I have 16" LMT with CL barrel that I'm considering a trade or selling to acquire a 16" OBR. Just wanted thoughts on if you guys who have more knowledge of both think its a good or bad idea. Main reason I would do this is to get better accuracy but not sure if the OBR would be any better or not. So my debate would be keep the LMT and search for a 18" ss barrel or get the OBR (and no I can't afford to have both). Currently with the 16" CL im getting .8 to 1 Moa groups with 175 FGMM when I'm having a real good day. I think these groups might be better when my skills improve this my first "precision rifle" and I have a lot to learn and after some research found that gas guns prob aren't the easiest thing to learn on but I'm trying my best and having a great time in the process. My current set up is LMT MWS with SWFA SS 10x in bobro mount with Atlas bipod using 175 FGMM I have been shooting prone with bipod and rear sand bag. Any thoughts on this or any advice for running a gas gun are greatly appreciated.
- Thread starter ncbmx64
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If your getting .8 to 1 moa with the CL barrel I would say that's pretty good. Mine shoots about 1.5. I've seen groups of the obr around the .5 range but I don't think it's worth the trade in your case, especially if you think your capable of eventually shooting better with your LMT.
that's what I get with my LMT...... about .8 to 1moa ON AVERAGE
it's about the best you will get with an LMT and will be hard pressed to see better with another brand rifle
it's about the best you will get with an LMT and will be hard pressed to see better with another brand rifle
I owned both... Both are a quality kit... BUT the OBR was hands down the performer. The LMT was heavy, semi accurate (moa) and less desirable. Be prepared to spend another 1k-1.5k for an OBR). The only semi that I'd compare to my OBR would be a JP I once owned.
If its important to you to own an OBR, pull the trigger. I'm pretty sure you'll see the difference between the two (consider a JP as well).
best of luck
If its important to you to own an OBR, pull the trigger. I'm pretty sure you'll see the difference between the two (consider a JP as well).
best of luck
Given your experience level I'm not sure there's a enough to gain that you should be in a hurry to trade up....not that you're likely to find a LaRue readily available anyway. Spend the money on ammo and training. When you reach a high enough level of proficiency you'll have the experience to easily make these decisions for yourself.
Not bad shooting from you. Ive seen people say the LMT SS barrels are a marked improvement. If you can get below .8 will an OBR do any better for you?
Regards the trade your desire will decide. If it cost you any more than the price of a SS LMT barrel I don't think you will get more accuracy for your dollar.
Are you shooting the stock MWS two stage? Its not a bad trigger so I wouldn't think you will be getting much changing it but I do have a flat shoe Giessele in mine (can never remember the nomenclature) and I note it is a cleaner trigger than the MWS standard. You seem to be on the road to shooting good enough that you may actually squeeze something out of a trigger change.
I think rifles are like motorcycles the initial big jump in horsepower/accuracy is relatively cheap for gain. Getting the last few drips of horsepower/accuracy start to get expensive though relative to gain. Going from your (insert previous rifle here) to the LMT was your relatively cheap gain in accuracy. Now to get a .1 or so improvement shit like barrels and triggers will cost you. Id say your real gain at this point will be consistency over accuracy. Those .8's will be more often than the 1.0's.
Just my thoughts.
Regards the trade your desire will decide. If it cost you any more than the price of a SS LMT barrel I don't think you will get more accuracy for your dollar.
Are you shooting the stock MWS two stage? Its not a bad trigger so I wouldn't think you will be getting much changing it but I do have a flat shoe Giessele in mine (can never remember the nomenclature) and I note it is a cleaner trigger than the MWS standard. You seem to be on the road to shooting good enough that you may actually squeeze something out of a trigger change.
I think rifles are like motorcycles the initial big jump in horsepower/accuracy is relatively cheap for gain. Getting the last few drips of horsepower/accuracy start to get expensive though relative to gain. Going from your (insert previous rifle here) to the LMT was your relatively cheap gain in accuracy. Now to get a .1 or so improvement shit like barrels and triggers will cost you. Id say your real gain at this point will be consistency over accuracy. Those .8's will be more often than the 1.0's.
Just my thoughts.
I've owned the 16" MWS, and the 16" OBR. Both are great rifles.
I think the MWS bolt is a superior design. The captured firing pin retaining pin on the MWS is much easier to work with. Cleaning the MWS bolt is much easier. The double ejectors are also really nice, unless you are trying to reload.
The OBR balances quite a bit better than the MWS. Also the hard coat finish is much more attractive and smooth on the OBR. The circular hand guard is really nice to hold, and very easy to grip. The 20MOA top rail is slightly taller than a normal picatinny rail, so you may need to find a stock with a adjustable cheek piece. If I were to get a OBR again I think I would get the 18" barrel. The longer gas system can't hurt, and the PST selector on the 18" barrel is much easier to manipulate.
Both the MWS, and OBR have been 100% with ammunition all the way up to 168grain. I haven't had much luck with 175grain ammunition with the MWS or the OBR. I kept getting pierced primers.
I think the MWS bolt is a superior design. The captured firing pin retaining pin on the MWS is much easier to work with. Cleaning the MWS bolt is much easier. The double ejectors are also really nice, unless you are trying to reload.
The OBR balances quite a bit better than the MWS. Also the hard coat finish is much more attractive and smooth on the OBR. The circular hand guard is really nice to hold, and very easy to grip. The 20MOA top rail is slightly taller than a normal picatinny rail, so you may need to find a stock with a adjustable cheek piece. If I were to get a OBR again I think I would get the 18" barrel. The longer gas system can't hurt, and the PST selector on the 18" barrel is much easier to manipulate.
Both the MWS, and OBR have been 100% with ammunition all the way up to 168grain. I haven't had much luck with 175grain ammunition with the MWS or the OBR. I kept getting pierced primers.
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The .8 groups are def not my avg groups that's when I'm shooting my best my but It does show me the rifle can do it and the hindering factor is me. Yes im using the stock trigger and have been considering a Geissele but haven't figured out which one I want yet still researching. Was considering the OBR since there is one locally for sale and have had offers on my LMT. But it sounds like they will both produce similar accuracy. So would it be worth it to buy a ss barrel and better trigger
Well, put it this way.....
There will always be a "shooter" factor when producing good groups,,,,, especially with a .308 AR = very very hard....
Regardless, we are now on round 3 of the shootout threads with numerous obr's from the start of round#1 from different people across the united states. Which also includes MANY high end .308 AR's from GAP, LMT, JP, blah blah blah... You can check the info yourself. I have only seen maybe 1, possibly 2 people, out of MANY shooters later produce an average better than .7 with an OBR or any other "high end" .308 AR to matter (in which most people are posting their very very best when they are getting to this level of participation.... all planets & stars in alignment type shit which doesn't happen often). Shooting a .308 AR IS NOT like shooting a 5.56 AR... it is MUCH HARDER by far. You would be amazing how the lower caliber AR's like the 5.56 smoke .308 AR's in terms of accuracy AT 100YARDS..... It has been proven by many people and thousands of rounds down range across 3 total 100yard shootout threads. Don't believe me, go check for yourself.
I think everyone needs to get this false image out of their mind that if their .308 AR (regardless of manufacture) doesn't print a .5,,,,,, heck even .75 5shot group every single time they pull the trigger they need to send it back or sell it. That is why I always say, be happy if you even get sub-moa on average........ as getting "sub-moa" all day long is hard enough.... especially with a big caliber .308 AR semi-auto... There is just something mind bending about shooting a .308 AR in comparison to a bolt action. That little fucking bullet doesn't always go where you want it to when you pull the trigger with a .308 AR = it is fucking hard! damn that first or last round flier and even to this day it still drives me nuts!
There will always be a "shooter" factor when producing good groups,,,,, especially with a .308 AR = very very hard....
Regardless, we are now on round 3 of the shootout threads with numerous obr's from the start of round#1 from different people across the united states. Which also includes MANY high end .308 AR's from GAP, LMT, JP, blah blah blah... You can check the info yourself. I have only seen maybe 1, possibly 2 people, out of MANY shooters later produce an average better than .7 with an OBR or any other "high end" .308 AR to matter (in which most people are posting their very very best when they are getting to this level of participation.... all planets & stars in alignment type shit which doesn't happen often). Shooting a .308 AR IS NOT like shooting a 5.56 AR... it is MUCH HARDER by far. You would be amazing how the lower caliber AR's like the 5.56 smoke .308 AR's in terms of accuracy AT 100YARDS..... It has been proven by many people and thousands of rounds down range across 3 total 100yard shootout threads. Don't believe me, go check for yourself.
I think everyone needs to get this false image out of their mind that if their .308 AR (regardless of manufacture) doesn't print a .5,,,,,, heck even .75 5shot group every single time they pull the trigger they need to send it back or sell it. That is why I always say, be happy if you even get sub-moa on average........ as getting "sub-moa" all day long is hard enough.... especially with a big caliber .308 AR semi-auto... There is just something mind bending about shooting a .308 AR in comparison to a bolt action. That little fucking bullet doesn't always go where you want it to when you pull the trigger with a .308 AR = it is fucking hard! damn that first or last round flier and even to this day it still drives me nuts!
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A better trigger really helped my LMT MWS groups. In my case I used the JP reduced power trigger spring kit. Trigger pull went to just under 4lbs. Groups went from 1.3 moa to just under 1 moa. On an Armalite AR 10A4 it didn't help much so I put a Geissele SSA-E which really helped a lot. The AR10A4 I had had the heaviest trigger I have ever had on any weapon, 10 lbs. Groups were around 2". With the SSA-E groups hover around 1 moa.
