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Some questions on a 6.5 CM custom build

S

Smooth73

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 2, 2013
54
0
Park Falls, WI
Hey Guys,

I'm working on a new custom build 6.5 CM based on a Savage action for LDS. I've noticed this has become a pretty popular build, and I've seen a lot of information on the subject here on The Hide. This is a new project for me, so I just want to clear up some things from some of you guys who have already done this. The information I'm providing is assuming I'll be having Jim from NSS supply some parts and do the work. The goal is to make a competition worthy precision rifle.

Action:
I'll be using a new Savage action, but which one would you recommend? Is there a significant advantage to using one of Jim's Target actions, or would you just buy a Model 12 or similar to build off of?

Barrel:
I will likely purchase a Criterion Barrel from Jim, but length and contour ideas? I'm thinking 24" at least, but I have no idea about contour. I may want to put a can on eventually, but that's not a major priority right now. Main concerns are accuracy, barrel life, and ease of swapping out.

Stock:
I'm leaning toward an AI-style unit. Primary goal is adjustability and hopefully something that doesn't need to be smith-bedded. I don't know if that's possible with this setup, but you guys know way more about that than I do.

Thanks so much for the input, I appreciate all your help. Just looking to pool the knowledge from all the previous builds like this.
 
Forgot to add- If there's anything that I'm not considering or left out, let me know and I'll provide any other information you're looking for :)
 
Any of the target/varmint actions will work or any m10 or 12 action. Just depends if you want factory heavy bolt knob or doing an aftermarket. 24" will provide all the length you need to move a 140gr at at least 2850fps. May as well thread it if there is a can in your future. Contour I like to keep lighter for matches for off hand and kneeling and lots of movement I dont like the m40 or heavy varmint contours. Rem var/sendero and med palma are my favorites. Bartlein has several awesome contours but im not sure what criterion offers. You won't need to bed a chassis. Mcrees is probably your best bet and best price for a savage. Full adjustability and a folder.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
 
I recently bought a stainless varmint action, shilen bbl, lug and barrel nut from Jim. Great guy to deal with.
Not sure if you knew this or not but the target actions are single shot only and large shank which seems to have
fewer bbl choices without waiting. I am very impressed with this so far, it was my first ever build and I did all the work myself.
This is a half moa gun if I do my part with 140 amax factory ammo. Good luck.
 
Well as you can see from my signature, I've got a savage 12 with a manners t4a and a criterion barrel from Jim.

As for contour, Jim normally has two (well that you should consider for LR) those are the bull barrels and the factory heavy. (I think I got the names right). Anyway, the factory contour is normally 26" in length and around .8 at the muzzle while the bull is like a truck axle.. 1" @ the muzzle and 28" long. I have the bull barrel and my rifle is heavy. It would be less heavy/ maneuverable if it was 24" but even more so if I had gone with the lighter contour.

I think 24" will be sufficient, especially if you plan on getting a suppressor and running comps with it. I still run comps with mine but some times I wish I had a lighter, easier to maneuverable rifle.

I say just get a regular savage/stevens action, no use in the target action.

I have an XLR chassis and the manners. so you may want to look into the XLR too. But i've been looking into a mcree chassis as well.

One more thing to consider, if you reload or not. If you do, you can get away with a shorter barrel by pushing your loads a little. if you will buy factory, a longer barrel will help you keep velocity up.
 
I would make sure whatever action you get has the older style side bolt-release, and not the new style triggerguard release. More stock options for the old style, although you can rework some for the newer style.

My .260 is built on a Savage 11 Hog Hunter action with a McGowen .260 Varmint barrel, 12LRP takeoff HS stock, and CDI bottom metal.
 
Smooth73 said:
Stock:
I'm leaning toward an AI-style unit. Primary goal is adjustability and hopefully something that doesn't need to be smith-bedded. I don't know if that's possible with this setup, but you guys know way more about that than I do.

Thanks so much for the input, I appreciate all your help. Just looking to pool the knowledge from all the previous builds like this.
Click to expand...

XLR chassis.

No bedding needed. Adjustable for LoP, cheek riser height, and cant. Available with folder mechanism. Love the two I got.
 
+1 on trying to get an "older" version that has the side bolt release as opposed to the bottom bolt release. The screw spacing doesn't matter as much as the bolt release location.
 
Thanks for the heads up on the target action.....I just thought it was a match grade version, not a single shot.

Also good to know about the bolt release on older models, a friend of mine has that setup on their .270 I think. Are there aftermarket actions with the side release made, or am gonna have to track down an older rifle that has it?

What about converting for drop mags? I've heard that some have had to have some work done for DBM to accomodate this? I'd like to get some more information on how that works....have seen it discussed but not sure as to why. Is it particular to the type of stock used, or the type of magazines you'll be using.

Thanks again guys
 
MtnCreek- Yep, i think if you google Northwoods Shooter's Supply it should come up, that's where I initially looked when planning this thing. Make sure you check the spelling on this and get the right one though, there's quite a few places with a similar name. It should have his name somewhere on the home page.

Also, if I'm understanding this correctly, the action I get should largely depend on what stock/chassis I'm going to use? Does mag choice come into play also? I would think a five rounder would be sufficient for the purpose, which is mainly going to be LR practice for now.

For you guys that have worked with Jim in the past, is this stuff I can go over with him over the phone? He may be able to answer much of this, but I don't want to tie him up with a shit ton of questions and be a pain in the ass right out of the gate, lol. I guess I'm trying to do my homework here so I know what I'm looking at right away when I call.

All the responses have been a big help!
 
I've been down this road a few times. I would look for a model 10 short action that has the the 4.4" bolt spacing and the center feed DBM system. Stick with the factory varmint barrel contour, the bull barrel profile is too heavy for run and gun style matches. I shoot 26" barrels for the velocity edge, I have never felt it hindered my ability to handle the rifle in tight spaces, not enough to give up the velocity anyway. Most of my Savages are in H-S Precision stocks with CDI bottom metal, I like the feel of a conventional stock more than a chassis. I have used the McRee chassis and would highly recommend them, I just couldn't get used to the aluminum feel of it. Neither the H-S Precision or the McRee require bedding. I also shoot with the factory accu-trigger, I adjust them to 2-2.5 lbs and have no issues with there performance. I really like the Savage for their home building options, they are like the bolt action version of the AR, with the proper tools you can build and rebuild them however and when ever you feel like it.

Steve B.
 
Big fan of the XLR chassis, makes for a nice balance for rifles with around a 24 inch barrel. AI stocks are heavy if you a smaller guy like me.

the only down side to savages are the resale value. you are never going to get what you put into it. i like Bighorn actions or stillers.



good luck with your build. i am building a 6.5 creedmoor lefty. right now , just buying it a piece at a time.
 
Awesome information Steve and Mtn, that is a big help!

So I guess that just leaves one major decision- stock or chassis system. I like the modularity and ease of home smithing you get with a chassis system, but which is going to be more accurate? I've heard that some chassis systems are not as consistent as a stock would be. Any thoughts?

Steve- I'm assuming then that I will be looking to purchase the base rifle as opposed to trying to find just the Model 10 action you were describing? Or is that something I could actually find online somewhere...
 
I bought mine as complete rifles, model 10 FCP's. You may be able to find just the action however, Jim at Northland Shooting Supply had some in the past. When you call him for the barrel ask him, he may have them back in stock or give you a lead on where to find one.
 
That's what I'm also looking at doing, Bungle.

I'm buying this stuff a little at a time also to make it more affordable, and I chose the Savage action as it's a proven action for this build. Accurate and easy to work on/modify as you go. I may check into the ones you mentioned also, as it's looking like the action itself (maybe the trigger) would be the only original Savage parts on it when I'm done, lol.

I started the project with cost effectiveness in mind. I figured I could build a competition worthy precision rifle pretty cheap going this route (minus the optics, that shit always drains the wallet). Scope will probably be close to what I have in the rifle lol. Not sure though, I'm looking at the Mcrees right now and me likey. Cheaper than AI, and still very nice. If I stuck with Savage, I'll probably be around 1300 to 1500 done. Not too bad, i think.
 
Too funny.......

What is the likelihood that I'll find one with side mounted bolt release lever? That was mentioned above and I hadn't even given that a thought until now....I would prefer it there vs. the trigger version.
 
timney gets my money for triggers.

the reason i went with a custom action, is buy the time you buy a donor rifle, have it trued , you could almost buy the custom.

the mcree stocks are nice. on my build i will be buying a mcrees or XLR.
 
