Rifle Scopes Glass or rectical?

[George Az]

There are several really great scope manu's - I read about them here all the time, S & B, Nightforce, Steiner, etc. There are many scopes of what I will say are intermediate type glass with a mil dot type retical, Vortex & Bushnell come to mind. I do not currently own a mildot retical scope. I have several intermediate glass scopes, such as a Vortex Viper with their version of "BDC" or whatever hunting style reticals.

I have been offered from a friend a really nice scope, great power, manu is not important, but it would be considered "top tier" glass. But it only has a "bdc" type retical. Now I can't just sell this thing or trade it in, that would cause a problem with a buddy. If I use it no issue. I do not own a glass this nice. It would wipe out my fundage for mil retical scope.

So do you go for really good glass (and repeatablilty) and a hunting type retical or do I keep saving. I am a long way from 2K for a great scope. This would be a great scope for very little $$?

500 yards with standard cross reticle is not an issue for me. I am starting to work out some distance - 700+ for right now. The rifle can do it. 6.5 x 06.

Thanks

and thank you for pointing out my spelling error - can't fix the title.....

 

[Notso]

Reticle

 

[phillip61]

Reticle

If your buddy don't mind you using it, then use it. But keep saving your money. If after a while you decide you don't really like it give it back to your buddy and buy something you want. Sounds like you have a good opportunity to try out a top tier scope for free. Not many around here get to do that. So use it for a while and decide what you like and don't like about and when you get ready to buy your own you can make a much better decision about what you spend your money on. The for sale section here has lots of good deals on most any kind of scope you want with most any reticle you want. Let us know how it worked out for you.

 

[Thumper580]

Reticle

+1 rectical refers to your anus.

 

[DCR]

If you need or want a mill dot type retcle then you keep saving.

 

[Graham]

Glass or rectical?

+1 rectical refers to your anus.

It's rectal, not rectical, but I, too, would be concerned about combining glass with anything rectal.

 

[Notso]

Sorry, wasn't trying to be a dick with the spelling. It's just one of my pet peeve words.

I Agree with Phillip61. If its free - use it while you save up for a scope with a mil type reticle. The only downside is you will lose the practice time behind a reticle that you will want to eventually have on your gun. Don't discount the training time and experience you gain from using a mil reticle - because if used properly - it is doing lots of things for you in the shooting cycle, especially being able to make shot corrections from seeing your hits and correcting very precisely.

I personally don't like the hunting BDC reticles, because unless you shoot the exact load at the exact same MV as the manufacturer intended - its not going to be accurate. Then you will need to learn where all the BDC marks actually put your load.

But again, if its "free" - try it out. I will bet you though that you will lose interest in the glass quickly out of frustration with the non-functional reticle and you will go back to your "mid tier" scopes for day to day use. In either case, save up your pennies and get the best of both worlds - great glass and a functional reticle with good mechanics.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[Thumper580]

I know.... Just a play on words.

 

[Pinecone]

Is it a loan or a gift?

If a gift, you might be able to have the reticle changed. Many scope makers will do this for a nominal charge.

Win-Win.

 

[105gr]

^^^^winner......if its a "top shelf" scope the manufacturer can change the reticle

 

[BigJimFish]

There are several really great scope manu's - I read about them here all the time, S & B, Nightforce, Steiner, etc. There are many scopes of what I will say are intermediate type glass with a mil dot type retical, Vortex & Bushnell come to mind. I do not currently own a mildot retical scope. I have several intermediate glass scopes, such as a Vortex Viper with their version of "BDC" or whatever hunting style reticals.

I have been offered from a friend a really nice scope, great power, manu is not important, but it would be considered "top tier" glass. But it only has a "bdc" type retical. Now I can't just sell this thing or trade it in, that would cause a problem with a buddy. If I use it no issue. I do not own a glass this nice. It would wipe out my fundage for mil retical scope.

So do you go for really good glass (and repeatablilty) and a hunting type retical or do I keep saving. I am a long way from 2K for a great scope. This would be a great scope for very little $$?

500 yards with standard cross reticle is not an issue for me. I am starting to work out some distance - 700+ for right now. The rifle can do it. 6.5 x 06.

Thanks

and thank you for pointing out my spelling error - can't fix the title.....

Most BDC scopes have no provision for range finding at all and therefore, unless you only shoot known distances or sport a good laser range finder, you will have trouble making your first shots count. This is a big issue hunting and varmint shooting and can also be a problem in some competition. I think the concept is some kind of cross species Chimera from the AR world and Caliber specific 5.56mm reticles. These work on the AR, and some even range. The concept has not survived the transplant though. I would avoid all these abominations, there worse than the old mismatched Mill/MOA messes that folks tried to sell us. I've seen signs of the big guys coming around. Sooner or later they will give us what they want of have their asses beat by the new guys like Vortex.

 

[George Az]

So basically what everyone is telling me is, forget the $2000.00 scope with a bdc reticle for $500.00 and get a mil reticle. Don't worry how good the glass is because it cannot do what a mil dot style reticle can do. I don't have 2K, I have $500. It is going to take me a long time to get to $2000.00 saved up. But I guess this is why Vortex brings such a product to the masses.

I will tell my buddy thanks anyway. It would kind of suck to sell it on him. He was going to give me a deal on it because we are buddies. I know he can sell it for more. I don't have the cash to send it back to Germany and get a new Mil reticle put in it. I do have the money for a Vortex.

Thank you

 

[mjh30]

George Az, not all bdc's are the same. Provide the make, model and the bdc in the scope that your friend is going to provide and we can start giving educated opinions from there, what type of turrets does it have. DFOOSKING's reply is an excellent example of this, heres a posting on the Hide on how to range using a duplex reticle, yes it can be done but honestly I find mildots easier. Vortex has there BDC set up for ranging also I believe. Get the loaner scope, get a decent used LRF and go shooting.

 

[flylo]

I would use it until I saved up for & decided what I really wanted then offer it back to your friend for what he gave it to you for, free or cheap. If he doesn't want it back pay it forward by giving it, loaning it or selling it cheap to a new or young shooter/hunter who can't afford one.

 

[Notso]

So basically what everyone is telling me is, forget the $2000.00 scope with a bdc reticle for $500.00 and get a mil reticle. Don't worry how good the glass is because it cannot do what a mil dot style reticle can do. I don't have 2K, I have $500. It is going to take me a long time to get to $2000.00 saved up. But I guess this is why Vortex brings such a product to the masses.

I will tell my buddy thanks anyway. It would kind of suck to sell it on him. He was going to give me a deal on it because we are buddies. I know he can sell it for more. I don't have the cash to send it back to Germany and get a new Mil reticle put in it. I do have the money for a Vortex.

Thank you

For $500, you're not going to get exceptional glass. So I would go for a scope that functions correctly. IOW, the reticle moves the correct amount when you move the turrets in windage and elevation. And then returns to zero.

The Vortex should be ok. I'm not familiar with the lower end Vortex scopes, but the Viper Vortex 6.5x20 mil dot is probably decent for $479. For a little bit more ($700) the reviews on the SWFA SS 3-15x42 should be good and that gets you into a FFP (First focal plane) scope.

Also take a look at the:
- Vortex Viper 4-16x PST (Second Focal Plan, SFP) - $700
Weaver Tactical 4-20x50 (FFP) - $700
- Sightron III 3.5-10x44 (SFP) - $650

One scope I have tried that was surprisingly good for the money packed with features for an entry level scope was the Falcon Menace 5.5-25x. It is an FFP scope, with nice reticles, decent glass and MRAD knobs. I think it is a great entry level scope for someone on a budget. Mine seemed to work fine before I upgraded to a higher end scope. For $500, it was really hard to beat as a starter tactical scope.

If you can save your pennies and wait a bit - I think the best <$1000 on the market is the Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 in FFP. It is all the scope you'll ever want for a LONG time. I had one for a while until I sold it to a buddy to help him out. But it was a solid scope with decent glass on par with some costing a fair amount more.

Final thing is: stay away from Millett, NCStar, Barska, and BSA - all junk IMHO.

 

[Crosshair]

I guess i'm in the minority here, I'd choose a 2k scope with excellent glass and BDC reticle as opposed to a $500 scope with mil-dot.

I dial elevation anyway, and have a Leica 1000 rangefinder. As others mentioned, mapping out a BDC reticle is not hard. They are way more tunable than guys give them credit for. With varying the zeroing distance and magnification, the hashes can be brought fairly close to a logically incremental breakdown. A dope card can be made with a little planning to be accurate at several pre-determined atmospheric conditions.

The easiest way to play with mapping out the reticle is on an app like iStrelok or other ballistic calc that has lots of brands of reticles stored. Then input your muzzle velocity and BC and start playing with zero distance. Then mess with magnification until you get the hashes where you want them. Then, make up a few range cards with the various temperatures and baros that you are likely to encounter. You can tweak things a lot just by varying the magnification by .25x in either direction. Several good bcd reticles out there have 1 mil dot on each side of the horizontal crosshair (subtending a true 1 mil at full magnification) which is very useful for holding wind (such as my vortex viper's). Bdc's are very fast when you have them set up right and are my preference on AR rifles.

You maximize the build quality and internals also with the high end scope, not just glass quality, but overall quality as well.

 

[Graham]

Glass or rectical?

As others mentioned, mapping out a BDC reticle is not hard. They are way more tunable than guys give them credit for. With varying the zeroing distance and magnification, the hashes can be brought fairly close to a logically incremental breakdown. A dope card can be made with a little planning to be accurate at several pre-determined atmospheric conditions.

The easiest way to play with mapping out the reticle is on an app like iStrelok or other ballistic calc that has lots of brands of reticles stored. Then input your muzzle velocity and BC and start playing with zero distance. Then mess with magnification until you get the hashes where you want them. Then, make up a few range cards with the various temperatures and baros that you are likely to encounter. You can tweak things a lot just by varying the magnification by .25x in either direction. Several good bcd reticles out there have 1 mil dot on each side of the horizontal crosshair (subtending a true 1 mil at full magnification) which is very useful for holding wind (such as my vortex viper's). Bdc's are very fast when you have them set up right and are my preference on AR rifles

Or, you can learn to use Mils or MOA and not have to do all that fiddling to get an inaccurate result.