14.5" pinned bolt gun?

[guncrazy72]

Ive looked and could not find any info on this for a bolt gun. Ive rain ARs as my primary guns for years but I think I may swap now to a bolt gun and pistol since it works better for me. Here is my plan:

14.5" pinned Brux barrel with a SF break in 308
AI 2.0. AI AX or a Manners folding chassis
Badger DBM
Glass would be a 3.5-15 NXS

This would make for my back pack gun/ do anything gun. With it being a folder it would actually be smaller than my current ARs Im running. heavier but smaller. Has anyone ran a 14.5" 308 bolt gun before? Im sure someone has but I cant seem to find info on it. This would be mainly a 600 yard and under gun. I barely have anywhere to shoot farther than that.

 

[Pritch]

you will find with having such a short barrel the powder won't have all burnt and will not give you the velocity you will need/want for 600 not bad for 200 but it will be trying i use a 20 inch barrel on my 308 and am in need of a replacement when the funds are available barrel wise for it to be more useful at longer ranges

it is doable by all means but to run a short barrel you will find shortfalls (excuse the pun)

 

[nchunter243]

It will be heavy, why a folder for a back pack gun? if its strapped to the pack I'ld rather save the weight and do a fixed stock but that is me and this is your rifle. Only real advice I can give you is that one gun can not fill all roles. You can have a back pack gun or a tactical rifle but trying both will leave you with a gun that is not fun to carry or a gun that makes hitting targets past 500 to tough to enjoy. PS muzzle blast at 14.5 with a brake will be interesting

 

[MoBoost]

The Truth About Barrel Length, Muzzle Velocity and Accuracy | The Truth About Guns

 

[nchunter243]

Using .475 bc and 2390 fps per MoBoost article
Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 2396.0 2.144 2141.2 0.000 0.0 ***
100 -0.0 -0.0 0.9 0.8 2218.7 1.985 1835.9 0.130 0.0 0.0
200 -5.6 -2.7 3.6 1.7 2048.8 1.833 1565.6 0.271 0.0 0.0
300 -19.5 -6.2 8.4 2.7 1886.8 1.688 1327.8 0.423 0.0 0.0
400 -43.1 -10.3 15.6 3.7 1733.5 1.551 1120.8 0.589 0.0 0.0
500 -78.4 -15.0 25.4 4.8 1589.9 1.423 942.8 0.770 0.0 0.0
600 -127.4 -20.3 38.0 6.1 1457.6 1.304 792.4 0.967 0.0 0.0
700 -192.9 -26.3 53.8 7.3 1338.2 1.197 667.9 1.182 0.0 0.0
800 -277.7 -33.2 72.9 8.7 1234.1 1.104 568.1 1.416 0.0 0.0
900 -385.5 -40.9 95.3 10.1 1147.5 1.027 491.1 1.668 0.0 0.0
1000 -519.6 -49.6 120.8 11.5 1078.6 0.965 433.9 1.939 0.0 0.0

 

[RyanScott]

That's a 15 pound gun.

Get a backpack that handles a longer gun and use a hunting style stock, 18" barrel and no brake--or a small hunting style one. If you need a can, use Ti. Lightweight scope and mounting accessories, AW mags on a TAC30AW action.

Done and done.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Have an old Remington 600 chopped to 16" in .308 topped with a 2.5X8 Leupold, never had issue to 600yd. Kicks like a mule, but when it's time to shoot (other than bench), the recoil is never remembered. Lite as a feather, and has got the job done sense I've owned it from 1969 to date.

 

[SWRichmond]

The Truth About Barrel Length, Muzzle Velocity and Accuracy | The Truth About Guns

Mo,

Read the correct comments following the post you linked regarding the scientific validity of the experiment. The experiment is not valid.

I also got a smile from this statement in the article, regarding the lower velocities from a shorter barrel: "Increased drift is not the end of the world, though, and if measured properly, can be overcome with ease."

The article's author is invited to show me his F Class High Master card, earned in long range FT/R. Perhaps, rather, he can show me the list of names of F Class nationals and world cup winners who used short barrels.

Or not.

 

[MoBoost]

Mo,

Read the correct comments following the post you linked regarding the scientific validity of the experiment. The experiment is not valid.

I also got a smile from this statement in the article, regarding the lower velocities from a shorter barrel: "Increased drift is not the end of the world, though, and if measured properly, can be overcome with ease."

The article's author is invited to show me his F Class High Master card, earned in long range FT/R. Perhaps, rather, he can show me the list of names of F Class nationals and world cup winners who used short barrels.

Or not.

I don't agree with reasoning and conclusions of the article myself, but it doesn't take away from a solid bit of actual data that is available for your own interpretation.

 

[Frankr]

OP

Just my. 02. While my requirements will be different than yours i am currently working on getting a .223 cut to 14.5" with permanently attached flash hider and i have a tikka t3 in 308 at the gun smiths getting cut to 16.5".

