HS Precision stock vs McRee chassis

[corey4]

a few days ago i started a thread "understanding MILs", as some of you may remember. i had mentioned i was going to do a review and my thoughts on the stock vs chassis.

SET UP:
5R 308, 20" (no suppressor to eliminate as many variables as possible)
voretx pst 6-24 MIL scope
FGMM 168
10 shot groups for each, both groups from the same box for the attached pic. each round was hand feed, not stripped from the mag by the bolt
HS Precision stock inletted for DBM (do not remember which one, as i bought the inletted stock and bottom metal kit from a hide member awhile ago)
McRee chassis
both were torqued to 65in/lbs
200 yds
Caldwell Rock JR front rest, some sort of rear bag, shooting off a bench
stock/chassis hereinafter referred as "S/C”
the attached pic is an average representation of the groups

my goal was to see which one i liked best. i am torn…
i got the scope dialed in for 200 yds for elevation for each S/C. interestingly, the HS was 1.0 MIL high consistently compared to the McRee. i am not sure why, maybe someone could chime in. the important thing was that it was repeatable and 100% consistent for elevation and windage. just dial it in! no math, no MILs to metric to inches back to MILs. for those of you that were following my “understanding MILs” thread will understand where i am coming from. LOL i was not worried at this time about windage as i was going for the best groups i could, not bulls eyes. i would start out with one S/C, shoot a group, then swap the barreled action to the other S/C. i did this quite a few times, swapping back and forth so i could get a good back-to-back feel for each one. i was hoping muscle memory would kick in, and i would be able to spot my likes/dislikes right away. muscle memory did kick in, but not significant enough to make a difference. i was able to overcome and adjust within a few seconds.

for the HS, i felt it was more stable/comfortable/natural. i was able to keep a more steady sight picture than with the McRee. Maybe because i have an untold 1000s of rounds with previous traditional stocks with my 22s and prior ‘06s and 308s?

what i don’t understand is why the McRee was so much more accurate when i didn’t appear to have a rock solid sight picture compared to the HS? when i acquired my sight picture, i could see the reticle move around with my breathing, trigger squeeze, heartbeat, etc. the HS, it was rock solid, but the pic of the group i have attached is obviously bigger.

the HS also had more perceived felt recoil. maybe it is the rock hard rubber butt plate, whereas the McRee has a nice squishy butt plate?

if it wasn’t for group size, I would pick the traditional stock hands down. but the proof is in the puddin’ bud.

is there anything i should change, check on the HS?

i don't dislike the McRee at all. i can work with it, no problem. i am just trying to wrap head around my findings.


<a href="http://s1248.photobucket.com/user/corey762/media/200yds_zps03fc8d85.jpeg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1248.photobucket.com/albums/hh491/corey762/200yds_zps03fc8d85.jpeg" border="0" alt=" photo 200yds_zps03fc8d85.jpeg"/></a>

 

[JBNj]

Is the hs bedded? Also to throw another variable into the mix. What would happen if you handloaded tailored to each s/c to find the most accurate load? Maybe your hs doesn't like the 168 fgmm as much as the mcree? You say recoil was more noticeable with the hs (possible opening your shots slightly?) and what is weight compared between s/c?

Questions from a newbie is just wondering.

 

[SporterII]

a few days ago i started a thread "understanding MILs", as some of you may remember. i had mentioned i was going to do a review and my thoughts on the stock vs chassis.

SET UP:.....
.. Maybe because i have an untold 1000s of rounds with previous traditional stocks with my 22s and prior ‘06s and 308s?.....

This is why I have four HS stocks, and like them. Familiar and work for general all / any position that need be used.
Bedded and un bedded, Mine shoot. POI changes are me. As to yours, fit, is something to look at. Lug to lug area, tang, hardware centered. Hard to know.
The chassis probably is a superb [mechanical] fit.

 

[goodmanfj]

I have both , The HS can be very accurate but some times you have to work on the bedding area to get them to shoot right,ck torque, The Mcree has more weight which will help . Make sure the HS is not touching the barrel in the front or anywhere else.

 

[roggom]

The McRee is obviously heavier so you will have less perceived recoil. The groups are decent for 200y looks like the bbl is hopping a bit out of the rest and causing the shift to the left. All rifles will have a minor shift when restocking them but you have a bit of a left and upward spread going on. We're you using a rear bag and using your support hand under the buttstock? Just for S&G's next time you are at the range just rest the rifle on a backpack and use your support hand on the fore grip, no rear bag. Just curious if your groups will tighten with the HS. One thing I like about the HS is the way it fits into my shoulder pocket. I can shoot comfortably from offhand to prone.

