Just started lifting. A question.

[-paradox-]

Hey guys I just started lifting weights, and haven't since high scool. I'm 26 now. How long does it typically take before you up the weight? For example, I've been doing arms and chest every other day for about two weeks. I'm comfortable going up in weight on everything except biceps. Still pretty maxed out on the last set. Anyway, just curious how often you up your reps or weight.

 

[jimbowe]

Go slow. Your bones and connective tissue need to acclimate to the increased stress, and they respond much more slowly than the muscles do. At your age you could probably get away with maxing things out right away, but you would be taking a risk of injury. Gradually increasing reps is less likely to tear something than increasing weight.

 

[-paradox-]

Any estimations as far as time goes? I know everyone's different, but is a month too fast or is that pushing it ya think?

 

[jimbowe]

I'm not qualified to give you specifics. You might do some reading on "periodization." My own weight/fitness training emphasizes working the whole body and not maxing out very often, but I'm not too concerned with building mass.

What are your goals? I'm sure someone else can offer better guidance or point you towards a program of quantified increases.

 

[dcnyli]

There is no time involved, go in and work hard. As u end sets you should fatigue and by the last set of any movement you should almost fail. Once it gets beyond that then you slowly up the weight

Slow and steady wins the race, and keeps you from racking up doctors bills...

 

[308sniper147]

Hey guys I just started lifting weights, and haven't since high scool. I'm 26 now. How long does it typically take before you up the weight? For example, I've been doing arms and chest every other day for about two weeks. I'm comfortable going up in weight on everything except biceps. Still pretty maxed out on the last set. Anyway, just curious how often you up your reps or weight.

I have to put in my input here. I am a pretty successful trainer and Amateur natural bodybuilder, and I stress form very liberally. Most people not keeping correct form results in a less than satisfactory contraction of the intended muscle. Many people want to use heavy weight and end up using back from resulting in less muscle fibers in the intended area to be worked along with exponentially increasing the risk of injury. Also, I have to respectfully disagree with the other gentleman on this thread. Your bones and connective tissue in no way physiologically adapt to more weight. The muscles around them grow stronger and support them better. In all honesty 90% of males I see working out that have had no proper teaching are using more weight than they probably should anyway, but that is speculation and I don't know you or how you work out, but I will link many videos by Ben Pakulski which is my personal favorite Olympia competitior as he is very cerebral in his thought process into bodybuilding.

How to Train Your Chest and Back by Ben Pakulski - YouTube


http://youtu.be/tqCrNADRl6g


Ben Pakulski Teaches Optimal Ab Training for Six Pack Abs - YouTube


http://youtu.be/u3AbFlyLYOA


Ben Pakulski Chest Training Tips (THICK UPPER CHEST) - YouTube



Ben Pakulski Back Training (BIG Back Training) - YouTube


Ben Pakulski How to Do Lunges for Big Legs (TRAINING) - YouTube


Ben Pakulski Hamstring Workout (OPTIMAL Training) - YouTube



Ben Pakulski Calf Workout (Massive Calves) - YouTube



Ben Pakulski Barbell VS Dumbbell (Bench Press) - YouTube




Please feel free to PM me if you have any further questions.



Andrew

 

[JBNj]

If your just started getting back into lifting than you should be able to take advantage of newb gains. With that said you will want to follow a program that will fit your end goal. If your want to get stronger than i would focus on big compound movements more compared to secondary muscle groups (bicep,tricep, save those for after your major movement. Something like starting strength, strong lifts, Madcow, 5x5 are good programs to look into for a beginner. You should be able to add 5lbs each session on your major movements. Secondary muscle groups 5lb a week. Once you hit a plateau you'll reduce the weight 10% and work back up each session. If you hit another plateau you can either only add 5lb a week for your major movements or jump into an intermediate program (Wendler 5/3/1, etc).

I would stay away from any body building type workouts until you get to intermediate type strength programs (unless competitive bodybuilding is your thing). reason is you'll slow your strength progress. You will be surprised how far newb strength gains will take you. Not trying insult you by saying newb, just that you just started getting back into things.

 

[jimbowe]

...Also, I have to respectfully disagree with the other gentleman on this thread. Your bones and connective tissue in no way physiologically adapt to more weight. The muscles around them grow stronger and support them better.