I am hoping the handiness out weighs the loss of velocity. There is a thread around here about 16-18" rifles. It might have what you are looking for.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

 

[alpha6164]

If you reload you can use the right powder to get pretty decent speed. I have a 14.5" POF 308 and when I reload with Varget 44.5gr which is about limit I get 2380 ft/sec but when I use Hodgon CFE223 I get 2550 ft/sec. That is a huge difference in velocity just with powder change.

 

[Walsh]

What grain bullet are you using alpha?

 

[Pusher591]

That's a 15 pound gun.

Get a backpack that handles a longer gun and use a hunting style stock, 18" barrel and no brake--or a small hunting style one. If you need a can, use Ti. Lightweight scope and mounting accessories, AW mags on a TAC30AW action.

Done and done.

Sorry, there is NO WAY the OP's gun is a 15 pound gun. My 21" Surgeon 591/Surgeon DBM with M24 profiled barrel in a McMillan a3-5/sniper fill and 3-15 NXS was 14.8 pounds. My current Deviant action gun with a 23" M24 profiled barrel sitting in a manners folder and Leupold Mk6 is only 16lbs even.

My guess is probably 12-13lbs with scope

 

[RyanScott]

OK, so I was 10% off.

My bet is 10 miles in he's wondering if the chassis is worth it. I'm a huge fan of a chassis but for this I wouldn't...

 

[Kamkaze]

you will find with having such a short barrel the powder won't have all burnt and will not give you the velocity you will need/want for 600 not bad for 200 but it will be trying i use a 20 inch barrel on my 308 and am in need of a replacement when the funds are available barrel wise for it to be more useful at longer ranges

it is doable by all means but to run a short barrel you will find shortfalls (excuse the pun)

Dmack is consistantly ringing a 12" plate at 850 yds with his 14.5" .308 AR with m118lR and fgmm

 

[Kamkaze]

OK, so I was 10% off.

My bet is 10 miles in he's wondering if the chassis is worth it. I'm a huge fan of a chassis but for this I wouldn't...

If he put it in a mcree compact ar folder I bet he could come close to a sub 10lb gun that's very compact and very capable at 600 yards (his intended max distance)

 

[alpha6164]

What grain bullet are you using alpha?

175g smk

 

[Walsh]

Any excess pressure? Seems hot.....

 

[elephantrider]

That TTAG article is not very scientific analysis of barrel length results. I do not read TTAG very often, but when I do I find a real lack of technical knowledge from it's contributors. In other words don't trust TTAG blog.

If you reload you can use the right powder to get pretty decent speed. I have a 14.5" POF 308 and when I reload with Varget 44.5gr which is about limit I get 2380 ft/sec but when I use Hodgon CFE223 I get 2550 ft/sec. That is a huge difference in velocity just with powder change.

I would say that 2550 fps (175gr SMK) is an anomaly in a 14.5" barreled .308 Win. Not many powders can accomplish that, CFE223 is probably one of the few fast burning powders that can pull that off. The 2380fps with Varget is more the norm. Also, that load with CFE223 is on the higher end of the pressure curve and how temperature sensitive is it?

To the OP, I would recommend getting a barrel length as close to 20" as possible for a short barreled bolt gun. Yes, you can go down to 14.5", but it will not be very fun to shoot with that brake. I'm sure several will disagree, but I would keep it closer to 20". Light weight gun with a short barrel will not be fun.

Look at a different chassis if weight is a concern. The AIAX is one of the heavier chassis out there. I am using the Rock Solid. It isn't a folder, but it is one of the lighter chassis stocks out there. There are a bunch of good choices out there.

 

[alpha6164]

That TTAG article is not very scientific analysis of barrel length results. I do not read TTAG very often, but when I do I find a real lack of technical knowledge from it's contributors. In other words don't trust TTAG blog.



I would say that 2550 fps (175gr SMK) is an anomaly in a 14.5" barreled .308 Win. Not many powders can accomplish that, CFE223 is probably one of the few fast burning powders that can pull that off. The 2380fps with Varget is more the norm. Also, that load with CFE223 is on the higher end of the pressure curve and how temperature sensitive is it?

I agree. That is why i said if you reload with the right powder. I used to load with Varget and have completely switched to CFE223. It meters like butter, gives me 100-125ft/sec faster velocity and is just as accurate. I have not seen any pressure issues with temp and have shot the same load in 100deg Florida weather.

 

[Pusher591]

OK, so I was 10% off.

My bet is 10 miles in he's wondering if the chassis is worth it. I'm a huge fan of a chassis but for this I wouldn't...

I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to call you out. That 10% is significant though, 1-2 pounds is very significant. I love my new Deviant folder but my old Surgeon, while only a little over a pound lighter, it was obvious it was lighter and a little easier to shoot offhand.

 

[Rprecision]

Sounds like a accurate 14.5" AR-15 with a side folding stock may do the trick. 8541 did a review on one, look it up.

Sometimes the best tool for the job is the one you choose in the first place.

I cant think of anything more handy, hell optic up your AR, new more accurate barrel and you will still be money and weight ahead