 

[Ultraman550]

Mentality does a number on the way we shoot. Knowing the HS has more recoil maybe you're flinching ever so slightly. Maybe because you're so used to shooting with a traditional stock you didn't focus on the fundamentals because of "comfort" whereas with the McCrees, because it was harder to get a proper sight picture, you focused more on the fundamentals because of lack of comfort. Does your HS have an aluminum chassis? Sometimes those chassis can be off center which will result in less desirable groupings. As mentioned look into bedding but also talk to Chad at LRI about their surface bedding process. I did some chrono testing with SW Ammo's 168 AMAX two weeks ago. My scope was positioned further back so the butt of the stock wasn't snugly fit into the meat of my shoulder. I was lined up behind my rifle, had a good cheek weld but I wasn't "tight". My groupings were not what I desired at all so I thought "this ammo sucks in my gun". The following weekend I positioned my scope further forward allowing me to bring in the butt of the stock deeper into my shoulder and the overall feeling when lined up behind my rifle was I felt "tighter". Groupings took a 180 and the 10 shot group was very desirable. I was more comfortable with the position I was holding my stock so the thought of not being comfortable like I was before wasn't on my mind. I think this played a big part on my shooting as well as the position of the scope. I love my HS stock. Its light and comfortable and despite what others say, HS makes good stuff.

 

[fdkay]

I have an HS precision 5R stock and an XLR chassis.
The HS shot well, but I had trouble with a consistent grip, which led to inconsistent trigger press, which led to inconsistent groups.
I really like the 5R stock, but that thin, hard butt pad sucks. It is also a traditional style stock which leads to more perceived recoil.

 

[corey4]

Is the hs bedded? Also to throw another variable into the mix. What would happen if you handloaded tailored to each s/c to find the most accurate load? Maybe your hs doesn't like the 168 fgmm as much as the mcree? You say recoil was more noticeable with the hs (possible opening your shots slightly?) and what is weight compared between s/c?

Questions from a newbie is just wondering.

the HS is not bedded. i do not reload at this time, but i see myself getting into it in the near future. the weight difference isn't much. maybe a pound if that.

The McRee is obviously heavier so you will have less perceived recoil. The groups are decent for 200y looks like the bbl is hopping a bit out of the rest and causing the shift to the left. All rifles will have a minor shift when restocking them but you have a bit of a left and upward spread going on. We're you using a rear bag and using your support hand under the buttstock? Just for S&G's next time you are at the range just rest the rifle on a backpack and use your support hand on the fore grip, no rear bag. Just curious if your groups will tighten with the HS. One thing I like about the HS is the way it fits into my shoulder pocket. I can shoot comfortably from offhand to prone.

i do have my hand under the S/C, supporting the rear bag. why would it make a difference?

i do notice that when i shoot any rifle, that after the recoil pulse, i am up and left. even with my stupid 22, up and left.

Mentality does a number on the way we shoot. Knowing the HS has more recoil maybe you're flinching ever so slightly. Maybe because you're so used to shooting with a traditional stock you didn't focus on the fundamentals because of "comfort" whereas with the McCrees, because it was harder to get a proper sight picture, you focused more on the fundamentals because of lack of comfort. Does your HS have an aluminum chassis? Sometimes those chassis can be off center which will result in less desirable groupings. As mentioned look into bedding but also talk to Chad at LRI about their surface bedding process. I did some chrono testing with SW Ammo's 168 AMAX two weeks ago. My scope was positioned further back so the butt of the stock wasn't snugly fit into the meat of my shoulder. I was lined up behind my rifle, had a good cheek weld but I wasn't "tight". My groupings were not what I desired at all so I thought "this ammo sucks in my gun". The following weekend I positioned my scope further forward allowing me to bring in the butt of the stock deeper into my shoulder and the overall feeling when lined up behind my rifle was I felt "tighter". Groupings took a 180 and the 10 shot group was very desirable. I was more comfortable with the position I was holding my stock so the thought of not being comfortable like I was before wasn't on my mind. I think this played a big part on my shooting as well as the position of the scope. I love my HS stock. Its light and comfortable and despite what others say, HS makes good stuff.

my HS has the aluminum bedding blocks, if that is what you mean.

i wouldn't say i am recoil sensitive, but who knows, maybe i am flinching a bit.

never really thought about the possible laxidazzy fundamentals with the HS. makes sense.

it is going to be pretty shitty here for the next few weeks, so it might be towards the end of february before i get out again.