You don't think that weightlifting has any affect on bone density or connective tissue strength? You might want to research that a bit more.

I think the rest of your post and videos are right on though.

 

[308sniper147]

If your just started getting back into lifting than you should be able to take advantage of newb gains. With that said you will want to follow a program that will fit your end goal. If your want to get stronger than i would focus on big compound movements more compared to secondary muscle groups (bicep,tricep, save those for after your major movement. Something like starting strength, strong lifts, Madcow, 5x5 are good programs to look into for a beginner. You should be able to add 5lbs each session on your major movements. Secondary muscle groups 5lb a week. Once you hit a plateau you'll reduce the weight 10% and work back up each session. If you hit another plateau you can either only add 5lb a week for your major movements or jump into an intermediate program (Wendler 5/3/1, etc).

I would stay away from any body building type workouts until you get to intermediate type strength programs (unless competitive bodybuilding is your thing). reason is you'll slow your strength progress. You will be surprised how far newb strength gains will take you. Not trying insult you by saying newb, just that you just started getting back into things.

So what you are speaking of with "newb gains" is literally your body reaching a new homeostasis point. In which I agree to take advantage of this period of your body reaching this new homeostasis point("plateau"), but I have to disagree with staying away from "bodybuilding workouts". I always get confused when people call them that because I'm a natural bodybuilding and I squat very heavy, deadlift, and bench sometimes(although I do mainly do dumbbells admittedly). So am I a bodybuilder doing "strength workouts". No I am not, I am taking advantage of strength gains and using them on my "bodybuilding workouts". I am sorry but the majority of people would rather have greater muscle mass gains than optimal strength gains. Also, the "newb gains" are a great period to use "bodybuilding type workouts" why would you not want to OPTIMALLY gain muscle mass in the beginning of your training regimen? I am NOT saying at all that strength type workouts do not gain muscle, because obviously that is not the case but strength workouts are not in any way more optimal than bodybuilding type workouts, and honestly without a competent instructor(which are becoming increasingly more difficult to come by) throwing someone who hasn't lifted in awhile into complex movements like squads and dead normally results in bad form, too much weight, and not a complete movement. And yes "bodybuilding workouts" can be done incorrectly as well but they have much less likelyhood of bad injury. Also, I have provided videos with very detailed instructions oh how to optimally do the movement. So no OP I don't think it is more optimal in any way to avoid bodybuilding type workouts, but I do think it is great to do power movements just within your means and couple them with strict form supplementary workouts(make sure you do your power movements with correct form that is crucial to your health)


Andrew

 

[Double3]

You first problem is doing chest and arms every other day.

Are you doing legs and back?

Trying to get strong on biceps is not the way to go about it. Get strong on dead lifts, squats, rows, and dips and see how strong you get.

Olympia competitors are genetic freaks and pumping a bunch of stuff in their bodies. Not the best thing to follow what they do and expect the same.

 

[308sniper147]

You don't think that weightlifting has any affect on bone density or connective tissue strength? You might want to research that a bit more.

I think the rest of your post and videos are right on though.

My apologies, let me restate in a different manner with scientific reference, there is no scientific evidence that weight lifting heavy weights ALONE increases the bone density for sure, and is negligible for connective tissue. But weight lifting coupled with things like calcium supplementation and vitamin D supplementation made results mch more benifitial.

The study I am about to reference was only about bone density not connective tissue, so that does not address connective tissue which responds more elastically than anything to weight training.


Now this study is going from memory of my freshman final outside of class research paper so don't quote me verbatim.

But essentially 15 makes that had not worked out for around a year were put back on weight lifting programs.

5 were not allowed to takes a multivitamin and were allowed 8 ounces of milk a day. 5 others were put on a more strenuous workout regime and allowed 8 ounces of milk per day. The last five were allowed a multivitamin and 12ounces of milk per day.

The results were essentially neither workout groups without multivitamins and higher milk intake had non- "significant" gains in bone density while the groups with multivitamin containing high amounts of calcium and vitamin high more "significant" gains in bone density.


Now with that said who knows what type of programs they were on, how much weight they were using, and how high there bone density was before. These are all unaccounted for variables that must be considered.
But my personal opinion is in a NORMAL healthy 26yo the affects on bone density wouldn't be enough to deter me from going harder on particular workouts. Now an older female or male that hadn't worked out in a very long time and was of a skinny built in particular there would be some concerns. I hope this clears up my viewpoint and I respect your opinion! I just believe in a healthy 26yo it would be a nonissue.


