- Thread starter 06boss
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I don't know what they use exactly.
I like Varget
It will work well
I like Varget
It will work well
Wait, you talking 308 or 30-06?
I cant remember but the bright orange IMR I had great luck with. Buy 8lbs of Varget when you get the chance. WIth the 175's in a 308 its a killer powder. Not temp sensitive either. About 43.5-45 grains I bet. (Don't quote me) Good luck finding some. I got a jug or two recently different placese.
IIRC back in '05 or '06 i pulled one of the BH 175 grn pills and the case was filled with a ball powder. I had problems with the three or so boxes, blown primers about three out of each box. I remember a few others experienced problems then too. IDK if they have sinced changed powders or not but I have stayed away from them. I would load the bullet to about 2550-2630 with any proven extruded powder. You will get good accuracy. Look at 4064, Varget or either 4895....
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They did use to use TAC... that was the ball powder you found when you opened one up. The problem with TAC was that ES was pretty bad, and vertical was really bad at long range.
The last batch of Blackhills we looked at (red and black box) had 42 grains of one of Hodgdon's extreme powders in it. I don't know which powder it was, as we didn't do enough testing to confirm. Candidates would be Varget or H4895. At 42.0 grains in what is really Winchester brass (I once found a .243 Winchester factory round with a headstamp "BHA 308 Match")... I would guess they're running H4895. That's a safe load to try, anyway...
Dan
The last batch of Blackhills we looked at (red and black box) had 42 grains of one of Hodgdon's extreme powders in it. I don't know which powder it was, as we didn't do enough testing to confirm. Candidates would be Varget or H4895. At 42.0 grains in what is really Winchester brass (I once found a .243 Winchester factory round with a headstamp "BHA 308 Match")... I would guess they're running H4895. That's a safe load to try, anyway...
Dan
FWIW: I mostly reload, but I did buy some Black Hills 175 Match (red and black box) a while ago and ran just three rounds through a chronograph. They were 2619-2624-2624 for an average of 2622 ft/sec. and coverable by a dime at 100 yards. Rem 700 24" bbl. 65* F. 300 ft above sea level.
Varget took about 44 grains to get an average velocity of 2623 ft/sec with the 175gr SMK. I don't think this gave very good accuracy though, much better around 45.0-max load.
-Lapua Brass
-Fed 210M
-2.800"
However, I THINK Black Hills uses 175gr. Hornady bullets, not the SMK.
Varget took about 44 grains to get an average velocity of 2623 ft/sec with the 175gr SMK. I don't think this gave very good accuracy though, much better around 45.0-max load.
-Lapua Brass
-Fed 210M
-2.800"
However, I THINK Black Hills uses 175gr. Hornady bullets, not the SMK.
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Wazzu... I agree that it would probably take closer to 44 grains of Varget in Winchester brass to make 2600 fps in most .308's. The new charge is probably 42 grains of H4895 that you saw give those good numbers and tight accuracy.
Hornady doesn't make 175s.. they make 178's.
I don't know if Black Hills is using Sierra 175's, but would assume they are as they use a lot of other Sierra bullets...
Dan
Hornady doesn't make 175s.. they make 178's.
I don't know if Black Hills is using Sierra 175's, but would assume they are as they use a lot of other Sierra bullets...
Dan
Dan,
Thank you for responding to my post. I have read through your website many times and find your writings to be very informative, well-thougt out, and always professional. So, thank you for sharing your knowledge! In all honesty, I am a little intimidated even communicating with you as your knowledge so far outweighs mine and I really do respect your opinions. Kinda like a kid meeting their favorite baseball player!
You are so right about the Hornady 178…not sure what I was thinking. I may very well be confusing this with something else, but I thought my Dad spoke to a BH representative that said they were using Hornady bullets (in this specific load) instead of the SMK as this gave them something different to bring to the table as most other manufacturers are using the SMK. Like I said though, I may be confusing this with something else; either company or bullet.
My other reason for thinking they don't use the SMK though is based on the COL and base to ogive measurements. According to my records from about two years ago:
BH Match: COL 2.809"
BH Match: Ogive 2.050"
Hand Loaded 175 MK: COL 2.809"
Hand Loaded 175 MK: Ogive 2.102"
Difference of .052" base-to-ogive with the same COL.
Assuming my measurements are somewhat accurate, am I correct in assuming a bullet other than the SMK is being used? I very much welcome your thoughts and opinions. Unfortunately, I do not have any more BH ammo to make further comparisons. Thank you again for all your contributions to the shooting community!
Thank you for responding to my post. I have read through your website many times and find your writings to be very informative, well-thougt out, and always professional. So, thank you for sharing your knowledge! In all honesty, I am a little intimidated even communicating with you as your knowledge so far outweighs mine and I really do respect your opinions. Kinda like a kid meeting their favorite baseball player!
You are so right about the Hornady 178…not sure what I was thinking. I may very well be confusing this with something else, but I thought my Dad spoke to a BH representative that said they were using Hornady bullets (in this specific load) instead of the SMK as this gave them something different to bring to the table as most other manufacturers are using the SMK. Like I said though, I may be confusing this with something else; either company or bullet.
My other reason for thinking they don't use the SMK though is based on the COL and base to ogive measurements. According to my records from about two years ago:
BH Match: COL 2.809"
BH Match: Ogive 2.050"
Hand Loaded 175 MK: COL 2.809"
Hand Loaded 175 MK: Ogive 2.102"
Difference of .052" base-to-ogive with the same COL.
Assuming my measurements are somewhat accurate, am I correct in assuming a bullet other than the SMK is being used? I very much welcome your thoughts and opinions. Unfortunately, I do not have any more BH ammo to make further comparisons. Thank you again for all your contributions to the shooting community!
Wazzu... you give me way too much credit. I can be wrong about things about as often as I'm right... So don't bet the farm on anything I tell you, necessarily. 
I know that the BH ammo says it's got 175 grain match bullets in it... they load Sierra 77's in their 223's, as well as Sierra's 69's... the only 175's other than Sierras out there are pert near clones of the Sierra MK's (excepting Berger's 175's, but I'd say it's a safe bet BH isn't using Berger bullets).
So I don't have an answer for the disparity you saw between the ogive measurements you mention... I just dunno.
I know that the BH ammo says it's got 175 grain match bullets in it... they load Sierra 77's in their 223's, as well as Sierra's 69's... the only 175's other than Sierras out there are pert near clones of the Sierra MK's (excepting Berger's 175's, but I'd say it's a safe bet BH isn't using Berger bullets).
So I don't have an answer for the disparity you saw between the ogive measurements you mention... I just dunno.
Wazzu... you give me way too much credit. I can be wrong about things about as often as I'm right... So don't bet the farm on anything I tell you, necessarily.
I know that the BH ammo says it's got 175 grain match bullets in it... they load Sierra 77's in their 223's, as well as Sierra's 69's... the only 175's other than Sierras out there are pert near clones of the Sierra MK's (excepting Berger's 175's, but I'd say it's a safe bet BH isn't using Berger bullets).
So I don't have an answer for the disparity you saw between the ogive measurements you mention... I just dunno.
It is also very possible my measurements were taken incorrectly or I made some other error. It's been known to happen
Not trying to hijack this thread, but any thoughts on IMR 8208 XBR for the 168/175 SMK in 308? I've read this is a great powder for the 155 grain class of bullets, but hear mixed reviews using heavier bullets. Any thoughts or experiences would be appreciated!
I love 8208XBR for the 77g SMK load I have in .223.
However in .308 it is to fast IMO for the heavier bullets. Like you said, its good up to the 155's. 4064, R15, Varget, CFE223 area on the burn chart is a better choice IMO. I have a bunch of R17 I have been wanting to try on some 175's, but I think it may be to slow.
Thanks. Mostly wondering if it was worth the time/money trying to work up a load with the heavier bullets. But, I am probably better off sticking with the powders you mentioned above. I guess I have a hard time leaving good enough alone.
I've also had great luck with 8208 in 223. I was just loading 55gr Nosler BTips though. Even through a progressive, it consistently produced 0.75" groups or better from a stock SPS Tac, with the occasional 1/2 MOA in good conditions. Loading just under Hodgdon's listed max.
RL17…haven't tried this powder in the 308…would be interested in the results if you do load any though. Alliant does show a couple load recipes on their website. They list a max load of 46.7gr for the 180 gr Speer BTSP w/velocity claim of 2641 ft/sec from a 22" bbl. Goes w/o saying, but, always start 10% lower and confirm all loads listed on any forum.
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I'm pretty sure BH uses 175SMKs in their .308s or at least that was what I was told by several folks before I started trying to duplicate the factory round a couple years back. Using BH brass, 44.5gr of Varget produced nearly identical velocity (2,661fps) and accuracy out of my guns @ 2.795 OAL.
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