Vietnam M70 thread

[AK Sgt Maj]

I'm hoping someone here can answer this for me. I bought this stock from Numrich many years ago. It was listed as a 70 target and I was going to use it for a pre '64 HP build. It looks like some of the other stocks with the exception of the pistol grip cap to me. What do you think?

Adding more questions, This has a "repair" piece of wood on the bottom of the forend where I think a short rail would have been. If yours has a rail, how long is it? The bottom of the stock has the holes drilled already for a sling swivel. The length of the entire barrel channel also looks like it's either been bedded or epoxied. Is that normal?

You want to check the action length, as the post 64 is about 1/4" longer than the pre 64, so the stocks will not interchange, but can be reworked if you really want to use one on the other.
Also, there were some post 64 Model 70's used, that were gotten from some PX's and reworked, before the M40 was finally in the system.

 

[Mike Radford]

Here is my CMP M70 with 8X USMC Unertl.

 

[Stranded Yank]

Also, there were some post 64 Model 70's used, that were gotten from some PX's and reworked, before the M40 was finally in the system.

Do you have any more information on these post-64's as this is the first I have heard of a post-64 being used in Vietnam...

Were they chambered for .30 Cal(.30-06) or 7.62x51... what scope was used... etc...

I know there was a lot of improvising... any more details would be greatly appreciated.

 

[kraigWY]

I never heard of Post-64's being used in Vietnam but understand many units didn't have full fledge programs but had designated snipers and I did see a lot of Model 70s, some even pure hunting rifles in '06, so they could have been around. Just not in numbers.

I got this post 64 Model 70 from the CMP, its an ex army rifle (target) in 308. It didn't come with any glass, just the mounts so I don't know what was used on it.

 

[AK Sgt Maj]

There are various reports of some Mod 70's be bought at the PX's on some bases in 66, in just hunting configuration and being taken back and the armorers bedding and scoping them and they would have had to be post 64's. Most grunt's would not have any idea of the differences.

 

[AK Sgt Maj]

I never heard of Post-64's being used in Vietnam but understand many units didn't have full fledge programs but had designated snipers and I did see a lot of Model 70s, some even pure hunting rifles in '06, so they could have been around. Just not in numbers.

I got this post 64 Model 70 from the CMP, its an ex army rifle (target) in 308. It didn't come with any glass, just the mounts so I don't know what was used on it.

I have one like that, but with a heavy Douglas barrel, from about 82. I had it rechambered to 06 and bought the new magazine, follower and spring from Winchester and modified the bolt stop myself, to match another Model 70 hunting rifle, in 06 that I have. It's all bedded and shoots pretty good.
Does your's have the stripper clip guide, that is like a scope base on it. Mine had, but I took it off when I made it into a 06.

 

[kraigWY]

Does your's have the stripper clip guide, that is like a scope base on it. Mine had, but I took it off when I made it into a 06.

No the clip guide is built into the receiver. I do have the combo scope mount/stripper clip guide on a couple other model 70s, They work quite well also.

 

[accurange]

Not mine but, there is a Vietnam Winchester sniper stock listed on Ebay right now ebay# 200930446684 seller is good to go. I was able to buy my redfield 40x base for my green redfield scoped m40 build a few years back. he has sold quite a few USMC sniper scopes in the past

 

[eodcam]

Well purchased a new toy today, can't wait to get it. I found a Pre 64 US Property Marked M70 in 308. The seller bought it years ago on a CMP auction has all the paperwork and shipping container. I've seen one of these at our Vintage Precision Rifle match at Quantico. This should be one of the USAF Security Forces Rifles mentioned in Senich's "One Round War" Will post pics as soon as I get her in.

 

[BrianLara400]

Good work Cam, I do remember the USAF one pictured in the book, always wondered what the white patches on the grip & fore-end were - some kind of texturing that's been added in service? Also I've always heard that the model 70 clip slotting of the Pre-64 & later target models, was very similar or identical to that of the Remingtons - just wondering if anyone is able to confirm that. I've been able to find Remington factory clip slot drawings but not so ones detailing the Winchester pattern - is it fine to go with the ambiguous drawings I've got?

 

[eodcam]

Thanks BL! I'm not sure what the texture is, I always thought someone used medical tape for grip! As far as the clip slotting goes, from what I understand, they are different. There's a Gunsmith out in California, that does excellent clip slotting and he said they are not the same. When you ask him about getting it done, he'll ask if you want the VN M40, the 40x or Winchester slotting. He told me the Winchester is actually the best of the bunch when you are shooting ATC.
Off topic, but When I was doing the research to have my M40A3 and A5 built, I found out there's actually differences in the slotting on them. Certain cuts that were on the VN M40, the A1 and the early A3 (not sure when they stopped doing them) have been omitted on the A5. You cant see them with out looking into the action, but there is a difference. I guess its how far into the weeds you want to get, but the Devil is in the details!

