I am wanting to build myself a rifle that I can shoot at least 3000yds-two miles(3520yds). My two picks are the 408 Cheytac or the 50BMG. I have read articles that say the big 50 loses steam around 2900yds and I have read articles that say the 408 is the way to go if two miles is on the agenda. I know the 50 BMG has more energy but it lacks velocity. This rifle will be for steel targets only. I don`t want anyless caliber and these two are my picks, nothing else! I have been shooting extreme long distance for about 4 years and my furthest hit is 2449yds with a 338 Excaliber. Now I want BIGGER. Any help would be appreciated.
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Re: 408 Cheytac or 50BMG?
.416 Barret? I heard it's the shit.
.416 Barret? I heard it's the shit.
Re: 408 Cheytac or 50BMG?
Id look at the 375 personally.
Id look at the 375 personally.
Re: 408 Cheytac or 50BMG?
id take 338 LP Mag but if i had to pick the 50 BMG way i go, but that's cause i reload, i don't know if their be much change in reloading 416 but buying factory, you might want to look at $$$ unless your pockets deep
id take 338 LP Mag but if i had to pick the 50 BMG way i go, but that's cause i reload, i don't know if their be much change in reloading 416 but buying factory, you might want to look at $$$ unless your pockets deep
Re: 408 Cheytac or 50BMG?
My 338 Excaliber beats the 338 Lapua by at least 250FPS. So that won`t do. The 416 Barrett is limited on only that Barrett makes brass and unless that changes I will never own one. The 416 Barrett has alot shorter barrel life compared to the 408 and the 50BMG. I do reload so I don`t shoot factory ammo in any of my custom rifles. The 375 Cheytac is not enough better than my excaliber to put thousands of dollars in to gain little.
My 338 Excaliber beats the 338 Lapua by at least 250FPS. So that won`t do. The 416 Barrett is limited on only that Barrett makes brass and unless that changes I will never own one. The 416 Barrett has alot shorter barrel life compared to the 408 and the 50BMG. I do reload so I don`t shoot factory ammo in any of my custom rifles. The 375 Cheytac is not enough better than my excaliber to put thousands of dollars in to gain little.
Re: 408 Cheytac or 50BMG?
You might post this in the ELR section here on the forum. Prolly get a bit more feedback.
You might post this in the ELR section here on the forum. Prolly get a bit more feedback.
Re: 408 Cheytac or 50BMG?
Between the two mentioned in the OPs post, I'd go with the Cheytac .408.
Between the two mentioned in the OPs post, I'd go with the Cheytac .408.
Re: 408 Cheytac or 50BMG?
If money or patience isn't an issue, take the .408.
But as previously mentioned I would look at the 375 as well. But between the 2 you mentioned..408
If money or patience isn't an issue, take the .408.
But as previously mentioned I would look at the 375 as well. But between the 2 you mentioned..408
Re: 408 Cheytac or 50BMG?
.375 Cheytac is the best for those distance, or so I read. I can understand not wanting less then .408. It's the reason I went with a .50 BMG (On order). Perhaps something like a DTA or EDM which is multi-caliber? I hear Bill Ritchie will make a .375 barrel for you if you buy the reamer or something along those lines.
.375 Cheytac is the best for those distance, or so I read. I can understand not wanting less then .408. It's the reason I went with a .50 BMG (On order). Perhaps something like a DTA or EDM which is multi-caliber? I hear Bill Ritchie will make a .375 barrel for you if you buy the reamer or something along those lines.
Re: 408 Cheytac or 50BMG?
You can go EDM Arms and get one of their Windrunners. One reciever will work for both 50bmg and 408 barrels. I think the rifle runs about $6750 plus shipping with the other caliber barrel/bolt/1 magazine an additional $2000
You can go EDM Arms and get one of their Windrunners. One reciever will work for both 50bmg and 408 barrels. I think the rifle runs about $6750 plus shipping with the other caliber barrel/bolt/1 magazine an additional $2000
Re: 408 Cheytac or 50BMG?
Because you reload I would go 50 and except no substitutes. I really want to try some of these. One minute 29 seconds in. They make some pretty bold claims.
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Because you reload I would go 50 and except no substitutes. I really want to try some of these. One minute 29 seconds in. They make some pretty bold claims.
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Re: 408 Cheytac or 50BMG?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matthew Lundy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Because you reload I would go 50 and except no substitutes. I really want to try some of these. One minute 29 seconds in. They make some pretty bold claims.
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You do not get those speeds from a standard 50BMG. You can get those speeds from their 20mm necked down to .510cal. I would imagine the tube life would be pretty short.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matthew Lundy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Because you reload I would go 50 and except no substitutes. I really want to try some of these. One minute 29 seconds in. They make some pretty bold claims.
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You do not get those speeds from a standard 50BMG. You can get those speeds from their 20mm necked down to .510cal. I would imagine the tube life would be pretty short.
Re: 408 Cheytac or 50BMG?
The problem is staying super sonic at those distances, don't think the 50 will do it. I have shot the 50 at a mile(1760 yds.) and it did it with no problem. I have also shot the 375 CT at 2700 yards and we did it with some but little difficulty. As I'm sure you know it's all about BC and time of flight or time spent in the atmosphere. For sure the 408 but my vote is for the 375 CT.
Good luck, sounds like fun !!
The problem is staying super sonic at those distances, don't think the 50 will do it. I have shot the 50 at a mile(1760 yds.) and it did it with no problem. I have also shot the 375 CT at 2700 yards and we did it with some but little difficulty. As I'm sure you know it's all about BC and time of flight or time spent in the atmosphere. For sure the 408 but my vote is for the 375 CT.
Good luck, sounds like fun !!
Re: 408 Cheytac or 50BMG?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 331V8</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Id look at the 375 personally. </div></div>
1+. As far as I am aware, the 375CT is still the King of the Hill.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 331V8</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Id look at the 375 personally. </div></div>
1+. As far as I am aware, the 375CT is still the King of the Hill.
Re: 408 Cheytac or 50BMG?
It's not less caliber than what you already have, but how about 338-50bmg talbot or 338 yellow bastard? Pushing a 250gr bullet at 3900ish fps.
It's not less caliber than what you already have, but how about 338-50bmg talbot or 338 yellow bastard? Pushing a 250gr bullet at 3900ish fps.
Re: 408 Cheytac or 50BMG?
I have noticed one problem with the 50BMG is nobody makes high quality brass for it. My buddy owns a 50BMG and I know military brass is everywhere but once you buy 100 pieces, you might have 25-35 that are good. If somebody made match brass for the 50, and take out some body taper, and push the 750AMAX at least 3000fps, that would be a for sure 2 mile cartridge.
I have noticed one problem with the 50BMG is nobody makes high quality brass for it. My buddy owns a 50BMG and I know military brass is everywhere but once you buy 100 pieces, you might have 25-35 that are good. If somebody made match brass for the 50, and take out some body taper, and push the 750AMAX at least 3000fps, that would be a for sure 2 mile cartridge.
Re: 408 Cheytac or 50BMG?
Hmmm, my chart says that even if you could get 3000 fps you would still fall short of 3500 yards 2 miles. My 50,s bolt would start to get real stiff after 2700 fps with a 750 Amax. But if you could get 3000 fps you should just barely make 3000 yards doing about 1068 fps with a 750 Amax (BC 1.05) or some where's close.
Anyway that's what info I have, I'm sure there's others.
I love this stuff and could talk about it all night.
Paul
Hmmm, my chart says that even if you could get 3000 fps you would still fall short of 3500 yards 2 miles. My 50,s bolt would start to get real stiff after 2700 fps with a 750 Amax. But if you could get 3000 fps you should just barely make 3000 yards doing about 1068 fps with a 750 Amax (BC 1.05) or some where's close.
Anyway that's what info I have, I'm sure there's others.
I love this stuff and could talk about it all night.
Paul
Re: 408 Cheytac or 50BMG?
A bullet doesn`t have to be supersonic to be accurate. We built a buddy of mine a 338 Titan. It pushes a 300gr bullet at 2900fps.We ran the numbers and it is supposed to lose steam about 2200yds. But that gun has hit 2449yds and here is where it gets good. At 2662yds, he never hit the man size target but with me spotting, he shot 10 times and every one missed by inches. That is over 400yds that the bullet was not supersonic.
A bullet doesn`t have to be supersonic to be accurate. We built a buddy of mine a 338 Titan. It pushes a 300gr bullet at 2900fps.We ran the numbers and it is supposed to lose steam about 2200yds. But that gun has hit 2449yds and here is where it gets good. At 2662yds, he never hit the man size target but with me spotting, he shot 10 times and every one missed by inches. That is over 400yds that the bullet was not supersonic.
Re: 408 Cheytac or 50BMG?
That's true bullet density has something to do with it but as a rule most bullet will lose there stability once they reach sub sonic speeds. That 300 gr. 338 is a long slender bullet where the .510 750 gr is not, I believe the 50 will tumble but I can't prove it. Maybe we can get so better experts to chime in, I'm sure there is some good info to learn here.
That's true bullet density has something to do with it but as a rule most bullet will lose there stability once they reach sub sonic speeds. That 300 gr. 338 is a long slender bullet where the .510 750 gr is not, I believe the 50 will tumble but I can't prove it. Maybe we can get so better experts to chime in, I'm sure there is some good info to learn here.
Re: 408 Cheytac or 50BMG?
More components available for the .50
If you were to even want to go with the .408 because you don't really mind $7 to $20 bucks each time you pull the trigger than you should go with the .375 it is the current king of the hill if money is not a problem and you can't or don't want a DD.
More components available for the .50
If you were to even want to go with the .408 because you don't really mind $7 to $20 bucks each time you pull the trigger than you should go with the .375 it is the current king of the hill if money is not a problem and you can't or don't want a DD.
Re: 408 Cheytac or 50BMG?
If my memory serves me correctly, I read an article years ago in fifty calibers assoc that talked about the late Skip Talbot and his friend shot at the ROCK, which they just kept backing up when eventually the target(ROCK) was 2 miles. They both came to the conclusion that the big fifty could do 2 miles but the verticle stringing was so bad they said 2900yds was about max. That was with the 750gr AMAX and 800gr bullets. That is why I am leaning more to the 408. Numerous people has done 2 miles with it.
If my memory serves me correctly, I read an article years ago in fifty calibers assoc that talked about the late Skip Talbot and his friend shot at the ROCK, which they just kept backing up when eventually the target(ROCK) was 2 miles. They both came to the conclusion that the big fifty could do 2 miles but the verticle stringing was so bad they said 2900yds was about max. That was with the 750gr AMAX and 800gr bullets. That is why I am leaning more to the 408. Numerous people has done 2 miles with it.
Re: 408 Cheytac or 50BMG?
I know one thing for sure about the fifty the total drop at a mile was like 80 feet, almost like artillery. You would have to have a hell of a scope with at least a 60 moa base just to have enough adjustment for 2 miles. Anyway back to 338 what was the twist rate on that rifle, I know that the faster twist will stabilize bullets at slower speed. Same as shooting sub sonics thru silencers.
I know one thing for sure about the fifty the total drop at a mile was like 80 feet, almost like artillery. You would have to have a hell of a scope with at least a 60 moa base just to have enough adjustment for 2 miles. Anyway back to 338 what was the twist rate on that rifle, I know that the faster twist will stabilize bullets at slower speed. Same as shooting sub sonics thru silencers.
Re: 408 Cheytac or 50BMG?
The barrel on the 338 Titan was a Schneider 10 twist. 300gr Berger`s at 2900FPS. As far as scopes, most high end scopes will get you there, if you have enough base. Instead of zeroing at 100 yds, zero it at 1 mile. Go with 1 degree (60min) or 2 degree (120min) base, make sure the base is thick enough so when you look through scope you don`t see muzzlebrake. Also Barrett makes rings that I think have 20-40min adjustment by moving pin around. Ivy ring-base combo works too.
The barrel on the 338 Titan was a Schneider 10 twist. 300gr Berger`s at 2900FPS. As far as scopes, most high end scopes will get you there, if you have enough base. Instead of zeroing at 100 yds, zero it at 1 mile. Go with 1 degree (60min) or 2 degree (120min) base, make sure the base is thick enough so when you look through scope you don`t see muzzlebrake. Also Barrett makes rings that I think have 20-40min adjustment by moving pin around. Ivy ring-base combo works too.
Re: 408 Cheytac or 50BMG?
Yeah bullets will go along way, good luck to you.
Yeah bullets will go along way, good luck to you.
Re: 408 Cheytac or 50BMG?
What will the 375CT do that the 408CT can`t do? It might be faster, but what does that matter.
What will the 375CT do that the 408CT can`t do? It might be faster, but what does that matter.
Re: 408 Cheytac or 50BMG?
I happen to HAVE a .408 from EDM for sale if you are interested...
I happen to HAVE a .408 from EDM for sale if you are interested...
Re: 408 Cheytac or 50BMG?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: excaliber</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What will the 375CT do that the 408CT can`t do? It might be faster, but what does that matter.</div></div>
Look at the ballistic tables - it carries the distance better than the .408.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: excaliber</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What will the 375CT do that the 408CT can`t do? It might be faster, but what does that matter.</div></div>
Look at the ballistic tables - it carries the distance better than the .408.
Re: 408 Cheytac or 50BMG?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: excaliber</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have noticed one problem with the 50BMG is nobody makes high quality brass for it. My buddy owns a 50BMG and I know military brass is everywhere but once you buy 100 pieces, you might have 25-35 that are good. If somebody made match brass for the 50, and take out some body taper, and push the 750AMAX at least 3000fps, that would be a for sure 2 mile cartridge. </div></div>
Barrett does...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: excaliber</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have noticed one problem with the 50BMG is nobody makes high quality brass for it. My buddy owns a 50BMG and I know military brass is everywhere but once you buy 100 pieces, you might have 25-35 that are good. If somebody made match brass for the 50, and take out some body taper, and push the 750AMAX at least 3000fps, that would be a for sure 2 mile cartridge. </div></div>
Barrett does...
Tag
Lapua just started making brass for the 50
Products - Lapua
I load RWS brass, which so far has proven itself to be very consistent.
I've shot out to a 1 mile, 2 seems like a bit for the 50 IMO.
I'm patiently waiting for my 375CT rifle to get built. stay tuned.....
ken
The 408 has amazing reviews. What does anybody know about the 50-20mm or the big russian 14.5 x 114? The 14.5 pushes a 1000 grain bullet at 3300 fps. Sounds like an awesome round for long range, if you can stand to shoot it.........
.375CT outperforms .408CT at distance, just so you know. 50-20mm is a crazy barrel burner, but with impressive ballistics. And yes, the 14.5 Soviet would make an impressive ELR round for HTI applications, which is why it's the most popular variant of the NTW-20. The big downside is that it's classified as a DD in nearly every jurisdiction.
Glad I figured that out before I put my .408 Wildcat together! Buy once! Cry once!
Good info. You lost me with the comment about "DD"?
Well no one has said it so I will... the 408 is a great round no doubt... BUT the craze of how it stays so accurate at extreame long range has to do with the specific bullet they developed to shoot through the specific barrel they developed along with it... just chambering a rifle in 408 ct does not give you the awesome 408 ct rave. It is a special barrel and special round made by cheytac (if you can get one... and who knows a price if you can)...
So with that said in order to have that awesome performing round in 408 ct you would have to be able to get your hands on and afford the rifle from cheytac theirself... no other manufacturers can produce or do produce those components that I know of...
Just my .02
So with that said in order to have that awesome performing round in 408 ct you would have to be able to get your hands on and afford the rifle from cheytac theirself... no other manufacturers can produce or do produce those components that I know of...
Just my .02
FYI - My understanding is that the Cheytac Intervention Rifle, was produced originally by EDM and then by other manufacturers that violated EDM's patents. There is no special secret sauce in producing a .408 CT barrel. That would kind of be like saying that only Hornady could produce the best barrels for their 6.5 Creedmoor caliber that they came up with, when they don't produce any barrels of their own. There are plenty of companies that can produce a fantastic barrel and bullets for the CT. EDM for example EDM still makes a .408 variant of this rifle.
To the OP - If you are torn on the caliber, get a switch caliber rifle like a DT HTI or an EDM Windrunner. I hope to get into the big bore ELR game one day (three young kids, a mortgage and leaving a career to start my own company are keeping me from pulling the trigger on one right now). With all the reading and research that I have done on these calibers, I would go for the 375 CT.
I happen to have (2) DT HTI Chassis in stock right now with 50 BMG and 375 CT conversions for them.
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Actually, what he's referring to is the LRBT bore spec that was developed by Barney Lawton back around 2005, specifically for the LRBT solids the .408CT was designed to shoot. When Barney was still around you could order barrels made to that spec that would make those solid sail, but I think that's lost to history now. Maybe the newest iteration of Cheytac is making rifles with that bore spec because they seem to be still making the LRBT solids? Some people can get them to work in their non-Cheytac barrels, but others have zero luck.
Either of your picks would be good. I would do a 375 cheytac.
Cheaper bullets, supersonic to 2 miles. Actually read a story about a guy shooting two miles with the 375 cheytac with really good results.
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Cheaper bullets, supersonic to 2 miles. Actually read a story about a guy shooting two miles with the 375 cheytac with really good results.
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I love my 50BMG but I'm really wanting a 375CT in a DT HTI. Just sayin'
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The only thing those 50s and 408s have on the 375 cheytac is energy.
350 mk has over a .9 bc.
338 snipetac is another high velocity high bc round that would be fun. Plus lots of factory bullets for less than $1 each.
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350 mk has over a .9 bc.
338 snipetac is another high velocity high bc round that would be fun. Plus lots of factory bullets for less than $1 each.
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338 Snipetac is also very tempting to me. Too many decisions and not enough money.
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Not to hijack but can anybody make a list of suitable actions for cheytac cartridges? I assume the list will be fairly short.
Is there a factory action that could be used? That may be a dumb question but want to know my options.
Thimking of selling my 338 lapua to build a 375
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Is there a factory action that could be used? That may be a dumb question but want to know my options.
Thimking of selling my 338 lapua to build a 375
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