Andrew

 

[308sniper147]

You first problem is doing chest and arms every other day.

Are you doing legs and back?

Trying to get strong on biceps is not the way to go about it. Get strong on dead lifts, squats, rows, and dips and see how strong you get.

Olympia competitors are genetic freaks and pumping a bunch of stuff in their bodies. Not the best thing to follow what they do and expect the same.

I agree with your statement of needing to be well rounded but the OP didn't state he wasn't training other areas of the body so I wasn't going to accuse lol.


Now I was waiting for the first comment about BPak being on steroids therefore making his way of working out not correct for us "less blessed" individuals. Yes without a doubt BPak is on Performance enhancing supplements, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the science behind what he is saying. If the OP expects BPak like size then I am sorry I insinuated that it would be the case, but it is completely ok to think that his style of lifting will result in optimal muscles gains when coupled with correct diet. In which I could reference more videos or help the OP out myself. So I reiterate, no matter what supplements BPak is on it takes nothing away from his words and training tips OP.


Andrew


And for the people who think you must eat 5-6 meals a day.

 

[Double3]

I agree with your statement of needing to be well rounded but the OP didn't state he wasn't training other areas of the body so I wasn't going to accuse lol.


Now I was waiting for the first comment about BPak being on steroids therefore making his way of working out not correct for us "less blessed" individuals. Yes without a doubt BPak is on Performance enhancing supplements, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the science behind what he is saying. If the OP expects BPak like size then I am sorry I insinuated that it would be the case, but it is completely ok to think that his style of lifting will result in optimal muscles gains when coupled with correct diet. In which I could reference more videos or help the OP out myself. So I reiterate, no matter what supplements BPak is on it takes nothing away from his words and training tips OP.


Andrew


And for the people who think you must eat 5-6 meals a day.

I think we both know what is going on in this situation as far as training.

I admit I didn't watch the videos but I wasn't trying to say he doesn't know what he is talking about. Guess what I was trying to say is most new lifters are looking to get big and strong fast. You have to have crazy genetics to make it in bodybuilding. Those guys walk in the gym for the first time, out lift everyone, and blow up looking at weights. Following some of their workouts will drive you straight into the ground unless you have the genetics.

BTW I basically eat all my food in about a 4 hour period. Most of it all in one sitting.

 

[308sniper147]

I think we both know what is going on in this situation as far as training.

I admit I didn't watch the videos but I wasn't trying to say he doesn't know what he is talking about. Guess what I was trying to say is most new lifters are looking to get big and strong fast. You have to have crazy genetics to make it in bodybuilding. Those guys walk in the gym for the first time, out lift everyone, and blow up looking at weights. Following some of their workouts will drive you straight into the ground unless you have the genetics.

BTW I basically eat all my food in about a 4 hour period. Most of it all in one sitting.

Wasn't directing the food comment toward you! Should've clarified that better. It had just been mentioned earlier in this thread. It is interesting that you eat it four hours. Honestly myself I normally eat 3 or 4 max during contest prep and on a rare day I'll have 4 with a snack on my bulk or maintenance phases. I know a pro physique guy named Corey hammock personally and he goes 24 hours sometimes with no food and has a "warrior feast". Pretty interesting stuff. I wouldn't ever do that simply because I don't want to but there is some data that even suggests that less meal frequency is better for overall bodyfat levels. But I digress it is incredibly hard to get someone to abandon there "fitness religion".


Andrew

 

[Double3]

Wasn't directing the food comment toward you! Should've clarified that better. It had just been mentioned earlier in this thread. It is interesting that you eat it four hours. Honestly myself I normally eat 3 or 4 max during contest prep and on a rare day I'll have 4 with a snack on my bulk or maintenance phases. I know a pro physique guy named Corey hammock personally and he goes 24 hours sometimes with no food and has a "warrior feast". Pretty interesting stuff. I wouldn't ever do that simply because I don't want to but there is some data that even suggests that less meal frequency is better for overall bodyfat levels. But I digress it is incredibly hard to get someone to abandon there "fitness religion".


Andrew

I know you were not directing it to me. Was just saying.

I follow a warrior/ lean gains type diet. Eat about anything and stay lean and mean. I was hesitant at first but once I started I knew I'd always eat like this. 4 years later still going.

We are having an convo in his thread and it is getting away from the OP....lol

 

[JBNj]

So what you are speaking of with "newb gains" is literally your body reaching a new homeostasis point. In which I agree to take advantage of this period of your body reaching this new homeostasis point("plateau"), but I have to disagree with staying away from "bodybuilding workouts". I always get confused when people call them that because I'm a natural bodybuilding and I squat very heavy, deadlift, and bench sometimes(although I do mainly do dumbbells admittedly). So am I a bodybuilder doing "strength workouts". No I am not, I am taking advantage of strength gains and using them on my "bodybuilding workouts". I am sorry but the majority of people would rather have greater muscle mass gains than optimal strength gains. Also, the "newb gains" are a great period to use "bodybuilding type workouts" why would you not want to OPTIMALLY gain muscle mass in the beginning of your training regimen? I am NOT saying at all that strength type workouts do not gain muscle, because obviously that is not the case but strength workouts are not in any way more optimal than bodybuilding type workouts, and honestly without a competent instructor(which are becoming increasingly more difficult to come by) throwing someone who hasn't lifted in awhile into complex movements like squads and dead normally results in bad form, too much weight, and not a complete movement. And yes "bodybuilding workouts" can be done incorrectly as well but they have much less likelyhood of bad injury. Also, I have provided videos with very detailed instructions oh how to optimally do the movement. So no OP I don't think it is more optimal in any way to avoid bodybuilding type workouts, but I do think it is great to do power movements just within your means and couple them with strict form supplementary workouts(make sure you do your power movements with correct form that is crucial to your health)


Andrew

Not gonna argue as i agree for the most part. Sometimes trying to get something across doesnt always come out right over the interweb. But the thing is most power/Olympic lifters are gonna do bodybuilder type workouts to induce sarcoplasmic hypertrophy (fluid around your muscle fibers,swollen puffy muscles) at times just like a bodybuilder will do strength routines to induce myofribiliated hypertrophy hypertrophy (bigger muscle fibers, denser muscles) at times. All dependent in what one goal is. I'm not saying bodybuilding is wrong but focusing on isolating muscles compared to compound movements will leave you spinning wheels.

Speaking of newb gains. I'm incline to believe building strength in the major compound movements through heavy lifting and reps low is more benificial as to what hypertrophy one is building. Compared to light high volume reps.

The smart trainee will mix between strength routines and bodybuilding routines to achieve the hypertrophy one needs. Its a balancing act and in a perfect world it would be simple. Yes a majority of people want to have big muscles( but said majority dont have a clue what it takes). But an athlete is focusing on strength cause its functional and can be applied. Puffy muscles does nothing for you unless you like wearing mankinis

 

[308sniper147]

Not gonna argue as i agree for the most part. Sometimes trying to get something across doesnt always come out right over the interweb. But the thing is most power/Olympic lifters are gonna do bodybuilder type workouts to induce sarcoplasmic hypertrophy (fluid around your muscle fibers,swollen puffy muscles) at times just like a bodybuilder will do strength routines to induce myofribiliated hypertrophy hypertrophy (bigger muscle fibers, denser muscles) at times. All dependent in what one goal is. I'm not saying bodybuilding is wrong but focusing on isolating muscles compared to compound movements will leave you spinning wheels.

Speaking of newb gains. I'm incline to believe building strength in the major compound movements through heavy lifting and reps low is more benificial as to what hypertrophy one is building. Compared to light high volume reps.

The smart trainee will mix between strength routines and bodybuilding routines to achieve the hypertrophy one needs. Its a balancing act and in a perfect world it would be simple. Yes a majority of people want to have big muscles( but said majority dont have a clue what it takes). But an athlete is focusing on strength cause its functional and can be applied. Puffy muscles does nothing for you unless you like wearing mankinis

I agree and tis why I said a good combination or both is normally ideal. With that said I do have to disagree with one thing. Puffy muscles do more than just look good in mankinis(which is a funny way to say it that is the first time I've heard someone call comp shorts that). "Puffy muscles" do wonders for self confidence, visual imagine of ones self,and how others look at you.
And yes strength matters in the gym and in the world, (and I don't think you are like this for the record) but people who say "oh I need to be big and strong so I can fight and protect myself..." Well yes strength could aid in that but you should also have more primary means of defense like a weapon and capable knife, and sometimes people go way overboard and start acting like badasses putting themselves and others in trouble(I know you've probably met someone like that) and overall give us fitness enthusiasts a bad name. Again I don't think you are like this! I'm just benign objective and stating what I've seen.
As I think you have said I recommend a good combination of both...

In the words of BPak. "Educate and dominate"

Keep on rocking,
Andrew

 

[308sniper147]

Not gonna argue as i agree for the most part. Sometimes trying to get something across doesnt always come out right over the interweb. But the thing is most power/Olympic lifters are gonna do bodybuilder type workouts to induce sarcoplasmic hypertrophy (fluid around your muscle fibers,swollen puffy muscles) at times just like a bodybuilder will do strength routines to induce myofribiliated hypertrophy hypertrophy (bigger muscle fibers, denser muscles) at times. All dependent in what one goal is. I'm not saying bodybuilding is wrong but focusing on isolating muscles compared to compound movements will leave you spinning wheels.

Speaking of newb gains. I'm incline to believe building strength in the major compound movements through heavy lifting and reps low is more benificial as to what hypertrophy one is building. Compared to light high volume reps.

The smart trainee will mix between strength routines and bodybuilding routines to achieve the hypertrophy one needs. Its a balancing act and in a perfect world it would be simple. Yes a majority of people want to have big muscles( but said majority dont have a clue what it takes). But an athlete is focusing on strength cause its functional and can be applied. Puffy muscles does nothing for you unless you like wearing mankinis

I agree and tis why I said a good combination or both is normally ideal. With that said I do have to disagree with one thing. Puffy muscles do more than just look good in mankinis(which is a funny way to say it that is the first time I've heard someone call comp shorts that). "Puffy muscles" do wonders for self confidence, visual imagine of ones self,and how others look at you.
And yes strength matters in the gym and in the world, (and I don't think you are like this for the record) but people who say "oh I need to be big and strong so I can fight and protect myself..." Well yes strength could aid in that but you should also have more primary means of defense like a weapon and capable knife, and sometimes people go way overboard and start acting like badasses putting themselves and others in trouble(I know you've probably met someone like that) and overall give us fitness enthusiasts a bad name. Again I don't think you are like this! I'm just being objective and stating what I've seen.
As I think you have said I recommend a good combination of both...

In the words of BPak. "Educate and dominate"

Keep on rocking,
Andrew

 

[JBNj]

308sniper147- mankini, banana hammock whichever you like

One thing to be said. While pro lifters/athlete have their philosophy their workouts may or may not be right for you. They have already achieved world class levels and their workouts are structured for THEM to eek out any little gains to be had. Each person has their own journey to reach their path that they choose. Workout hard, eat properly, and rest. Always push yourself hard in the gym but leave a little in the tank.

 

[KNIGHT11B4]

Tag

 

[308sniper147]

308sniper147- mankini, banana hammock whichever you like

One thing to be said. While pro lifters/athlete have their philosophy their workouts may or may not be right for you. They have already achieved world class levels and their workouts are structured for THEM to eek out any little gains to be had. Each person has their own journey to reach their path that they choose. Workout hard, eat properly, and rest. Always push yourself hard in the gym but leave a little in the tank.

I completely agree. And I'm sure as he begins to work out he will find what he likes and dislikes. Just as long as you aren't hurting yourself OP you are doing it better than most lol.


Andrew

 

[mxjunky78]

You first problem is doing chest and arms every other day.

Are you doing legs and back?

Trying to get strong on biceps is not the way to go about it. Get strong on dead lifts, squats, rows, and dips and see how strong you get.

Olympia competitors are genetic freaks and pumping a bunch of stuff in their bodies. Not the best thing to follow what they do and expect the same.

^^^^^^^+1000 on this! I started the Wendlers 5/3/1 program and never looked back. I wasn't isolating my "bi's and tri's' but they grew from the secondary work they received from chest and back workouts. Do your squats and deadlifts if you aren't already and watch the rest of your body grow! It is my understanding that working the legs releases your natural growth hormones which will increase size and strength overall.