 

[corey4]

As to yours, fit, is something to look at. Lug to lug area, tang, hardware centered. Hard to know.

not real sure how to check this stuff, or even what everything is without guessing. i definitely do not know what the tang is. i think i know what the lug is, the square piece that below the barrel in front of the trigger group? hardware centered? not sure exactly what you mean.

 

[corey4]

I have both , The HS can be very accurate but some times you have to work on the bedding area to get them to shoot right,ck torque, The Mcree has more weight which will help . Make sure the HS is not touching the barrel in the front or anywhere else.

the aluminum bedding blocks in the stock?

as far as check the torque, it was set at 65in/lbs.

 

[goodmanfj]

Ck the aluminum bedding are where the receiver sits , Do a internet search on HS bedding will give some good ideas. try to torque the front then back . I had to back mine off to 60lbs torque . HS are capable of 1/2 moa

 

[Irokcrawl]

The mcree is going to be much more ridged and when you put the barreled action in and tq down it to the same specs it should be almost identical resulting in more consistent groups if I'm reading your post right (are the shots/groups a mixture of moving between each stock/chassis?). I like the mcree chassis personally and really like his new setup but personally run manners which have a badger mini chassis and are also Devon bedded so it's almost always back in the same position if I remove the action to adjust the trigger to get it exactly where I want it. At 100 yards over 10 shots the group generally will never be over 1/2moa, even after pulling it 5 times to fiddle with the trigger.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

 

[corey4]

the groups are 10 shot groups, all shot consistantly, 200 yds. so, 10 shots out of the mcree, then 10 shots out of the HS.

 

[majohnson2]

I've been shooting a McRee G5 Tmag stock now for over a year. The receiver is stock with a Kreiger barrel and the stock recoil lug a must for McRee stock. I felt it was a good replacement for what Remington refers to as a stock. One benefit was that it required no blocks or bedding. That eliminates any worries about damaging the bedding when cleaning the trigger or damage from solvents when cleaning. Another plus is being able to remove and reinstall with zero change in POI.

Yesterday was the 1st range day after removing the stock to clean and lubing the trigger assembly. I started off at 300yds, dial in elevation and windage the 1st shot was 1moa high 1/4 to far left. After the adjust the last 4 shots had .388 moa group. Thats not bad in 1/4 value wind and a budget built rifle. The other advantage is the stock is adjustable LOP and comb height all it take is an allen wrench. I've even swap barreled action and stuck my 223 in the chassis still with no zero shift. For the $625 price tag it offers a great value in aftermarket stocks.

 

[corey4]

that is why i originally purchased the mcree. just drop it in.

either way, it was interesting to note the differences when i was shooting. when the weather goes back up to 35* from the 0* we have now, i would like to do it again and focus more on what ultraman550 suggested.

 

[morganlamprecht]

the HS is not bedded. i do not reload at this time, but i see myself getting into it in the near future. the weight difference isn't much. maybe a pound if that.






i do have my hand under the S/C, supporting the rear bag. why would it make a difference?

i do notice that when i shoot any rifle, that after the recoil pulse, i am up and left. even with my stupid 22, up and left.




my HS has the aluminum bedding blocks, if that is what you mean.

i wouldn't say i am recoil sensitive, but who knows, maybe i am flinching a bit.

never really thought about the possible laxidazzy fundamentals with the HS. makes sense.

it is going to be pretty shitty here for the next few weeks, so it might be towards the end of february before i get out again.

i had the same problem with my unbraked 308, high and left after recoil...i found that i had the buttstock too close to the center of my body...i basically moved it closer to where my armpit is when set up...the easiest way i found to set up, was shoulder the rifle like i was standing unsupported and it naturally put me in the correct postion, then i would try to copy that shoulder position on the bench/prone...helped a lot to drive through recoil

also i saw a video on youtube from lowlight where he showed how leaning into a rifle more/less can cause significant POI shifts @ 100 yds...i have a 260 rem in a mcree that is braked and it shoots awesome no matter how i hold it...my 308 is in a MDT lss and weighs 6 lbs less and unbraked...i can feel just as stable when i break a shot but if i change how i am driving the rifle through recoil i get more noticeable POI shifts (if i drive it hard my 0 will drop about .3 mils @ 100 yds...it will still group well, just impact lower)...my heavy mcree build is basically way more forgiving and i feel like shooting the light 308 build makes me focus more and helps me become a better shooter

 

[morganlamprecht]

also i see u have a vortex ffp scope so im not sure what you're getting at with all your mil conversion stuff lol (wasnt in the other thread) but u should be able to shoot once, measure it off with your reticule, spin your turrets to compensate then be pretty much dead center...