Ok, so I have a question for all of you long range shooters. If money was not an issue, what rifle/scope combo would you choose for shooting past 1 mile? I was thinking a Surgeon .338 Lapua with a Nightforce B.E.A.S.T. scope. But are there any better options out there?
- Thread starter unrealsm
- Start date
Well I am currently shooting a Tactical Operations X-Ray 51. It is a .308 with Tac-Ops base, GG7G sniper grade steel rings, and a Leupold Mark 4 LRT scope. I am just shooting FGMM 168's for now, but I am currently working up some custom reloads using Lapua brass and 175 SMK's.
A .338 won't get you out to 2 miles, we tried. Best bets: DTA .375 or EDM .408 The wildcat calibers Kirby Allen works up will also get it. As far as scopes: Valdada Terminator or the US Optics SN-9 if you can find one. I shoot an NightForce ATACR on my Surgeon .338 PSR and it is strange and wonderful. Plan on a really good ballistic program, spotting scope and range finder. You mileage may vary.
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Milk jug at 1500 yards with 50 percent hit with .308 and you need advise on what rifle and scope you need? As you want to shoot out past 2 miles you are out of my league; however, when I went with a money no object purchase I went with an AIAX in .338, SPUHR mount, S&B optic and an atlas bipod. I think the .338 falls off at around 1600 yards but that's me. Yes it can go further but it depends on what you intend to do i guess. I have taken some shots out to 2500 yards with a .416 but you are talking in excess of 3500 yards and I am too old to even see that far much less have a chance at hitting anything
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I am currently shooting a Mark 4 tactical 3-10 x 40mm. But I want something better for the new rifle. That is why I made this thread. All of my experience is with .308 at around 1000 yards +- so I dont know much about the bigger bore stuff out there. That is why I am asking for advise on Rifle and glass combos for shooting out to 2 miles. I just dont know enough about what is out there for the bigger bore stuff to make informed decisions.
2 miles may be a bit optemistic as well lol. I just want to try to get close to it if possible. Realistically, I will likely be shooting at 1.5 miles mostly. I am getting close to 1 mile with the .308, that is why I am looking to get bigger bore stuff. I already have the LRF and spotter scope to handle it. I just need to upgrade the rifle/optic combo 
You need to get your story straight before one of these folks jumps all over you. First you said you shoot at 1100-1500 yards, then you say all of your experience is at around 1000+- yards, then you come back with the idea that you are almost at a mile (1750 yards). There is a world of difference in making hits at 1000 yards as opposed to 1500 or 1700 yards, especially with a .308
You are absolutely right Hairball. Maybe I wasnt clear enough. But just to be clear, 1 mile is 1760 yards.... not 1750. I have been shooting for about 13 years now with the .308 at 1000 mainly in competitions. I just recently started shooting out to 1500 withing the last year. I used to "push" myself by going out to 1100 with milk jugs because most of the comps I shoot use 18" and 24" targets. I have tried shooting past 1500 with no luck and quickly gave up. that is why I am looking to get something with more range.
I apologize if I was misleading, that was not my intention. I was just looking for info and suggestions for something new. I didnt expect the third degree about what I have currently or how I am shooting it. That is why I didnt go into as much detail as I should have with my previous replies.
I apologize if I was misleading, that was not my intention. I was just looking for info and suggestions for something new. I didnt expect the third degree about what I have currently or how I am shooting it. That is why I didnt go into as much detail as I should have with my previous replies.
I have not shot either a 338 or a 375 but I do know from what I read that it has amazing bc and is made for elr.
I have been reading the same things. And since the .338 components are easy to come by where I am (or at least earier than the 375, 408, etc) I was looking at that as the likely choice. But as I have said before, I don have any experience in big bore stuff and was looking for some advise, or even some comments from first hand users before making a potential 5 figure purchase.
DTA .375 and Vortex Razor 5-20x50 looks to be a great combo:
On edit, to clarify this not my video, it is a popular one from YouTube
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YLSsdzdkS8Y&desktop_uri=/watch?v=YLSsdzdkS8Y
Stats:
".375 CheyTac Desert Tactical Munitions, Factory manufactured with 352 Grain Solid Cutting Edge projectile .89 BC (factual)
3,118 fps at Muzzle aprox 850+ fps at target
Sub MOA accuracy
Temp 13 to 17 (5 to 10 drop with wind chill)
Wind 6 mph (gusts to 10-12)
Baro 30.3
Alt 5,446 ASL
46 Humidity
Target Direction 3 Degrees North
6.5 second flight time
39 Mils with a 500 yard zero.
Optic = Vortex HD 5-20 X 50 with EBR2B reticle. 40 MOA DTA scope mount, elevation maxed, power set to 12, hold was the increment below the bottom post, level with the bottom of target. Two mil left hold center of target. Very good showing".
I think I'd want to use a SFP scope like the ATACR for elr shooting. Notice he was dialed clear back to 12x at over 3000 yards!
On edit, to clarify this not my video, it is a popular one from YouTube
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YLSsdzdkS8Y&desktop_uri=/watch?v=YLSsdzdkS8Y
Stats:
".375 CheyTac Desert Tactical Munitions, Factory manufactured with 352 Grain Solid Cutting Edge projectile .89 BC (factual)
3,118 fps at Muzzle aprox 850+ fps at target
Sub MOA accuracy
Temp 13 to 17 (5 to 10 drop with wind chill)
Wind 6 mph (gusts to 10-12)
Baro 30.3
Alt 5,446 ASL
46 Humidity
Target Direction 3 Degrees North
6.5 second flight time
39 Mils with a 500 yard zero.
Optic = Vortex HD 5-20 X 50 with EBR2B reticle. 40 MOA DTA scope mount, elevation maxed, power set to 12, hold was the increment below the bottom post, level with the bottom of target. Two mil left hold center of target. Very good showing".
I think I'd want to use a SFP scope like the ATACR for elr shooting. Notice he was dialed clear back to 12x at over 3000 yards!
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No way in a 338 Lapua makes it 3300 yards, unless you drive it there. The 300 grain berger bullet has some of the best performance, and even when shot at 2670 fps, it still slows down below 1,000 fps at 2000-2200 yards. Your main issue is that you will run out of internal and external elevation needs past 2100 yards (30 internal, 45 by base). I don't know ballistics of the 408 chey tac or the 375 chey tac, but, I'd say you need a very high BC, more than a 10x scope, and plan on buying powder by the drum, not pound.
Additionally, if your hitting a 6x8 inch target 50%, you are essentially shooting sub .6 MOA at 1100 yards, and that's not too shabby.
For that 338 to make it 3000 yards would require roughly 450 feet of elevation.
Additionally, if your hitting a 6x8 inch target 50%, you are essentially shooting sub .6 MOA at 1100 yards, and that's not too shabby.
For that 338 to make it 3000 yards would require roughly 450 feet of elevation.
Your locations plays a big part in what is going to get you to where but your profile isn't filled out so nobody knows.
If you're not at sea level a 338 will do 1.5 miles but 2 miles isn't going to happen unless you get lucky. That would be my suggestion. As far as what what rifle, AI AWSM or AX338. Why? Because why settle for any less if money is no object. Ero Optic has some very attractive deals going right now on AI rifles and that includes some 338's.
As far as optics I'd run a 5-25 of some sort. S&B or Beast if you don't mind waiting a little while.
If you're not at sea level a 338 will do 1.5 miles but 2 miles isn't going to happen unless you get lucky. That would be my suggestion. As far as what what rifle, AI AWSM or AX338. Why? Because why settle for any less if money is no object. Ero Optic has some very attractive deals going right now on AI rifles and that includes some 338's.
As far as optics I'd run a 5-25 of some sort. S&B or Beast if you don't mind waiting a little while.
Wow all I can say,, 1500 yds with a 308. I have a hard time at that distance with a 300 win mag with 20x optics.
As mentioned .. I would say get the biggest you can afford, as mention the 375 / 416 class pushed hard may work, for whatever build .have the smith fit 2 extra barrels as that kind of shooting will be trial and error, and start searching now for 8lb kegs of the powder of your choice as the bigger rounds will tear it up 3-4 times faster than a 308. I have never shot at 2 miles( with anything less the a 105mm) so I dont know what it takes. Optics would probably be 25x or more top end.
I have ran a 300 win mag ,338 lapua 338 edge to near 1700m as that is the farthest We could safely shoot.. would like to go farther sometime, but my skills are lacking.
Good Luck
As mentioned .. I would say get the biggest you can afford, as mention the 375 / 416 class pushed hard may work, for whatever build .have the smith fit 2 extra barrels as that kind of shooting will be trial and error, and start searching now for 8lb kegs of the powder of your choice as the bigger rounds will tear it up 3-4 times faster than a 308. I have never shot at 2 miles( with anything less the a 105mm) so I dont know what it takes. Optics would probably be 25x or more top end.
I have ran a 300 win mag ,338 lapua 338 edge to near 1700m as that is the farthest We could safely shoot.. would like to go farther sometime, but my skills are lacking.