 

[RTH1800]

Is this a factory heavy barrel or a Douglas barrel? Or standard weight factory barrel.
Thanks,
RTH

 

[eodcam]

Not sure of the make, it's a SS barrel. As soon as I get it, I'll post pics. If you look at the pic in Senichs book it appears to be SS also. The one I have seen in person that came from the CMP had a SS barrel on it too.

 

[RTH1800]

Sir,
Sounds very nice, looking forward to the pics.
RTH

 

[sandwarrior]

So glad this thread is back up and running. I was not aware that post '64's were used in VN either. But, it makes sense they were. Another issue I had heard of was how many various cartridges were tested 'in the field'. Among them the .300 AMU and 7mm Rem mag., and a 6mm something. I wonder what rifles those were chambered in?

 

[Sargesniper]

From what I understand is they go back to WWII and Korea, however the Marine leadership at the time didn't beleive they needed a new sniper rifle, because they had the 1903 and the M1. When Nam got moving they came to realize they did, and the decided to use the M70 because the Rifle team shooters started up the training program and they shot the M70. They mounted the scopes off the 1941 snipers and did their thing. Meanwhile, the requirements for a new sniper rifle was being developed and the M40 came about and phased out the 70.
My buddy's has one of the old rifle team M70s. Its a trophy rifle he hand picked from the Marine Shooting teams arms room at Quantico. It's marked, well electro penciled U.S. PROPERTY On the front receiver ring. Its pretty B.A.

I have the exact rifle also,markings and all. ................ SEMPER FI!

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

You all know there where originally three types of Model 70 target rifles.

The original National Match had the marksman stock, target scope blocks but the barrel was the standard sporter contour barrel and sporter rifle sights fitted to them.

The target rifle had the marksman stock and a heavier straight tapered contoured barrel and was available in a multiple calibers. From calibers like .220 swift, to .30-06 etc....and if I recall most of the barrels where 24" or 26" finish length.

The target rifle that is commonly referred to as the bull gun had a 28" finish length barrel and if I recall correctly only available in .300 H&H Mag.

The original guns the USMC purchased had the sporter barrels (national match rifles). These where at some point in time rebarreled with a heavier straight taper target type barrel made by Douglas.

Set your gun up properly and it will be a great shooting gun.

I'm taking a early '50s target rifle that is in .30-06 (barrel is pitted in the bore) and some hack shortened the buttstock like a 1/2" and fitted a recoil pad but other than that it's nice. Got a new barrel made for it but has to be installed as of yet. Still going to be .30-06, the gun already wears a Unertl scope and will reglass bed it. Last but not least will take off the recoil pad and repair the stock and refit an original steel butt plate.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

Mr. Frank, with the heavy Douglas barrel, do you know the dimensions and length on that?

 

[Frank Green]

Mr. Frank, with the heavy Douglas barrel, do you know the dimensions and length on that?

Not off hand. Never seen one with a Douglas that I could measure it. Some say they had 1.200" breech ends 3" long with a .900" muzzle (The Douglas #7 contour which is the same as our #14) but I cannot confirm this as of yet.

The standard Win. target contour was 1.140" x 2.000" and str. taper to .780" @ 24".

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[Frank Green]

Guys, I know there was talk about looking for replacement Marksman style stocks. The guys at Wyoming Armory are looking at making a small run of stocks out of walnut. I'm going to get two of them. Sounds like the stocks will be inletted in the action area and the barrel channel just roughed in. That way you can inlet the barrel channel for the type of contour you have or gonna put on your gun. Also sounds like the outside of the stock will either be close to being finish sanded and even possibly a coat of finish applied as well. Not sure of price as of yet. I just found out this morning. If your interested in one give them a call. Here is a link to they're website. Wyoming Armory

They're website is primarily dedicated to building single shot rifles but they do build tactical style and match rifles as well. They build a good gun. When Steve Garbe was with Ballard Rifles making a reproduction of the old Ballards they built me one. Also I have an original Ballard 6 1/2 Rigby back by them for some work. So they do great work.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[HD-Ghost]

Model 70

Here is my pre-64 National Match M70 in .30-06; marked "U.S. Property". Sold thru the CMP. The scope is a Lyman 20x Super Target marked "USMC Property". Have another M70 manufactured in1956, but is not US marked.

 

[Frank Green]

Here is my pre-64 National Match M70 in .30-06; marked "U.S. Property". Sold thru the CMP. The scope is a Lyman 20x Super Target marked "USMC Property". Have another M70 manufactured in1956, but is not US marked.

Nice looking gun! Is the barrel a factory marked Winchester barrel?

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels