How can this be? A non-free-float barrel shoots well.

[SPDSNYPR]

A friend was trying to offload a Rem 700 VTR in .308. He said it was a great shooter - that is always relative. I looked at it as maybe a hunting rifle that when I got the money together, I could cabbage the action and make into something more interesting. Well - off to the range. Strapped it into the PIG saddle, and got the Nikon scope and barrel pointed at the same place. I slowed down, and shot a 5-shot group with 168 gr BH. All one big ragged hole. It was a little spread out, but about 3/4 MOA. A second 5 shot group was 4 rounds in one small ragged hole, with one flyer "opening" it up to about 2/3 moa. WTF? This thing with the triangle barrel and stupid muzzle break can shoot. I looked - and the barrel isn't free-floated at all.

So - how can a non-free-floating production gun with a weird barrel shape (obviously a gimmick) in a crappy stock shoot so well? I thought a barrel had to be free-floated or it was going to cause problems. If it's a sub-MOA rifle as-is, will it be better if I drop it into an HS stock that floats the barrel? Or - will I anger the rifle gods if I mess with it? I honestly thought these rifles didn't have a particularly great rep. I also think the barrel looks kinda cool.

So - what gives? Does a pressure point actually help some rifles? Should I screw with it, or leave it alone? Change stocks, or just put a nicer scope on it and shoot the piss out of it?

 

[17874]

Best advice I got from an experienced gunsmith is "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". I have a 22-250 Howa that I paid $400 for at Big5 and that sucker shoots one hole groups all day long. Cheap ass stock, crappy trigger, cheap scope mounts/rings.

 

[Bp44]

The answer seems pretty straight forward to me, leave it be and shoot the twist out of it. I have seen several rifles that are sub moa that have very poor fit, having said that when a gun won't shoot I suspect the torque and look for bedding issues.

 

[flylo]

What I don't understand is all the guys that take a new untested rifle, take it apart, sell the stock,barrel,trigger without firering a shot. I wonder how many tack drivers have been torn down & spent several thousand on to once agaIn be a tack driver?

 

[Thebelly]

What I don't understand is all the guys that take a new untested rifle, take it apart, sell the stock,barrel,trigger without firering a shot. I wonder how many tack drivers have been torn down & spent several thousand on to once agaIn be a tack driver?

I think I have a reasonable answer for this.

I have an R700 SA in .243 that I am thinking about messing with. I've gotten sub-MOA performance out of it as it currently sits. However, I still want to change it. The big problem I have with it is that I want it to be a match gun and not a hunting rifle. The barrel profile says that the first coupl of shots are going to do well, but the rest of them have a pretty high chance to be thrown pretty much wherever. I want round 45 to be pretty darn close to what I see out of round 1. That probably isn't going to happen if I keep the lightweight barrel on it. That makes it an easy choice: strip it, build it, then grip it and ri it!

 

[Wheres-Waldo]

If you pull most of these factory rifles apart, they seem to be so inconsistently built in the finer details that some will inevitably shot well with the majority performing in what we are used to seeing.

Pillars are rarely concentric and installed straight, barrels may or may not be free floated, if they aren't its anyone's guess as to points of contact & repeatability of contact, etc....

Some will be shooters but Id bet if you took it apart, cleaned it and put it back together you might see a drastic drop in performance.

Just my opinion...

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I've had a 700VLS .223 for about 15 years that had a barrel pressure pad built into the factory laminated stock. After shooting it for awhile, I got the wild bug up youknowhere and Dremeled it out. My groups went to Hades. Thinking the problem was about harmonics, I did a full round of load development, but no dice; no load got it anywhere near the previous performance.

Reluctantly, I started testing the rifle with successive thicknesses of matchbook cardboard as a temp pressure pad precisely where the original pad had resided. What I learned was interesting.

Just restoring contact was not enough. The barrel had to have enough pressure to deflect it. I believe this is because a barrel's harmonic vibration can have sufficient amplitude to lift it off the pad. Until the pressure is strong enough to eliminate barrel liftoff from the pad, that pad is probably performing worse than nothing at all. The barrel demonstrated an upward POI shift that acted much like scope base slope, and the original loads shot at least as well as before that entire excursion to La-la-land.

Greg

 

[Big Z]

A dude can easily put some 3x5 notecards between his stock and bbl, to see if he needs to bed-in some forend pressure.

 

[jbell]

It just proves that all the "rules" for precision rifles are just good guide lines to start from and usually work, but they are not the only way to skin a cat...

I owned a Husqvarna Crown Grade in 270 win that was all original built in 1951. The rifle was in great shape but had been carried and hunted with a lot. The barreled action fit very tight into the stock, it was not bedded but inletted well and the barrel was not floated at all it had pressure points all over the place. The bore was decent but definitely pitted some and showing its age. That rifle had a very old 4X Weaver fine cross hair that would track spot on and hold a good zero. It would shoot Nosler 140g Ballistic Tips into 1/2 MOA 3 shot groups if you would keep the barrel cool out to 300 yards very consistently...

 

[SPDSNYPR]

I'm afraid of even taking it out of the stock. I'm sure the pressure on the barrel has to be consistent, or it seems like it would change the zero. Hell - I'll just shoot the shit out of it until something goes wrong. I'm not a big fan of the stock, but don't want to screw up a good thing.

 

[Goatman007]

On bedding rifles there are 2 schools of thought, First is to free float the entire barrel, my preference, the second is to solidly cement that sucker in the stock. I have seen it done and it works like a champ, try and change the barrel though. Stock/barrel contact is not necessarily a bad thing, just something to look at when the gun won't shoot. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

 

[Asperly Aimless]

Unless you want to build it up into something else, I would leave it alone. Run it hot and fast and see what it does. It may surprise you. I had a skinny barreled .222 that I could run hot for 8 rds with no issues, and then would start impacting an inch lower for the rest of however many rds I shot down the tube. I cut the barrel back to 18 inches, and that problem went away. Some rifles just surprise you.

 

[nfoley]

I had a Remington 788 that wasn't floated or bedded that would shoot the lights out. What's worse, no matter how hard I tried I could never get my reloads to shoot as well as factory federal hi-shoks. Used it for hunting for a lot of years, and it never let me down. Had an old leupold 3.5-10 on it with Stoney Point knob and year after year would hold zero and shoot moa (or less) out to 500 yards (never shot past that). Never shot more than 5 shot strings and in Tucson weather was always pretty mild -sure that had a lot to do with it.

 

[Graham]

http://tacticalmatches.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/14636/Re_1000_Yards_With_a_2x4_and_a

1,000 Yard Shot with a Rifle Made Out of a 2x4 | The Truth About Guns

 

[Greg Langelius *]

How 'bout this as an assembly adhesive for bonding a heat radiating/stiffening jacket to a rifle barrel?

The -40 to +150C operating temp fits right, and with this kind of thermal conductivity, it should seldom, if ever, reach that upper temp, even under sustained rapid fire.

It's amazing what one can find in a five minute search on the 'Net with the right search argument ("thermal conductive silicone sealant").

Greg

 

[29aholic]

I have an early pre-A Winchester 52 with a barrel band and full contact wood that will shoot sub 1/2 MOA at any range I have shot it at.

 

[SPDSNYPR]

Remington factory torque should be 45 lb-in, correct? Was thinking of trying it in a 700P stock I have and see if it still shoots well free-floated. If it doesn't work, I'll just throw it back in the factory stock (which I really don't care for).