment. Thinking that a helmet works the same way every time is concerning to say the least. Helmets and other protective gear are much less likely to be replaced in amateur and junior leagues where there isn't a lot of money to go around.

If someone gave me a choice: 40% risk of minor brain damage or 0.01% risk of death, I think I'd go with the latter.

All that being said, the things we do for fun are not ranked based on their risk. We each have passions and things that bring us joy. Hopefully we each have something that we can continue doing into old age, and that our other pursuits don't prevent us from getting there. To those who want to be human battering rams, more power to you. As in all things, just go in with full understanding of what can happen. And seriously consider that point I was trying to make about safety equipment.