Rifle Scopes Need a scope/rings for my .22lr trainer.

[Djstorm100]

Hey, after running carbines (AR's) for a long time I've got the itch for more precisie shooting. On the way from NY (Fiance family lives up there) finally found me a Savage FV-SR. I've been looking for about 2 months. Anyway order stop/bottom metal/ trigger guard. Reason I went wih the .22 was to see if I really would like it vs spending the money for .308 setup or something of that nature. Plus I have alot of .22lr at the house.

My range at home extends out to 200 yards. I'm thinking I would need at least 20MOA rail and 25 MOA rail if I wanted to go to 300. If I use a 25 MOA rail I do not think I could zero at 50 but have to zero at 75-100?


I've been looking at the Mueller APT. Read great reviews on this one and it doesn't break the bank for someone getting in to this.
Amazon.com: Mueller APT Tactical Rifle Scope, Black, 4.5-14 x 40mm: Sports & Outdoors

What height rings would I need with the bell? Is there a better scope for a little more money (say for $50.00 extra?). I don't like the fact Mueller has Mil/MOA but it does have 75 MOA adjustment if I'm not mistaking.

 

[Crosshair]

I don't have experience with Mueller, I have heard mostly positive things about them for their price though.

I would say if you are in fact going to use it to train with, you probably aren't going to be putting a mil/moa scope on a full power rifle down the road. You ought to train with the system you plan on using, IMO and you're either going to want a moa/moa or mil/mil. And also, tracking is an important factor on a long range .22 as you will be dialing way up and down with its rainbow trajectory. I'd recommend spending more to get a more useful optic in the end. At bare minimum, my recommendation would be the Primary Arms mil/mil FFP 4-14x https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary-Arms-4-14X44-FFP-Scope-p/pa4-14xffp.htm It has an advertised 60 moa of elevation.

Midwayusa has a similar version BSA that gets great marks for its price and has an advertised 90 moa of elevation. If you could wring out yet a little more money for a SWFA SS in 6x, 10x, or 12x would be best, that's what would get my money. Way better resale value and you know tracking is spot on. It could also live permanently on a full power rifle later. Over 100moa of elevation!

You'll like the little Savage, great rifle.

 

[Djstorm100]

I don't have experience with Mueller, I have heard mostly positive things about them for their price though.

I would say if you are in fact going to use it to train with, you probably aren't going to be putting a mil/moa scope on a full power rifle down the road. You ought to train with the system you plan on using, IMO and you're either going to want a moa/moa or mil/mil. And also, tracking is an important factor on a long range .22 as you will be dialing way up and down with its rainbow trajectory. I'd recommend spending more to get a more useful optic in the end. At bare minimum, my recommendation would be the Primary Arms mil/mil FFP 4-14x https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary-Arms-4-14X44-FFP-Scope-p/pa4-14xffp.htm It has an advertised 60 moa of elevation.

Midwayusa has a similar version BSA that gets great marks for its price and has an advertised 90 moa of elevation. If you could wring out yet a little more money for a SWFA SS in 6x, 10x, or 12x would be best, that's what would get my money. Way better resale value and you know tracking is spot on. It could also live permanently on a full power rifle later. Over 100moa of elevation!

You'll like the little Savage, great rifle.

PA Scope saids 33MOA adjustment.. unless that means 33 UP and 33 Down for total of 66MOA adjustment.

44 Obj. Bell would need med rings? 40 is low.

Really trying to spend 225-250 or less with a adj. power mag. (atleast 14 max mag)

 

[Crosshair]

Actually, I misquoted the elevation on the Primary Arms. Their website used to say 60 moa of total travel, it has since been updated to the correct 33 Mils of elevation. That is over 113 moa of total travel. So, after zero you'd have around 55 moa of up left, add a 20 moa rail if you want for 75 moa (ballpark) of up! That is way way out there for a .22

I'd probably go with medium rings, but it wouldn't surprise me if lows cleared fine.

 

[Djstorm100]

How far will 75 moa get with normal velocity .22? Max I would go for right now is 200 then 300. But would like to go from 25-300 yards if possible.


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[Crosshair]

My calc shows 53.45 moa to 425 yards. This is based on CCI Velocitors at 1435 fps and BC of .132 and 100 yard zero.
I've never attempted that long of a shot with a .22, but it would be fun to try. Wind would be the hardest part.

