Gunsmithing Learning gunsmithing/machining, which gun to start out on?

[BenY 2013]

So I currently taking machinists courses at my local community college, and I work at a gun related shop with lots of machinery that can be used in making pretty much anything I can think up. I am looking for projects that are going to get my work noticed. I have a few things rolling as several members here already know. Right now I am just looking at doing it on the side. That being said I would still like for my work to be noticed and possibly make some money doing what I enjoy until whatever it becomes on down the road. And yes I do realize that getting started in this type of thing is not cheap, read most of the posts here entitled "I want to become a gunsmith.." I know it isn't easy either. But that is not what I am asking.

I am wanting to know what you guys would recommend as far as a starting project gun? I have a Savage .308 that is currently getting a "face lift" and I am planning on learning as much from that project as I can. I am also working on a CZ 455 as well, doing quite a few things to it! I've got a Rem. 788 that could use some TLC as well. I would prefer a precision bolt gun for this project, but certainly don't want to limit myself to that kind of work. Pistols are out right now since I am only 18 and my dad won't let me tear his apart.. So I figured that a bolt gun would most likely be the way to go! What do I need to get? Savage, Rem., Tikka? (Considering doing away with the barrel nut on my Savage as one way to learn how to chamber.) Should I try an AR or Shotgun? Along with this I will be getting another CZ 455 as well to be a "test" gun. Going to try some different things as well as chambering a custom barrel for it.

Here are some things I want to learn from this project:
Chambering and barrel fitment.
Glass and pillar bedding.
Fit and finish that I see from some of the tops smiths here. (I understand these are broad categories, but I am trying to keep it short.)

Also is this what I should be doing trying to get my name out there? Or are there other things that I should do? I should also probably mention that the guns that I have are guns that I am planning on keeping, if I got a "project gun" I would most likely sell it once I was finished to fund another project. I really do appreciate any input from you guys!

Ben

 

[p8nt]

If you are doing it for money, then you need to do something else. Learn to machine some truely complicated items and get a real foundation in machining.

 

[ken226]

If you are doing it for money, then you need to do something else. Learn to machine some truely complicated items and get a real foundation in machining.

While I don't disagree with you for someone just starting out and buying their first machine, there's definitely money to be made for someone with the machines, tools and knowledge/experience to chamber, thread, crown, mill dovetails, headspace, true actions etc.

But just starting out, your profit margin is going to be very, very, very !!! in the negative. You'll spend tons of money on machines and tooling, get very little in return other than knowledge, experience and fun.

But, to actually answer your question, I'll recommend a project to get your feet wet.

1st, rebarreling one of your bolt action rifles from a barrel blank. You'll need a reamer and no-go guage in your intended caliber. Leave the barrel about 4 inches longer than your minimum acceptable length, so you can start over a few times. You'll have to be good at facing, turning to diameter, threading, reaming, using the compound rest to cut chamfer angles, indicating, measuring internal clearances for headspacing and other things as well.


Another option, not gun related but something i've made money on before, and still do every time I need a little extra is some Ducati racing steering stems.
I used to race a Ducati and have crashed them ALOT on the track. The stems get bent pretty often, while the upper and lower clamps are still good. Racers usually buy a used replacement lower clamp with stem installed just due to non-availability of the stem as a standalone part. I make them from 4130 tubing with 1/2 in wall thickness.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUCATI-748-...pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item1c3aa154f3

Just buy a good one on ebay and make some copies. I machine mine about .250 thicker diameter than the factory stem for safety sake. But the customers are happy, my stems are stronger and take crashes better than the factory stems.

The Superbike models stems are very very easy to sell. The Streetbike model stems, not so much. The 748, 916, 996, 998, 749, 999, 848, 1098, 1198 are all used for racing and factory replacement parts are $$$$$$$. As an example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ducati-Stee...Parts_Accessories&hash=item257c879b84&vxp=mtr

 

[BenY 2013]

While I don't disagree with you for someone just starting out and buying their first machine, there's definitely money to be made for someone with the machines, tools and knowledge/experience to chamber, thread, crown, mill dovetails, headspace, true actions etc.

But just starting out, your profit margin is going to be very, very, very !!! in the negative. You'll spend tons of money on machines and tooling, get very little in return other than knowledge, experience and fun.

But, to actually answer your question, I'll recommend a project to get your feet wet.

1st, rebarreling one of your bolt action rifles from a barrel blank. You'll need a reamer and no-go guage in your intended caliber. Leave the barrel about 4 inches longer than your minimum acceptable length, so you can start over a few times. You'll have to be good at facing, turning to diameter, threading, reaming, using the compound rest to cut chamfer angles, indicating, measuring internal clearances for headspacing and other things as well.


Another option, not gun related but something i've made money on before, and still do every time I need a little extra is some Ducati racing steering stems.
I used to race a Ducati and have crashed them ALOT on the track. The stems get bent pretty often, while the upper and lower clamps are still good. Racers usually buy a used replacement lower clamp with stem installed just due to non-availability of the stem as a standalone part. I make them from 4130 tubing with 1/2 in wall thickness.
Ducati 748 916 996 998 Bottom Yoke Stem Steering Crown Head Top 34220101A | eBay

Just buy a good one on ebay and make some copies. I machine mine about .250 thicker diameter than the factory stem for safety sake. But the customers are happy, my stems are stronger and take crashes better than the factory stems.