Good Luck
Good points to ponder guys. I was leaning to the Nightforce B.E.A.S.T. or the S&B PMII in a 5-20 or 5-25 for the scope. But i have never had the opportunity to look through one in person, so deciding on which one to go with will be a tough decision. I am located in southern AZ so I have tons of open space to shoot unlimited ranges. But my ASL starts at 2200ft and in some areas goes as high as 2700ft depending on which side of the city I want to drive to. Thanks for the good info guys. especially on the rifles to look for. That is helping alot.
If image quality is a main concern I can tell you that either option is going to make your MK4 seem like a piece of crap. To most the reliability and features are the most important aspects of an optic and the S&B 5-25 is pretty much the gold standard. The Beast brings different features to the table and everybody knows that NF builds possibly the toughest scopes on the market. Glass is rumored to be great on it as well.
Umm are you really saying you have shot 168 smk's out to 1500 yards?!!! And with a 10x scope?
lol I missed that, he might need to get his LRF checked out. I remember the one time I tried 168 black hills or FGMM at 1200 yards. Out of 50-60 rounds I got one hit on a 24" target and the bullet was sideways. This was on a 100% calm day and I had about a 10-12 pattern. 168's don't do well when they go transonic.
No, I shoot at 1000 in the matches with the 168's but that is really testing its limits. When I shoot anything further than that I use 175 SMK's. But yes, all of my shooting is with the 10x Leupold mark 4. Which may explain why I cant hit anything at 1500 lol. 1100 isnt bad with the 10x though as long as you have a decent spotter.
My experience with M852 match which uses 168 smk put the bullet moving at 2650 at a DA of 2000. Past 850 I had big issues. Switching to M118LR with 175's has been pretty good but I regularly had issues past 950 (likely due to the velocity ES and runout from mil ammo).
For what you are trying to do and your budget (considering you bought a plrf25c with Bluetooth) you should invest in a Trimble Nomad 800 or 900 PDA with Bluetooth and Field Firing Solutions or Patagonia Cold Bore. Combine any round such as a 375, 408, 416 etc with a QUALITY scope (I.e. S&B 5-25, or if budget isn't a problem get the new 3-27 for $5k+, it was designed for observation of objects to 3k yards, maybe a NF 8-32). If you don't mind stuff breaking buy an IOR Terminator, it likely will break but IOR will replace it for free. For the distances involved you should follow the rule 'buy once cry once' considering the cost of ammo versus knowing your misses are YOU.
For what you are trying to do and your budget (considering you bought a plrf25c with Bluetooth) you should invest in a Trimble Nomad 800 or 900 PDA with Bluetooth and Field Firing Solutions or Patagonia Cold Bore. Combine any round such as a 375, 408, 416 etc with a QUALITY scope (I.e. S&B 5-25, or if budget isn't a problem get the new 3-27 for $5k+, it was designed for observation of objects to 3k yards, maybe a NF 8-32). If you don't mind stuff breaking buy an IOR Terminator, it likely will break but IOR will replace it for free. For the distances involved you should follow the rule 'buy once cry once' considering the cost of ammo versus knowing your misses are YOU.
and doing all that with a 168gr.? Don't they get unstable at around 800?
This is all starting to sound reduculous, your story is as inconsistent as one could expect after reading your 1st post. Milk jugs at 1500 with a .308 and a 2500ish DA? Then you say you cant hit anything at 1500? I'll agree with what's been said above, you need to get a real rangefinder. If money is no problem, why are you still playing with a .308? Typically those that jump from .308 to ELR cartridges have more money than sense.
I witnessed the DTA video posted above, it was an awsome spectacle. And only accomplished with the finest equipment available and plenty of help from technology. Even so, it wasn't easy to put it on a real world sized target (man sized).
Honestly I'm not buying it but who am I to judge. All I hope is that the equipment is used safely! Spend money on the best stuff, go shoot, BE SAFE. I've seen a bunch of guys show up to the range or competition all geared up and can't utilize their equipment to get the results they want, simply because they don't have the skills to back it up. Everyone has to start somewhere, are you going the correct route? Probably not. Does it matter? Not really. Go spend 40-50k on equipment and go spend some cash on learning to use it. Have fun in the process. I have a good bit of fun and pretty neat equipment and occasionally probably lug too much stuff around with me, in the end I feel I utilize what I have pretty well and back it up with the rankings in matches I shoot in. Even when I place first or second in a match, I still feel like I have walked away with more knowledge than I came with.
I have not shot the 375 but I do have a 338. The 375 will be my next stop if I go bigger. The 375 from what I have read has a lot of advantages including bullet selection and not limited to solids. The 375 has the ability to get to the ranges you want to achieve better ballistic wise.
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