Distance, yards Bullet speed, f/s Vert. correction, inch Vert. correction, MOA
25.0 1312.0 -0.05 -0.20
50.0 1225.4 -1.54 -2.95
75.0 1152.6 -1.59 -2.02
100.0 1092.5 0.00 0.00
125.0 1043.3 3.40 2.60
150.0 1002.6 8.77 5.58
175.0 967.8 16.24 8.86
200.0 937.0 26.01 12.42
225.0 909.4 38.15 16.19
250.0 883.9 52.75 20.15
275.0 860.2 70.07 24.33
300.0 838.3 90.23 28.72
325.0 817.3 113.30 33.29
350.0 797.2 139.36 38.02
375.0 778.2 168.59 42.93
400.0 759.8 201.41 48.08
425.0 742.1 237.90 53.45
450.0 725.4 278.06 59.00
475.0 708.7 321.92 64.71
500.0 692.9 369.61 70.58
525.0 677.2 421.75 76.70
550.0 662.1 478.66 83.09
575.0 647.3 540.42 89.73
600.0 632.9 607.05 96.59

 

[firecaptain]

I have a Mueller 8-32X44 and have had good luck on it for a 22 scope.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

You will need 26-28 MOA to get to 200yds, with most match ammo. You will be disapointed in the performance of high velocity offerings, they give you no advantage in the long range 22lr game. I reccomend a 20-25 MOA rail with any scope you use. This should keep your maximum travel near the middle of elevation travel and give you more windage. I have seen lots of guys try to shoot without a canted rail and often end up losing windage travel at longer distances, which can also affect elevation travel. I ran a Mk4 16X for years with a canted rail. Avoid the cheaper "bargain" scopes. If you are serious about using this as a trainer why wouldn't you use an equal value/performance scope on your trainer? I run the same kind of scopes on my trainer as I would on my centerfire.
"It's just a 22" is no excuse to go cheap on glass.
I HAVE fired many thousands of rounds of 22lr at 200M and beyond. Been shooting this match for 4 years: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...al-steel-challenge-final-2013-results-up.html

 

[Djstorm100]

Need a scope/rings for my .22lr trainer.

Thanks for the input guys!

As of right now I'm just getting in to it to see if I really like it so I don't want to spend top dollar unless I know I'm going to stick with it.

Most of my bulk is standard cci rounds with a few hundred being cci match and federal match. I would think a faster round would go farther vs normal/ lighter round in terms of velocity.


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[Djstorm100]

Need a scope/rings for my .22lr trainer.

Double post

 

[armorpl8chikn]

I would think a faster round would go farther vs normal/ lighter round in terms of velocity.


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How far or fast something goes is rather moot if it lacks consistency and accuracy.

 

[Pinecone]

Faster round is typically a lighter bullet, so lower BC, so sheds that extra velocity faster.

TANSTAAFL

I have heard good things about the Primary Arms and Mueller.

I got the Midway special BSA 4-14x Tactical and it works well. At $250, I am happy. I have heard it is actually a Falcon scope, which may be why it gets much higher marks than most BSA scopes.

 

[Djstorm100]

Are falcon scopes any good? Though I read they weren't highly regarded as far as quality goes?

 

[Crosshair]

The Falcon, BSA, and Primary Arms are all very equivalent. PA is the cheapest and therefore probably highest value. They are surprisingly good and useful for the $200-$300ish price. They are in no way competitive to the $600 and up price point, there are some amazing optics starting in that range. Realistic expectations

If your budget is hard and fast at under $300ish, the 3 cheap FFP's mentioned or a fixed SS is the way to go.

 

[Djstorm100]

You will need 26-28 MOA to get to 200yds, with most match ammo. You will be disapointed in the performance of high velocity offerings, they give you no advantage in the long range 22lr game. I reccomend a 20-25 MOA rail with any scope you use. This should keep your maximum travel near the middle of elevation travel and give you more windage. I have seen lots of guys try to shoot without a canted rail and often end up losing windage travel at longer distances, which can also affect elevation travel. I ran a Mk4 16X for years with a canted rail. Avoid the cheaper "bargain" scopes. If you are serious about using this as a trainer why wouldn't you use an equal value/performance scope on your trainer? I run the same kind of scopes on my trainer as I would on my centerfire.
"It's just a 22" is no excuse to go cheap on glass.
I HAVE fired many thousands of rounds of 22lr at 200M and beyond. Been shooting this match for 4 years: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...al-steel-challenge-final-2013-results-up.html

I was reading through this post again and you mention " I reccomend a 20-25 MOA rail with any scope you use. This should keep your maximum travel near the middle of elevation travel and give you more windage." I thought having a MOA rail would keep my travel near the middle elevation but no effect windage. Since windage is left and right, the scope rail only effects up and down?

Really showing my true green colors lol. I went with a Mueller APT or thinking atleast. Cost is low and it works, yes it's not mid grade and etc. but if I really fall in low with this part of the sport all the better to upgrade.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Yes I meant exactly what I said, windage. Lots of folks don't know about it. You are dealing with a round tube not a square one. If you are the top of elevation travel your windage can't travel far before something binds up with the tube. If you have a lot of windage dialed in, it effects elevation in the same way. If your rail is dead nuts true with the bore axis then you might not even need a rail with a scope that has a moderate amount of elevation.
My point is this. I have seen so many guys, fart around with the minimum and it only cause headaches. Shimming and trying to get "juuuust a little more" is not a position you want to be in, it rarely ends in success. Its cheaper and easier to do something right the first time.
The SWFA SS as others have said is a great choice. I prefer a fixed power. I have never seen more than a couple of Muellers so I have no real frame of reference on them.