Ok, bungle you've got my attention.........so riddle me this.

I like the Mcrees chassis - G5 non folder....probably do that. They say it's drop-in for stock actions, so assuming the custom action will also work how much of this can I do myself?

Can I mate the custom barrel (likely Criterion or other comparable) to the action myself? I would like to be able to switch out barrels myself without having to have it smithed as I go through them. If so, then I probably wouldn't have to even send it to Jim....I can mate the action to the chassis (pending I won't have to have the bottom metal removed) and drop in the Timney as they are pretty nice. I was sticking with the Savage trigger based on the idea I would be using their action, and I've heard they're also nice for factory.
 
LOL.....us gun guys are freakin' nuts.

Isn't it funny how almost all gun projects that initially start out simple evolve into some major friggin' albatross?

This is beginning to take on a life of its own lol...
 
I'd say the likelihood of you being able to find a savage/savage action with the side bolt release is pretty good. Savage just recently changed it over. Just look around at used stuff and it shouldn't be a problem.

I believe the Mcree will be a drop-in for pretty much any action you use.

Now if you go with a savage, they don't need any truing or blueprinting so there's no added cost there. But a lot of people do that for remington 700's. So buying a savage action/donor rifle is no where near the cost of a custom action ~$1000.

You said you'd like to do most of the work on your own, that's not really recommended with any other actions besides the savage, unless you "convert" the 700 to rem-age. All you need to swap a barrel on a savage action is about $100-150 worth of tools. Action wrench, barrel nut wrench, go/no-go gauges, and I think thats about it.
 
Thanks Triceratops, that's what I initially suspected, which is why I started with the Savage as a base for the project.

Outside of that, I think I'm sold on the Mcrees G5. Maybe won't switch out the barrel until I see how it performs.

Here i was starting to think I would have to start picking out names....I'll probably still have a shower though (you guys are invited, don't be cheap on the gifts) :)
 
I looked at the Model 12 as my first choice also, very nice. Definitely recommend changing the stock at least, Clayne. I guess there was an issue with the floating barrel making contact with the Hogue, causing occassional fliers and whatnot. Even if you haven't seen that yet, I don't know if I would want to....eesh.
 
That is a great looking weapon clayne, very subtle. Thanks for sharing it with us!

The G5 impresses me, but haven't made up my mind on a folder or not. I think the only benefit for me on that end would be that it fit in my case easier having a folder.
 
Savage still makes plenty of top/side bolt release actions; in the lower price sphere the 11 Hunter XP (NOT 11 Trophy Hunter XP), Stevens 200 and 11 Hog Hunter are all current production old/top/side/mo betta' style. The 11 Hunter XP even comes with the mo betta' steel factory DBM, as opposed to the Trophy Hunter XP's abortion of an integrated plastic price point DBM.

I'm an unabashed Savage fan, but I really wish they'd stop messing with stuff that didn't need messed with. They might have been trying to address the 'Savages are ugly' bit with the smooth barrel nut and bottom bolt release but it served to further reduce the available aftermarket (and piss off loyal Savage owners) as a 'change for change's sake' type of thing.
 
clayne_b said:
I went with a Savage 12 LRP 6.5 Creedmoor, I have no plans to change a thing... although I did go with an aftermarket 10 round mag.
Click to expand...

Buy the 12 LRP($900), add two Dark Eagle Custom 10 round magazines ($95 each) and call it a day. You can alsways put it in a chassis, Manners or McMillian down the road if you don't like the HS Precision stock. After you shoot out the factory Savage barrel you can rebarrel with your choice of custom prefits. Lastly, gussie it up with paint and Cerakote.

Primary Comp Rifle .260Rem

Backup Comp Rifle 6.5 Creedmoor
 
I love that backpack, somebody was thinking there....

nice pair of rifles bunsen, the .260 looks pretty sweet.

How much was the Cerakote for the 6.5? Looks like it turned out pretty friggin' good....
 
BoilerUP said:
Savage still makes plenty of top/side bolt release actions; in the lower price sphere the 11 Hunter XP (NOT 11 Trophy Hunter XP), Stevens 200 and 11 Hog Hunter are all current production old/top/side/mo betta' style. The 11 Hunter XP even comes with the mo betta' steel factory DBM, as opposed to the Trophy Hunter XP's abortion of an integrated plastic price point DBM.

I'm an unabashed Savage fan, but I really wish they'd stop messing with stuff that didn't need messed with. They might have been trying to address the 'Savages are ugly' bit with the smooth barrel nut and bottom bolt release but it served to further reduce the available aftermarket (and piss off loyal Savage owners) as a 'change for change's sake' type of thing.
Click to expand...

I agree totally.....not just Savage but most manufacturers these days. I have no idea what goes on in these guys' heads. They hire some new marketing genius that says "hey this has been great for the last decade, let's f*ck with it".
 
Appreciate the link clayne! Definitely looks worth checking out. Let us know how the pack holds up with more use. (Sorry, not trying the hijack the thread.) To the OP, I've been using the McRee folding chassis for over a year and really like it.
 
Ok, so this is where I'm at so far, after speaking with Jim this morning for about 15 min.:

Savage Varmint Stainless action with Varmint trigger, all the included work/goodies: ~500.00

Criterion Hand-lapped Match Grade @26" barrel: ~300.00

Mcrees G5 Model 1 fixed: ~627.00 (paid 75.00 more for Coyote, which figures)

So that's say 1500.00 into a rifle that was going to cost me over a grand anyway, that should be of considerable quality over stock. Don't know if I can argue against it. And the nice thing is I can do it a piece at a time. Game on.
 
OneShotJim said:
Appreciate the link clayne! Definitely looks worth checking out. Let us know how the pack holds up with more use. (Sorry, not trying the hijack the thread.) To the OP, I've been using the McRee folding chassis for over a year and really like it.
Click to expand...

No worries, the pack is badass and is completely relevant to argue for the folding stock, which I may have to do now lol.
 
You know it......

I think that's the nicest thing about NSS, is that you can basically do the whole thing from one place and Jim's a good guy who knows his stuff.
 
Smooth73 said:
Ok, so this is where I'm at so far, after speaking with Jim this morning for about 15 min.:

Savage Varmint Stainless action with Varmint trigger, all the included work/goodies: ~500.00

Criterion Hand-lapped Match Grade @26" barrel: ~300.00

Mcrees G5 Model 1 fixed: ~627.00 (paid 75.00 more for Coyote, which figures)

So that's say 1500.00 into a rifle that was going to cost me over a grand anyway, that should be of considerable quality over stock. Don't know if I can argue against it. And the nice thing is I can do it a piece at a time. Game on.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a good build to me. Not a fan of stainless but once it's painted up, it'll look more "tacticool" lol.

Alot like mine but I built off a savage 12flv base rifle and went with the manners t4a. I would probably drop the extra $53 for the folder, but that's just me. I'll make it more compact, which I like. I know my next stock or chassis will most likely be a folder.
 
triceratops3 said:
Sounds like a good build to me. Not a fan of stainless but once it's painted up, it'll look more "tacticool" lol.

Alot like mine but I built off a savage 12flv base rifle and went with the manners t4a. I would probably drop the extra $53 for the folder, but that's just me. I'll make it more compact, which I like. I know my next stock or chassis will most likely be a folder.
Click to expand...

The long term plan is to have everything Cerakote to match the chassis, the Mcrees will be ordered in FDE. I'm just looking at stainless to hold up in the meantime. Do you know how much a Cerakote job is? I haven't looked into that part yet, as it's mostly aesthetic anyway. I'm sure that's not cheap either.

What can you tell me about the 12flv? How is that different than say the model 12 LRP or Varmint? Is it barrel or action, or both? If you don't mind me asking, what did the base rifle run you? Barrell Length? Jim recommended a longer barrel length for LDS accuracy....but don't know what length would work best while still being somewhat maneuverable.

Thanks man, sounds like a real nice build!
 
Smooth, sounds like you have got it figured out. Excellent choice on all the components. I would stick with the 26" barrel, like I said before I like the velocity gain from the longer barrel. I don't notice any difference between a 24 vs 26 handling wise, you would have to go down to the 20" range to feel much difference in tight spaces. And at that length you give up the speed that really lets the 6.5 shine.

