Sidearms & Scatterguns Help troubleshoot my handgun grip/poi problem?

[Whiplash5198]

Ok folks I'm looking for some help in troubleshooting a small problem that's been buggin me. When shooting any semi handguns my groups generally impact at the 9 o' clock area (multiple ranges, say 4in off at 15yrds). This happens when shooting my duty G22, XD45, or any 1911. After being issued a 1911 for duty couple years ago, I was instructed on the thumbs forward (right thumb riding the safety) grip, and that's the grip I've stuck with. Since then I've been issued the G22. But after more frequent shooting of all those models mentioned, to included other folks guns, I can't seem to make center hits. I've looked at a handgun correction chart which mentions trigger finger depth, but have tried more, less, and in the middle to no avail. I believe it may have to do with grip pressure in the hand, to much or not enough, but can't settle on anything. I've made rear sight adjustment to the G22, but have no more left. Does anyone have anything I could try or adjust within my grip? I know to work on smooth press to the rear. I know it may be hard to recommend something without seeing the grip in person...but I'm desperate to try anything. Am I combat accurate? Yes. Do I want groups in the center? Yes. Any help or recommendations would be much appreciated!

 

[buks]

If it is a known and consistent deviation, then just off-set your aim.

Try...relaxing your (trigger pull) hand more, and (assuming a two-handed grip) hold the grip firmer with your support hand.
Support hand, grip firmness "should" be firmer then the hand doing the trigger pull.

Simple drill to calibrate a straight pull back on the trigger finger. Take a pencil (with a decent point)....and balance it...(pointing down 45 degrees or so)...the tip of the pencil on your trigger finger...the middle
of the pencil lays (on top) on the web of your hand (between the base of your thumb and trigger finger)....now as you look down the barrel (pencil, really)...pull the "trigger"....the pencil should slide straight!!
back, up the web of your hand. Any deviation will be noted. If your trigger finger is pushing the gun to the left...then while doing this drill.....the rear of the pencil may be moving to the right.
Easy drill, may help a bit, can be safely performed, almost anywhere.

Good luck.

 

[corey4]

what helped me was the wall drill. i ended up incorporating a dot after awhile.

after i did the wall drill a few times, i noticed my muzzle wasn't exactly perpendicular to my target. i was just a cunt hair to the left.

 

[Whiplash5198]

Thanks buks. I will give that a try this weekend if I get some free time. I do know I have more grip pressure in firing hand, than support hand. Don't think I've been told any different. I like the pencil drill idea. Cheap practice.

 

[Whiplash5198]

Corey4, could you explain the wall/dot drill? Think I've heard of it, not sure though.

 

[corey4]

pistol-training.com » Wall Drill

i forget the reason why i ended up putting a sticky note with dot on the wall, but i did.

if you google 'wall drill', you will find a bunch of links.

 

[Whiplash5198]

Thanks

 

[corey4]

buks, that's a great drill. it really pits it in perspective.

whip, you mentioned you grip too much with your grip hand hand. do you shoot archery? if so, then you know that if you grip too much with your bow hand, you end up canting the bow. if you do not shoot archery, find a buddy that does and he can explain it and show it to you, or at least me should be able to. archers don't grasp the grip. it puts to much variable pressure into the bow.

also, using a laser during dry fire practice puts things into perspective as well. from a distance, place the laser on the dot that you drew on the sticky note. you will see at your imaginary POI how much the muzzle actually moves.

another thing that has helped me is bar/dot sights. i noticed right away how much the front sight moves to the left during trigger squeeze.

 

[Whiplash5198]

Yes I do shoot archery, and that does make sense being similar to torqueing the bow during the release. Hmm

 

[corey4]

exactly. just like torquing the bow during the release, you can do the same by torquing the pistol during the trigger pull.

 

[40xs]

When squeezing the trigger you are sub-conscienciously squeezing the remaining fingers of you hand. this slightly turns the gun to the left. You need to maintain a constant steady hold on the grip and concentrate on only squeezing the trigger finger, nothing else. Use the left hand to help hold the sights on target. You should have been abel to see the sights move as you were squeezing, if not you were probably flinching.

 

[buks]

For those into drills.
Reading about the wall drill, reminded me of another drill that some people may enjoy/find useful.
This is a drill to smooth out the trigger pull. Objective: pull the trigger without moving the gun.
Need: pistol (anything with a flat top slide, like a Glock), one round or shell casing.
You can do this with a shooting buddy (assistant) on the shooting range, as warming up.
or at home.
Make sure pistol is unloaded...assume shooting position...barrel horizontal...have buddy place round on top of the slide
just behind the front sight. Now pull the trigger. Hopefully the round does not fall off the slide.
There is more to get out of this drill.
After you pull the trigger....keep the trigger to the back (follow through)... don't reset.
Have your buddy remove the round (from top of slide)...and (while you keep a firm grip on the gun) have your
buddy cycle the slide....then he/she places the round back on top of the slide again.
So now you also get to practice your trigger reset....no need to release the trigger beyond the point of reset...
that is just a waste of time....and press again. Is that round still standing on top of the slide? Good job!
Repeat.
With a little practice, a shooting pair can get some good dry fire practice in.

Any problems with flinching?....I may have something for that as well.

 

[Unknown]

What is going on is that your hand is functioning as it was designed. To demonstrate, take two fingers of your support hand, and squeeze them with your dominant hand as if they were a pistol grip with your trigger finger extended. Keep the grip as you would when you are holding your pistol, and simulate pulling the trigger. You will feel the tendons in your palm tighten as you simulate pulling the trigger.

This is because the human hand was designed for all the fingers to close in unison. Pulling the trigger is extremely unnatural, so you have to practice exercising it, without unconsciously squeezing the other fingers on your hand. It is tough to overcome, but I have found that when people realize what they are doing, and why they are doing it, it is much easier to correct the problem.

Squeezing all fingers at once pulls a right handed shooter's shots to the 9 o'clock position, and will pull a left handed shooter's shots to the 3 o'clock position.

Now you know what causes it, why it happens, and how to fix it. Best of luck. It is a bitch overcoming what mother nature built into us, but it can be done.