The Superbike models stems are very very easy to sell. The Streetbike model stems, not so much. The 748, 916, 996, 998, 749, 999, 848, 1098, 1198 are all used for racing and factory replacement parts are $$$$$$$. As an example: Ducati Steering Stem | eBay

Thank you that was a very helpful post! I do understand that I am most likely not going to get rich from this, that was never my intended purpose. I do think it is possible to make a living from, not right away but one day, and maybe not even me but someone could for sure! I think I may start out re-barreling my Savage(without the barrel nut) and my Rem. 788. Once those are done I may move on to another build that I will try and sell. Not a bad idea about the Ducati parts either! I really appreciate your input and would love to hear others!

Ben

 

[damoncali]

If you value your sanity, do NOT work on a Ducati. Beautiful machines, though. Had one years ago. Loved it. Hated it.

 

[ken226]

If you value your sanity, do NOT work on a Ducati. Beautiful machines, though. Had one years ago. Loved it. Hated it.

Ha! Funny you should say that. I did all my own work, including engine work, rebuilds, both top and bottom end, valves every single raceday or trackday (Broke opener retainers every single time!)

The first time you take the valve covers off, the inside of the head looks like a nest of giant tarantulas mating!

 

[damoncali]

Ha! Funny you should say that. I did all my own work, including engine work, rebuilds, both top and bottom end, valves every single raceday or trackday (Broke opener retainers every single time!)

The first time you take the valve covers off, the inside of the head looks like a nest of giant tarantulas mating!

You are a better man than I can ever hope to be. I gave up the first time I twisted a bolt head off *at running torque*. It was one of those funny metric ones that had to come from the factory if you wanted any hope of finding it, too. I have never seen such a polarizing machine. I can't help but stare at every one I see, but then I remember how much of a pain in the ass they are and I snap out of it!

PS. Sorry for derailing your thread, OP. I'll shut up now.

 

[JJones75]

Get a solid foundation for basic machining. While precision bolt guns are where most money is spent you can also offer shotgun work. When I was working on guns here and their I bought a backboring reamer and forcing cone reamer. One weekend doing barrels for some local officers paid for the tools. Making and installing brakes can ve a profit as well

 

[BenY 2013]

I am working on the foundation of machining, I am in the 3rd semester of Machine Tool classes and my main instructor somewhat took me under his wing, offered me a job at his shop where they do some work on guns(mostly threading barrels for suppressors), and pretty much helps me when I need it. Precision rifles are definitely my favorite, but I have also given shotguns a little thought. Anything that I can learn on! Thanks

Ben

 

[chipsfan]

I do this for fun, not a job, but I started out with shotguns, Ghost ring sights, then back boring, forcing cones, choke tubes...

That lead to pistol sights, heines, lo mount Novaks, etc...

Now I am building rifles. I think the rifles are the most reward because you have immediate feedback on how you did. You either did a good job and the rifle shoots well, or you didn't. Its a little more objective.

 

[BenY 2013]

Good advice! I have considered buying a trash Rem. 870 to do some work on!

Ben

 

[chipsfan]

Good advice! I have considered buying a trash Rem. 870 to do some work on!

Ben

Here is what I would do: go to summitt gun broker (http://www.summitgunbroker.com/) and buy a trade in 870 Police (or an older 870 Magnum from the pre police gun days). The 870P is sprung differently, the top of the receiver has a milled rib, the trigger guard is compressed metal and they come off a separate assembly line. Occasionally you'll find park guns that aren't stamped police, but magnum. They sold these to PDs before they developed the "police" line. Get one with a bead front sight, the rifle sights are solders and blind pinned in place, the rear sight ramp is a pain in the ass to remove,. If you use Scattergun or Trijicon ghost ring you can cut off the bead and the sight glues over the bead base.

Go to Brownells and order a Vang Comp Systems front site, rear sight, Manson 735 and 740 back bore reamers, magazine tube, oversized safety and some Cerakote.

Strip the gun, backbore and hone the tube, port the barrel on the mill (practice indexing and porting) install the front sight (you have to index and silver solder it), rear sight (you just need to drill and tap 4 holes and drill a clearance hole (his measurements are wrong, you need to back everything up around .100" to stay in the thick part of the receiver). You can either cut the stock an inch shorter and refinish it (practice cerakoting), or buy an after market. Done. Bad ass custom 870.

Shotguns are easier to work on then most firearms, cheap, and very forgiving. You can do some cool stuff with them and if you screw up and drill a hole in the wrong place or something, you can always tig weld it closed and start over. The sight system will cost you nearly as much as the used gun but it is top notch stuff. Use cheap stuff- get cheap results. You can go all in on a shotgun and it still far cheaper then doing a rifle or 1911.

 

[BenY 2013]

Awesome advice! Thanks

Ben

 

[gewehr]

mauser 98 or m48 yugo mauser etc. will give you the basics of gunbuilding all the while not costing a pretty penny. a well built mauser can run with nearly anything