Steve
 
For the cerakote job, I'm not entirely sure. I wanna say mine was about 150-200 but I don't remember. I'll try to find out though. Yeah, uncoated stainless isn't a bad way to go.

the 12flv is the left handed version of the 12fv which is a varmint action. I think it's mostly just the finish. matte vs satin vs stainless. also, for factory rifles the available calibers is different and so is if it's a dbm or not. the lrp has dbm but the varmint does not, I believe.

I believe I got mine for about $500-$550 It was a .223 with 26" barrel. Just looked around at the FV and they were all around $600, which is more than just the action from Jim. I think the 26" varmint barrel in 6.5 would be a good compromise. that'll give you some extra velocity, especially with factory ammo. Mines the 28" Bull barrel with a muzzle brake and while it gets heavy, I've never been in a situation where I couldn't maneuver it albeit, there were many instances the lighter barrel contour and couple less inches of length would be nice.

here's a pic of it in the manners before black cerakote and brake.
 
I think all of Jim's barrels that he has in stock are 26", I would have to order it in 24 if I wanted it. I wouldn't do that though, as I don't want to sacrifice accuracy vs. maneuverability. I will likely have the barrel braked instead of a can, that wouldn't come until waaayy down the road, so the barrel issue right now for me is contour. I like the looks and performance you get out of a bull barrel. Triceratops' bull version with the brake is what I would be looking at, his is really sharp looking.

This rifle will spend more time on a bench rest or from prone than anything else. Run and gun would be few and far between, but with that said I don't want to be lugging around a boat anchor either. This is where the contour/lenght part becomes a discussion. I would give up the can altogether if it means having a good accurate rifle as it is alone. Not like the 6.5 is that loud anyway, braking kicks it up a notch, but it's not that horrible.

My Browning BAR .308 w/BOSS muzzle brake is f*cking LOUD... people hear that shit going off in the next zip code.
 
That is a nice stick, Triceratops! Just the look alone is a major incentive for me to go with the bull barrel, plus I'll likely have it braked also. Jim recommended that based on the gun's purpose, to go with either 26" or 28" varmint or bull contour for LD accuracy. I just picked the varmint for weight reasons, but I think that if I kept the length to 26", the bull would still have an accuracy edge, and the weight wouldn't be horrible.

Your thoughts?
 
Smooth73 said:
That is a nice stick, Triceratops! Just the look alone is a major incentive for me to go with the bull barrel, plus I'll likely have it braked also. Jim recommended that based on the gun's purpose, to go with either 26" or 28" varmint or bull contour for LD accuracy. I just picked the varmint for weight reasons, but I think that if I kept the length to 26", the bull would still have an accuracy edge, and the weight wouldn't be horrible.

Your thoughts?
Click to expand...

I say that if you're planing on putting a brake on it then the contour won't matter too much. I had originally gone with the bull because I wasn't planning on a brake in the near future and wanted minimal recoil as possible w/o a brake since I was just getting into long range shooting.

Changing the bull barrel from 28" to 26" won't have THAT much of an effect on weight I don't think. and I won't say the bull will be more accurate but like a lot of people say the thick barrels heat up slower so you can shoot longer w/o cooking it.

I'd say that if its gonna be used on the bench/prone (just at the range) for the majority of the time then you'd be fine with the bull barrel, but if you put a brake on it, cut it back to 26" because at 28"+brake, my rifle JUST BARELY fits in my pelican 1750 case. I'm not sure on the weight difference between the bull and varmint but my rifle is a tank. weighs in around 16-18lbs I think. However, my buddy and I both have the same set up and we have both made a couple kneeling shots at targets around 700-900 yards. Not fun but somehow we did it.
 
That is very useful info...so if I assess this right,a 26" bull with a brake will still be plenty accurate, have longer life, but at the cost of added weight.the only question I would then ask would be is it still comfortable enough to run comps with or would that be a major nuisance?
 
Also, based on chassis choice, is it going to be a pain in the ass later if I want to go with a varmint barrel later on?
 
The 12LRP is a target action and it is a repeater. There are aftermarket 10 round mags. It takes the large shank barrels. It comes with a ground recoil lug, so you don't need an aftermarket one like you do with the cheaper actions that come with stamped recoil lugs.

I have the 12LRP in 6.5cm. Crazy accurate out of the box with 140 amax and 142 smk. They come in a HS Precision stock which is not a piece of crap. You could do worse than starting with one of those and adding to it as you want/need/afford.
 
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