I know it's TV but watching Doomsday Preppers more than once they have shown guys with Det Cord ,C4 , claymores , grenades etc Now how are they aquiring these items ? Licenses ? Permits ? ATF forms ??? What gives on this ?
- Thread starter Twisted .308
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My guess is that they are fake, much like most of the "reality TV"
Either fake, or supplied by the film crew effects people, or evidence in an upcoming federal trial.
Show earlier had ex nam Vet taking " novelty claymores " and filling with #2 shot and epoxy he then took a brick of C4 and pulled offa chunk and lined the backside there fore creating a live claymore , he had the clacker and caps and blew one up " testing " his handy work . Bastard probably had cases of C4 stacked in his bunker along with several boxes of blasting caps , he also had grenades and homemade IED's
do you have a link to a video clip?? some explosives are obtainable as long as the laws are fallowed BUT! I don't think that includes military grade C4, grenades, and claymores..
On TV just about an hour ago Doomsday Preppers national geographic station
Most likely they have an explosives license through the BATFE. The license isn't overly difficult to get, however, it does provide the BATFE with the capability to search your property at any time without notice, as well as a whole slew of other things that can make your life difficult and disabuse a regular person who just wants to make stuff go boom from getting one. Or, as stated above, it's "reality TV"...IOW, the producers gets to make reality look like whatever they want it to be. That can include things like providing explosives and using them under the license owned by the effects company just to make it look like these prepper guys all have hand grenades, land mines, flash bangs, etc...
--Wintermute
--Wintermute
Hard to say. They probably either have an explosive license or have then illegally. I know of a few older vets....Nam era vets that have a few "Toys" in there collection.
The last time I had a civilian blaster's license was before 9/11 so I'm unsure of what new regulations came about since then, but C4 (commercial), TNT, etc could be possessed with the appropriate permits which are issued on the State level. Some states only required a Driver's license (farmers blowing stumps, grave diggers blasting through rocky ground, etc) In order to store them you get into Federal regulations and further permits. Claymores and Hand Grenades are "destructive devices" under Federal statute and are NFA items like SBRs, Machineguns, etc.
When I was on the PD's Bomb Squad (and also serving on an ATF Task Force) and we'd recover diverted military ordnance, the ATF would have an Explosives Enforcement Officer (those guys were pretty much ALL retired Mil EOD who were hired in as true subject matter experts) compile a report verifying that the item was in fact classified as a destructive device. Once that determination was made, a check was run through NFA to determine if the person had registered the item. If not, then the prosecution began.
Odd bit of trivia I found out while going through the paperwork process of shortening the barrel of a Dept-owned Stryker 12 (P.0.S.), the Stryker/Streetsweeper style shotguns are considered to be "destructive devices", NOT shotguns, so you if you legally posses a Stryker/Streetsweeper, you could SBS it with no issue.
When I was on the PD's Bomb Squad (and also serving on an ATF Task Force) and we'd recover diverted military ordnance, the ATF would have an Explosives Enforcement Officer (those guys were pretty much ALL retired Mil EOD who were hired in as true subject matter experts) compile a report verifying that the item was in fact classified as a destructive device. Once that determination was made, a check was run through NFA to determine if the person had registered the item. If not, then the prosecution began.
Odd bit of trivia I found out while going through the paperwork process of shortening the barrel of a Dept-owned Stryker 12 (P.0.S.), the Stryker/Streetsweeper style shotguns are considered to be "destructive devices", NOT shotguns, so you if you legally posses a Stryker/Streetsweeper, you could SBS it with no issue.
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Hahahahaha nope, never did. However, whenever we'd recover pipe bombs, molotovs, etc. if we wanted to prosecute Federally, we still had to go through the whole process just to satisfy the statutes. IIRC there were some ancillary charges like "manufacturing" in addition to "possessing" when we were able to prove that the guy was making them.
A lot of what we dealt with were WWII bring-backs where granddad would pass away and someone would come across a foot locker full of old WWII ordnance, or they'd want us to take a look at the "paperweight" on grandpa's desk and it would turn out to be a functional Japanese hand grenade or something.
We even found a live Civil War canister shell in an antique shop. We never really messed with prosecutions on any of those.
The "mood" of the enforcing agency can't be overstated:
We had a bubba who built a "golf ball launcher" (cannon) and screwed up by using cast pipe as his chamber. He further erred by using PVC pipe bombs in the chamber to launch said golf balls.
When he arrived at the emergency room with the inevitable blast injuries the local agency got involved, who went to his house and found his "bomb-making lab".
We talked to him and he explained that he'd started out using PVC pipe with ONE end-cap and black powder as a charge (legal). He wasn't happy with his velocity so he decided to cap the other end (illegal) to build the pressure. My partner and I successfully argued against Federal prosecution on the "destructive devices" because he had no intent to use them as such. The FBI was tripping over itself wanting a "domestic terrorism" case, but the cooler heads at ATF prevailed and I'm not sure what ever happened on the local side of it because it wasn't my P.D.'s jurisdiction.
Another ATF agent I worked with got stuck with a case where a Natl Guard unit smuggled home about 30 AK's from Iraq at the end of their tour. THIRTY unregistered machine guns which the guys had put their names on to collect and take home once they were unpacked. He went to the center on a drill weekend and explained that if all the weapons were turned in to the unit command, the unit could surrender them to him "anonymously" and the guys would avoid prosecution (but were on their own with the UCMJ). He had a "headline" case if he wanted it but chose not to prosecute returning vets and kept it out of the courts.
So if you make that call to NFA, I want details of how that conversation goes
I currently hold a BATFE explosives license. I can buy any explosive that is sold (this includes "military" C-4). BTW, "military" C-4 is just C-4.
As mentioned, the other devices (if real) fall into the DD/NFA category, so paperwork and fees if they are keeping things legal.
As mentioned, the other devices (if real) fall into the DD/NFA category, so paperwork and fees if they are keeping things legal.
When the OP said "military C4" I took him to mean the M112 1.25lb Military Demo blocks, which I only ever saw in the military or as "gifts" from the military to civilian agencies or other lawful users. The vast majority of C4 I saw on the civvie side was the bulk unformed C4.
I was instructed that the "military" C4 was slightly de-sensitized for safety (bullet strikes, etc), which was why we used the "super 8" or "engineer special" caps to ensure proper detonation. The guidance was issued that it wasn't recommended to use civilian #8s on military ordnance. Now in the absence of the super 8s, we blew up a lot of military stuff with a regular #8, but if several people told me the same thing about the caps I figured there may be something to it.
It certainly wouldn't be the first time I was given bad information, and if I inadvertently passed it along I apologize. I didn't take the question to be about the C4 nomenclature, but rather whether the preppers had legally obtained the U.S. Military C4 blocks.
No biggie, I just mentioned it by way of clarification.
You're right that C4 is pretty insensitive, and stronger caps are recommended. The C4 blocks are pressed but the composition is the same, and they can be purchased pressed on the civilian side as well.
You're right that C4 is pretty insensitive, and stronger caps are recommended. The C4 blocks are pressed but the composition is the same, and they can be purchased pressed on the civilian side as well.
I'm really small time, but I do a variety of odd projects with explosives.
ANFO isn't bullet sensitive (usually isn't even blasting cap sensitive). I doubt that adding the aluminum powder to AN already mixed with the FO would change that, but I've never tried.
ANFO isn't bullet sensitive (usually isn't even blasting cap sensitive). I doubt that adding the aluminum powder to AN already mixed with the FO would change that, but I've never tried.
I'm with you, if anything my guess is that it would DE-sensitize the binary mixture of Tannerite.
[MENTION=63094]MtnCreek[/MENTION], ANFO is a blasting agent requiring a booster for reliable initiation, so I don't think you'd be gaining anything, but hell, give it a shot and let us know what happens. I played around a lot with different mixtures of KinePak binary explosives and got some fun results (well fun to us, not fun to the Fire Dept). It always amazed us how grumpy the F.D. guys could be when we had an "experiment" go right/wrong. We'd be cackling like little girls watching shit burn and high-fiving over the latest "success" and we'd get some really dirty looks from our public safety brothers
Regular ammonium nitrate isn't bullet sensitive or even cap sensitive as is mentioned above. A booster of usually PETN or TNT, or a stick of cap sensitive dynamite is needed to detonate ANFO and get it going. The Kinepouch and Kinestick on the other hand are Ammonium nitrate that has been ground to a fine powder and is then sensitized with Nitromethane (the red stuff you mix with it). Nitromethane (Race Car Fuel) will detonate high order, so when mixed with the Ammonium Nitrate it makes the mixture cap sensitive. Most likely still not bullet sensitive. Supposedly, the explosive used in the Oklahoma City bombing was Ammonium Nitrate and a Nitromethane mix. Adding aluminum powder to the mix doesn't make it any more sensitive. The aluminum is added to use up the extra oxygen that is liberated during the detonation process. Aluminum oxidizes violently and releases huge amounts of energy, so adding it increases the blast and heat effects of the detonation and increases the brisance (cracking power) of the mixture. Explosives are rated by the power of their detonation (energy released or work done) TNT is the baseline with a value of 1. Dynamite and ammonium nitrate come in around .3 or a 1/3 the strength of TNT and C4 is rated around 1.34 or a 1/3 stronger than TNT. Part of the energy rating of explosives is due to the velocity of detonation. C4 and Det Cord have very high velocities, so they are good for cutting steel, shattering concrete obstacles etc. but the high velocity isn't good for mining. Ammonium Nitrate is very slow and is good for mining to heave the earth and rock as long as the holes for the ANFO are dry. AN will not work if it gets wet. C4, TNT, and gelatin dynamite are excellent for use under water, as they don't absorb moisture.
Tag for later. Relatively new to the biz.
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I don't know if Dogtown still plays in this field , but or company works on many " reality " tv shows . Ghost hunters , storage wars ......... Our SPFX techs bring the knowledge and permits to the game .
Greg
