Please advise: another very first hand load workup

[datguy]

I'm posting this thread in hopes to get some feedback from those more experienced than I am about hand loading. I have found that my FN SPR A1A really seems to like Federal Gold Medal Match Sierra 168 gr HPBT ammo. I get consistent .5 MOA groups with this factory ammo. Well, I drank the koolaid and now I want to see what I can accomplish and learn by rolling my own rounds for the rifle.

Here is what I have DONE thus far.. I have five reloading books currently. I have read the instruction sections of each of them. I see why people suggest having more than one reference. I have read a lot of online information on loading and loading .308. I have read the stickies in this section here on the Hide.

I have put together a solid reloading bench with a good set of equipment for a beginner, **I think**.

My starting goal was to try to duplicate the factory load that my rifle seems to like. This includes putting together a safe round that fires. I did six sets of four rounds at different powder loads for my first trip to the range. They are once fired Federal brass from the above mentioned factory loads. I tumbled, cleaned primer pockets, slight chamfer/debur on the brass. My case lengths were 2.005 +/- .002.

I used Federal 210M primers, varget powder and Sierra 168gr HPBT with powder loads of 40.5, 41.0, 41.5, 41.7, 41.9 and 42.1.

I took my first ever produced twenty-four rounds to the range today with my newly purchased Chrony Alpha in hopes to get an idea of velocity. Needless to say, I didn't get the Chrony setup correctly. So, my numbers were all crap. As I was leaving I got some good info on how to get better results from the Chrony.

All six of the loads were grouping four shots under .75" at 100 yards. The 42.1 stacked 3 in one hole and the fourth was adjacent to it. I was shooting off a bench with an Atlas bipod and a sandbag in the rear. I'm no expert marksman. The SPR makes me look pretty good.

So, that was my first trip out. I am going back to the range with a friend tomorrow. I'm going to take my .17HMR to help figure out the Chrony before i shoot my .308 hand loads so I can hopefully get some data.

I was thinking of starting at 41.9 powder load and stepping up in .2 grain increments to 43.0 for tomorrows outing. I will also, hopefully, get a good read on the factory load that I am getting good results with.

I appreciate any input, advice, etc anyone is willing to share. This is easily one of the most fun things I have ever done.

My current goal is to work up a good load using this bullet and then shoot a few hundred of them, making small adjustments as I need/learn to see what I can do.

 

[Griffin4590]

Re: Please advise: another very first hand load workup

welcome to the wonderful world of reloading!
keep in mind this is my system for doing things and everyone has their own. You will find things that work for you and develope your own system. I'll outline what i did to work up a 168gn Amax load.
I loaded 5rounds each at 43, 43.5, 44, 44.5, and 45gn then I loaded 5 rounds each at 45.2, 45.4, and so on up to the 46gn max (of course checking for signs of over pressure as I go)
With in these loads you should find some to be more accurate then others. For me 44.5 shot really well so I loaded up 10 each 44.3 and 44.7 and tested those untill I found my OCW. Once thats done I start playing with COL but that's another topic
Hope this helped

 

[datguy]

Re: Please advise: another very first hand load workup

Thanks a lot for the info!

I spent a few hours working up my second set of rounds to try out. My Sierra book says max load is 43.6. The label on my Varget suggests 46.0. I stepped up to 44.2 in this set of rounds.

I need a couple trinkets to help me measure the chamber of my rifle. Ordering this week. I also need to get a good set of dies. I have RCBS FL and Neck Sizing dies and am already over them. I am leaning toward the Redding Competition 3 die set with bushing style neck sizing. I'll continue to work with what I have until I have the cash to get more advanced with the measuring and sizing of the brass.

I'm getting a hell of a kick out of loading my own rounds!

The brass I am using is already fire formed from firing the factory loads. Once I learn a little more, I'll probably buy some new, nice brass.

I was able to try my second round of hand loads. At 43.7gr I saw a small amount of change in the case around the primer pockets. I don't know the correct term. But the brass flowed just a little bit around the primer pocket. I tried one of the 44.2gr and it also showed the same deformation. I stopped with the one 44.2gr.

I'm still getting the hang of using my Chrony chronograph. Which means I didn't get good readings on all of my shots today. A few lessons learned on that front. I need to purchase a sled.

I appreciate the input. It helps a lot when you don't know anyone that does this stuff.

 

[TexIndian]

Re: Please advise: another very first hand load workup

Federal brass has the widely-held reputation of being a little soft. This shows up in the form of deformed primer pockets with loads that get anywhere close to maximum. By 'deformed', I mean they tend to get loose and won't hold the primers as tightly as they did when they were new. If you want to start experimenting with other brands, Win brass is one of the better brands and is cheaper than most.

Even after 30 years I still remember how much fun it was to see my bullets shoot well. Just don't get frustrated as you follow a few blind alleys from time to time. This game is a never-ending learning curve.

 

[esromvre]

Re: Please advise: another very first hand load workup

I shoot 43.5 of RL 15 and a 175smk's. This winchester pushfeed can off the bench of corse hit 5 shot groops in the .06 range.

Consistency is accuracy not speed....

 

[datguy]

Re: Please advise: another very first hand load workup

I ordered the Sinclair measuring block setup as well as a Wilson case trimmer. Going to have to wait a couple weeks to buy the Redding dies and bushings..

I saw some of the Winchester brass locally for a decent price. I think I'll switch to it once I get the Redding dies.

In the mean time, I'll continue to ladder test the Sierra 168's.

 

[wrhunter]

Re: Please advise: another very first hand load workup

Remember that the Win brass will have a different internal volume so your ideal powder charge will likely change.

 

[Mech45]

Re: Please advise: another very first hand load workup

Try some Lapua brass, it is expensive but worth the money for the consistancy and longevity you will get from it. The Redding bushing dies are nice but the competition seating die may show you more of an accuracy improvement. They hold the bullet and case in better alignment when seating the bullet.In all the calibers I have reloaded for the best accuracy I got was a load that was under max velocity.Do a search on a ladder test and give that a try. Hope this Helps.

Chris

 

[datguy]

Re: Please advise: another very first hand load workup

CMS, I was thinking on buying the Redding Competition Bushing Neck Die Set.

The Lapua brass is a lot more spendy. I do see a lot of mentions that it is worth the extra cash. I'll give it a go a little down the line, when I am more experienced with the whole process.

 

[Mech45]

Re: Please advise: another very first hand load workup

Thats the one to get, mike the outside of the necks of some of your loaded rounds. Take an average of that measurement and then select a bushing that is .002 under that dimension. This has worked for me and is a good starting point, you can go smaller if you need more neck tension. This is another variable that affects accuracy.

Chris

 

[datguy]

Re: Please advise: another very first hand load workup

Outside? or inside??

 

[Mech45]

Re: Please advise: another very first hand load workup

Outside dimension of the case at the neck just behind the case mouth of a loaded round.

http://www.redding-reloading.com/tech-line-a-tips

 

[datguy]

Re: Please advise: another very first hand load workup

I used the Hornady OAL gauge to measure my chamber. I came up with 2.875 after measuring several times. I'm not quite to the point where I want to experiment with seating depth too much.

I am wondering if it would be a good idea to keep seating to 2.800 or should I make them a little longer?

 

[Mech45]

Re: Please advise: another very first hand load workup

I go as long as the magazine will let me, that is usually short of the rifling. In a tactical or hunting application you don't want the bullet to touch the lands. The reason for this is if you have to extract a live round you don't want the bullet staying in the chamber.What is the longest round you can load and still have it feed from the magazine?

 

[DarkD]

Re: Please advise: another very first hand load workup

If you came up with 2.875, then I personally I waould say load it at 2.865, assuming you can realiably feed that length.

The longer you can seat the bullet out will give you a few advantages...

1. More internal case capacity....Varget is a great powder for .308 but you can max out on case capacity before you begin overpressuring. For instance, my .308 likes 45.5 gr of Varget with a 155gr A-Max. I typically can get 1/8" or tighter groups at 100 yds. The slight downside, the case is ar about 102% capacity, meaning a slightly compressed load.

2. Less jump before engaging the rifling. This can help with accuracy, especially if you are planning on using Berger VLDs

Remington and Winchester brass work good for lower cost brass, but Lapua brass is one of the best if you have the case to spend.

 

[datguy]

Re: Please advise: another very first hand load workup

I have been following the "Loading for Long Range" stickies in this forum and have been learning a lot. Well, I ordered the Sinclair comparator body and insert.. not knowing I also need the bump gauge insert to measure case height to the neck datum line. So, a few more days of waiting to get that little piece so I can, hopefully, get my brass sizing heading in the right direction.

I got the Wilson case trimmer today. Pretty nice piece I must say.

One step at a time..

 

[swi7z3r]

Re: Please advise: another very first hand load workup

Awesome thread datguy, I'm about to press my first loads in an other week or so here and you're being a perfect canary for me. This is getting me even more excited to start getting data.

I'm interested in your Chrono situation. I too have an Alpha in the mail and assumed it would be the least likely to give me any trouble as far as using equipment properly. Got any warnings or tips?

Keep reporting, you're on point for me.

 

[datguy]

Re: Please advise: another very first hand load workup

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swi7z3r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Awesome thread datguy, I'm about to press my first loads in an other week or so here and you're being a perfect canary for me. This is getting me even more excited to start getting data.

I'm interested in your Chrono situation. I too have an Alpha in the mail and assumed it would be the least likely to give me any trouble as far as using equipment properly. Got any warnings or tips?

Keep reporting, you're on point for me.</div></div>

A few things I have learned about the Chrony.. Use a "laser bore sighter" when positioning the Chrony to check the bullet's flight path between the wires. If your rifle jumps around when fired, strap it into a sled and weigh the sled down. This is where I went wrong and accidentally shot the wire. Lastly, the Chrony's basic principle of operation is it has two photo eyes that sense the small change in light caused by bullet flying over it. So, light is critical to its performance. A guy at the range uses their LED lamp set. I plan to order some. They seem to be a great help with getting consistent readings.

The other advice I have is do the best you can with what you currently have and take your time with all of it. Of course, be safe!!

 

[datguy]

Re: Please advise: another very first hand load workup

I picked up some Lapua brass this weekend. It is really crazy how nice the Lapua stuff is. Cabelas had it for $70/100. I got the Sinclair bump gauge and bullet comparator gauge. I am using Federal 210M primers, 168 SMK and Varget with the Lapua brass.

The brass measures well within any specs I have in my manuals. Seems like maybe I should fire form the brass/work up the powder charge and see where things are.

Exciting!

 

[datguy]

Re: Please advise: another very first hand load workup

I loaded up four sets of 8 rounds today - 42.0, 42.5, 43.0 and 43.5gr of Varget with:

Lapua brass, new, used it straight out of the box
Federal 210M
168 SMK
2.800

Interested in what I should try next. I keep reading about people using 45-46gr Varget. Hodgdon lists 46.0 as the max charge weight. My Sierra book lists 43.5.

Test shots in above target were taken from the bench with a bipod and sandbag.

 

[Mech45]

Re: Please advise: another very first hand load workup

Here is a link to some info you may find helpful: http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/308win/

 

[Gene Poole]

Re: Please advise: another very first hand load workup

43.0 and 43.5 have the least vertical dispersion. I'd work up some loads in that range in 0.2 or 0.1 grain increments, say 42.8, 43.0, 43.2, 43.4, 43.6, and run them again. Of course, always start with the lower loads and check for pressure signs before going higher.

Also, my experience with Lapua brass has been pretty great, but I do notice the occasional dinged neck so I always run the new cases through a neck die (Lee deluxe collet) to ensure all necks are the same. I also give a quick turn in my Forester 3-in-1 after the neck die to get a bit of chamfer so the bullets go in straight and clean.

 

[datguy]

Re: Please advise: another very first hand load workup

Loading up more rounds to take to the range later today. I load eight of each charge weight. My rifle's magazine holds four. I'm going to load up 41.5, 43.0, 43.5, 44.0, 44.5, 45.0, 45.5 and 46.0.

 

[datguy]

Re: Please advise: another very first hand load workup

Target from today's outing.

I tried 41.5 to ensure that I hadn't started to high in my previous outing. I fired four rounds at each charge weight except 44.5. Eight 44.5s. The center of the target shots that are high were me adjusting the scope. The group is four Federal GMM 168 SMK factory loads.

I'm not sure where to focus my efforts now. 43.0 and 43.5 both had a tight group of 3 rounds. Then 45.5 and 46.0 had tight grouping as well.

I ran out of daylight or I would have shot the other set of each charge weight.

 

[Mendy300wm]

Re: Please advise: another very first hand load workup

45.5 is your best group

 

[AtOne]

Re: Please advise: another very first hand load workup

I'd load up 5 each of 43.4, 43.6, 45.4, 45.6 just to see if they settle in any tighter on either side of 43.5 and 45.6.

We're you seeing or feeling any pressure signs ?

Their looking pretty good. Remember its not only about the load but also your experience with shooting tight groups consistently.

So unless your a rock solid 1/2" group shooter don't stress too much if your not getting that from your load development, Just pick one that looks consistently good using the OCW method and practice with it.

Remember to have fun too

Good Luck

 

[datguy]

Re: Please advise: another very first hand load workup

I am not seeing any pressure signs that I can detect, even at 46.0 which is what Hodgdon lists as max load for 168SMK and Varget. I am shooting in 57F, 57%, rainy/overcast weather.

I really liked the way the rifle shot all of the different loads, from the shooter perspective.

I am having a blast! Thank you all for the input!

 

[yemtig]

Re: Please advise: another very first hand load workup

Really love this thread, like how you're doing a "diary" on your workup which helps for us newbies... Keep the updates coming

MT

 

[datguy]

Life happens. New job resulted in a move. That led to new house. Now I am setting up a reloading bench and getting back into this. Developing an accurate round for my rifle, shooting it, evaluate, rinse and repeat is a great outlet for me. I miss and enjoy the whole cycle. So, I'm back.

I ordered a few things today and am sorting out making a reloading bench. Excited to get to the range..

 

[datguy]

Finished building a reloading bench. Slowly but surely getting things set up.

 

[mtrmn]

I know a lot of this is an old thread. But I used (or tried to) a Chrony for years. Constantly plagued with errors and the instructions and button labeling were not conducive to efficient use. One of the buttons was actually marked "FU"-go figure. Finally shot the dam thing and had to replace it. Wish I'd done so years ago--look at all the lost info and wasted shots I could have saved. I bought a Competition Electronics Prochrono Digital. Easy instructions that don't appear to be poorly translated from a foreign language (or Geek-speak)-buttons labeled like an actual Redneck American would label them. I read the directions once and never had to pick them up again. And after probably 250 or so rounds---so far not a single error or questionable reading.

 

[datguy]

MagnetSpeed v2 shows up tomorrow. Hoping this solves the chronograph thing for good.

Loading up a box of 46gr Varget on 168gr SMKs to see how they do.

 

[datguy]

This thread has been a great tool for me to review this load workup. Much better than starting all over. A few goodies have shown up recently and I'm hoping to get to the range this weekend. After much reading and consideration, I am going to load up a bunch and see how they do this weekend..

I'm thinking 45.5gr Varget on the 168gr SMKs. I have prepped more new cases. I will be able to clock them as well as shoot a few groups. This is a lot of fun!

 

[datguy]

45.5gr Varget, Federal 210M, 168gr SMK, new Lapua brass. Two sets of 5, second one with .001 more neck tension. Federal GMM 168SMK clocked at 2554fps average in this rifle today.

Groups weren't as tight as last time I loaded same round. All about .6" at 100 yards.

 

[datguy]

Taking a close look at the fired brass from my previous post above. There are scratches along huge length of the fired cases. Is this caused by too much pressure?

 

[datguy]

I did some more investigating.. Looks like I'm getting lighter versions of the same scratches when I chamber and eject unfired brass. Not sure how to figure out what is causing this..

 

[105gr]

Long range load development at 100 yards.

 

[AIdog]

Check the chamber for sand...

 

[datguy]

Please advise: another very first hand load workup

Working with Dan Newberry to sort out a good recipe for my FN. Charge weights are all +/- .02gr. Minimal wind. Had issue with my chronograph so I missed a few readings.


These are all seated to 2.855 COAL.

 

[datguy]

Loaded up three sets of seven rounds and 41.9gr charge. 2.855" COAL and a plus and minus .005" set. The first three of each seating depth printed horizontal lines.

Target:


Data sheet: