.300WM 1-13 twist

[wilwith1l]

I currently have an order in with Boots Obermeyer for a 26" 1-13 .30 cal barrel that I plan to go .300 Win Mag with.

Does anyone have experience with a 1-13 rate? I plan on throwing light bullets (175s), but what do you guys think is the heaviest bullet i could throw with that slow twist, when I want to reach out?

 

[Graham]

It depends.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

190-200's no problem. After that it gets dicey.

 

[wilwith1l]

190-200's no problem. After that it gets dicey.

That's very reassuring. I would like to finish the barrel at 22", but I'm gonna wait and see what kind of numbers I get out of the 26" first.

 

[mallrat]

It depends.

No shit.

Q.C. should have sent post that back for elaboration.
What does "It" depend on? Velocity, altitude, barometric pressure? How does it depend on these, or other, factors? Without these details "It depends" merely serves to pad the ol' post count.

 

[wilwith1l]

^^^ You said what I was thinking.

 

[Graham]

.300WM 1-13 twist

No shit.

Q.C. should have sent post that back for elaboration.

What does "It" depend on? Velocity, altitude, barometric pressure? How does it depend on these, or other, factors? Without these details "It depends" merely serves to pad the ol' post count.

Not if you read first. Then post.

Besides, there's no reason to pad my post count: Frank sets it to whatever he wants it to be.

^^^ You said what I was thinking.

Then you weren't thinking.

 

[mallrat]

So you meant to say, "Try checking in the reloading forum", but Tapatalk changed that to "It depends"? I guess that makes more sense. That is, if you're actually trying to change their behavior rather than just display yourself being an ass. If you're just trying to be an ass, "It depends" is a splendid post.

 

[briang7511]

What distance do you consider reaching out?

 

[MontanaMarine]

1/10 twist opens a lot of doors without closing any.

 

[wilwith1l]

I'm looking to get out to 1200 at least, and I want to, primarily, load light bullets.

The 1/13 was Boots Obermeyer's recommendation for light loads, and I after talking to him I would really like to see what can be done with a 1/13
Worse case scenario: I get no stability at range and end up chopping it to 22".

 

[wadcutter]

I can get to 1200 with 155gn target bullets out of my .308 with 1 : 12 twist so you should get there easy with a 1 : 13 twist and a .300
WM

 

[Graham]

.300WM 1-13 twist

So you meant to say, "Try checking in the reloading forum", but Tapatalk changed that to "It depends"? If you're just trying to be an ass, "It depends" is a splendid post.

If you are trying to be a moderator, using other people's threads for personal attacks against me is the wrong way to go about it.

 

[MontanaMarine]

I'm looking to get out to 1200 at least, and I want to, primarily, load light bullets. .....Worse case scenario: I get no stability at range and end up chopping it to 22".

A 300 Winmag twisted 1/13 for 155s is like plugging one nostril on a racehorse. Having the same in a 22" barrel is an even worse goatphuck.

If you are serious of going to "1200 at least" 155s are not the best choice, nor even close. You should be thinking 215 Berger, 220 SMK, 208 AMax, and similar.

The 155 will get there, but compared to the heavies it's gonna get spanked by the wind.

If you are thinking light bullet for recoil reasons, do yourself a favor and get a 6.5 Creedmoor, or similar, and launch 140s at 2800 fps. A 6.5 launching a 140 at 2800 fps, will have more velocity, more energy, less drift, at 1200, than a typical 155 started at 3200 fps. And it will be a pleasure to shoot.



Don't be in a hurry to make a bad decision.

 

[MontanaMarine]

I'm looking to get out to 1200 at least, and I want to, primarily, load light bullets. .....Worse case scenario: I get no stability at range and end up chopping it to 22".

A 300 Winmag twisted 1/13 for 155s is like plugging one nostril on a racehorse. Having the same in a 22" barrel is an even worse goatphuck.

If you are serious of going to "1200 at least" 155s are not the best choice, nor even close. You should be thinking 215 Berger, 220 SMK, 208 AMax, and similar.

The 155 will get there, but compared to the heavies it's gonna get spanked by the wind.

If you are thinking light bullet for recoil reasons, do yourself a favor and get a 6.5 Creedmoor, or similar, and launch 140s at 2800 fps. A 6.5 launching a 140 at 2800 fps, will have more velocity, more energy, less drift, at 1200, than a typical 155 started at 3200 fps. And it will be a pleasure to shoot.



Don't be in a hurry to make a bad decision.

 

[wilwith1l]

If you are serious of going to "1200 at least" 155s are not the best choice, nor even close. You should be thinking 215 Berger, 220 SMK, 208 AMax, and similar.

The 155 will get there, but compared to the heavies it's gonna get spanked by the wind.

I've, literally, never said anything about 155s.

As I mentioned in my original post, "I plan on throwing light bullets (175s), but what do you guys think is the heaviest bullet i could throw with that slow twist, when I want to reach out?"

So, as you can see, I understand the ballistic advantages of heavier bullets. My question is not, "How far can I reach with 155". The question is, "(W)hat do you guys think is the heaviest bullet (I) could throw with (1/13 twist)?"

Since the question was missed, I will try to ask it in a different way:
Given: One Obermyer, 5R, 1/13 twist, 26" barrel, chambered in .300WM
Based on your education and experience, what do you believe is the heaviest projectile that could be fired from this barrel that will maintain stability and consistency out to, at least, 1200 yds?

I'm also not asking about what I can do with a 6.5, I am fully aware of the capabilities.
Thanks for your time and attention.

 

[Shoalwater]

It will depend a lot on what type of bullet you shoot. If shooting VLD's with secant ogives probably 175gr maybe the 185 hybrids. If you shoot something with a tangent ogive 185gr maybe 200gr.

 

[MontanaMarine]

175gr will likely be about as heavy as you can go at 1/13.

There's a stability calculator you can crunch some numbers through here, that will give you some feedback,

JBM - Calculations - Stability

I heard your question clearly enough. I focused on to 155gr because that weight bullet is known to shine at 1/13 twist.

 

[MontanaMarine]

Always funny when someone like the OP doesn't know enough about a rifle that he is compelled to post these kind of queries, then comes across indignant when sound advice is offered.

Anyway, I'm done here.

 

[briang7511]

Please feel free to post any info or pm me as I am curios how this combo works for you. Good luck. I am building a 300wm with a 1 in 9 twist and plan to shoot the heavies 230s and 240s out as far as I can get em. Other end of the spectrum but I will be happy to share as well.

 

[Wildboarem]

I own a .300 WBY 26" 1/10. I know Weatherby designed this caliber to shoot 200+gr bullets. Weatherby made rifles with a 1/12 barrel for a while and it was a disaster. Sales dropped as "real" world accuracy was horrible with anything over 180gr. They then went to the standard 1/10. My WBY will shoot everything from 165- 230 in a 1/10, why go with a twist that will only narrow your window of choices? As it was said earlier. You "may" be able to stabilize a 200gr class bullet, but you may not also. I know a lot of 6mm 1/9.25 twist barrels that can stabilize a 105gr bullet and a lot that can't. Is it worth the risk? Will Boot's replace your barrel if it doesn't?

 

[Emouse]

1-13??? I am amazed anyone would recommend that rate of twist for either 155 or for that matter 175-210 Range of bullets.

175 is going lightweight in a .300WM and for most ULD/VLD needs a 10 twist.

If you want to shoot 155's you have the wrong calibre for that .

 

[Wildboarem]

1-13??? I am amazed anyone would recommend that rate of twist for either 155 or for that matter 175-210 Range of bullets.

175 is going lightweight in a .300WM and for most ULD/VLD needs a 10 twist.

If you want to shoot 155's you have the wrong calibre for that .

OP never said he wants to shoot 155's, but even at 175 I agree with your conclusion.

 

[wilwith1l]

Will Boot's replace your barrel if it doesn't?

I'm not worried about the cost of 1 barrel. The funstration of trying to find a load for it will be well worth it.

If I wanted to do what everyone was doing I could just buy a shelf gun.
I asked Boot's: What's the slowest I can spin a 168 or 175 SMK (but I may want to go heavier) in a .300WM. He told me that I would be fine with 1/13 and if I wanted to play it safe go with a 1/10.

Worst case: I'm out 1 barrel, but I learn a bit about what can be done with 1/13.


Sent from my Sega Dreamcast using Tapatalk

 

[Jon Lester]

I know it has little to do with your endeavor to push light bullets but: I built my 300 on a Pierce action with an Oby 10 twist, to date it fires everything I have fed it including the .mil 220s. With a 10 twist,if for some reason the lighter things dont work out to your needs, your set for a good long distance capable 300 win mag.

 

[10fp]

I don't think the op is really asking for advice or listening for that matter

 

[Bigwheels]

I guess that as long as the OP is cool with wasting money on barrels I could use a spare for my 300. I'll take mine in a 1:10" though. Thanks.

 

[Aimsmall55]

I'm not worried about the cost of 1 barrel. The funstration of trying to find a load for it will be well worth it.

If I wanted to do what everyone was doing I could just buy a shelf gun.
I asked Boot's: What's the slowest I can spin a 168 or 175 SMK (but I may want to go heavier) in a .300WM. He told me that I would be fine with 1/13 and if I wanted to play it safe go with a 1/10.

Worst case: I'm out 1 barrel, but I learn a bit about what can be done with 1/13.


Sent from my Sega Dreamcast using Tapatalk

I got to ask... (May have missed it) but why did you go with a 1:13? That's like a Palma bbl for the .308's for the 155's. As for being out a bbl... Your also out powder bullets brass and valuable TIME. It may shoot the 175 but I've got a 1:11.25 on my ftr gun and the 185 is "pushing it " in terms of stability. It shoots the 185 Berger OTM but will BARELY shoot the Hybrid just because its so much longer. If you do have luck with a 200+ bullet I would be very interested because it basically would rewrite the theory of fast twists stabilizing big bullets. There's a reason Berger puts recommended twist rates on their boxes. It's not always right because that really depends on the load and the gun itself. But for the most part I'd say you just wasted $. That's just my opinion though. I really hope it works for ya.

 

[Wildboarem]

I don't think the op is really asking for advice or listening for that matter

+1. I guess I'm weird but I never quite understood someone posting a "question" when they have already made up their mind. I know it was originally posed as "does anyone have any experience with a 1/13?". I just find it frustrating on this site that a lot of threads are poo-pooed on by posters or a situation like this. This site has so much knowledge and wisdom, it just sucks to see it wasted.

 

[Aimsmall55]

+1. I guess I'm weird but I never quite understood someone posting a "question" when they have already made up their mind. I know it was originally posed as "does anyone have any experience with a 1/13?". I just find it frustrating on this site that a lot of threads are poo-pooed on by posters or a situation like this. This site has so much knowledge and wisdom, it just sucks to see it wasted.

Ok here is a direct answer to the original post. You won't find anyone on this forum who has a 1:13 twist bbl on any .300 win mag. Heaviest you can go depends but I'd say anything over a 190 smk at THE MOST is not going to shoot very well. I hope you can shoot bigger!!! But you still never answered me. WHY A 1:13 twist to begin with ??

 

[Bigwheels]

I don't know anyone with a 1:13" tw brl on a 308 let alone a 300WM. The only reason I see to go that way is if you wanted a 30 cal varmint rig for light bullets @ stupid high speed. But can't think of any reason to do that either.

 

[Phezzik]

It never seizes to amaze me how big a group of douche's we are. Someone asks a question, and instead of just manning up to it and saying "we don't know" (since after 7 years on this forum I've learned that most people are afraid to admit that they don't know the answer to something), or answering the question directly, we get insightful responses such as " it depends", or "get a 6.5 creed" (which I have also learned is the answer to every shooters question, no matter what it is). Then the conversations turns to attacking the OP, no matter the subject, for asking a "stupid question". If he knew the answer then he wouldn't be asking it, or maybe he just wants some opinion from fellow members who he assumes are more knowledgeable than he is. Nope. We dance around the question then call him out on it. How about for once, hold your post unless you have something worth sharing? Call me crazy, but Snipers Hide wouldn't look like such a big pile of dick bags if we were more civil to eachother.

And for the record, to the OP, I DON'T KNOW. I run 1:10 on both my .300's (24" and 26"), which like 190-208's. I don't have any experience with a 1:13 .300 WM.

Ok, I'm done ranting. Let the attacks begin.

 

[MontanaMarine]

There's a reason nobody has much in the way of firsthand experience with 1/13 300 WinMags, here in the ELR subforum.

I'd say the responses are all pretty honest, and in the spirit of being helpful.

 

[Bigwheels]

I believe the OP got his honest answers in the first few responses. But apparently decided to ignore the collective wisdom provided.

 

[Aimsmall55]

It never seizes to amaze me how big a group of douche's we are. Someone asks a question, and instead of just manning up to it and saying "we don't know" (since after 7 years on this forum I've learned that most people are afraid to admit that they don't know the answer to something), or answering the question directly, we get insightful responses such as " it depends", or "get a 6.5 creed" (which I have also learned is the answer to every shooters question, no matter what it is). Then the conversations turns to attacking the OP, no matter the subject, for asking a "stupid question". If he knew the answer then he wouldn't be asking it, or maybe he just wants some opinion from fellow members who he assumes are more knowledgeable than he is. Nope. We dance around the question then call him out on it. How about for once, hold your post unless you have something worth sharing? Call me crazy, but Snipers Hide wouldn't look like such a big pile of dick bags if we were more civil to eachother.

And for the record, to the OP, I DON'T KNOW. I run 1:10 on both my .300's (24" and 26"), which like 190-208's. I don't have any experience with a 1:13 .300 WM.

Ok, I'm done ranting. Let the attacks begin.

Looks like your the one who needs to quit acting like the one youve just described as the "TYPICAL HIDE MEMBER" and realize that we weren't trying to haze the op. He asked a question, I answered THAT I WOULD ASSUME THAT IT WOULD NOT SHOOT ANYTHING OVER 190. I'm not responsible for what other people post... But for you to sit here and call us "Dick bags" is pretty condescending. Your the one jumping on us telling us what pieces of crap we are. If you don't like SH, that's your thing, but as for me, an ELR gun in .300 win with anything short of a 1:10 is unacceptable.
Btw, I own a 6.5 creedmor and LOVE IT .... Here's why alot of of people reccomend that piece of shit round.





Factory ammo... 5 at 120 yards


So maybe you ought to quit being such a jack ass and attacking people who are trying to help.

 

[Wildboarem]

It never seizes to amaze me how big a group of douche's we are. Someone asks a question, and instead of just manning up to it and saying "we don't know" (since after 7 years on this forum I've learned that most people are afraid to admit that they don't know the answer to something), or answering the question directly, we get insightful responses such as " it depends", or "get a 6.5 creed" (which I have also learned is the answer to every shooters question, no matter what it is). Then the conversations turns to attacking the OP, no matter the subject, for asking a "stupid question". If he knew the answer then he wouldn't be asking it, or maybe he just wants some opinion from fellow members who he assumes are more knowledgeable than he is. Nope. We dance around the question then call him out on it. How about for once, hold your post unless you have something worth sharing? Call me crazy, but Snipers Hide wouldn't look like such a big pile of dick bags if we were more civil to eachother.

And for the record, to the OP, I DON'T KNOW. I run 1:10 on both my .300's (24" and 26"), which like 190-208's. I don't have any experience with a 1:13 .300 WM.

Ok, I'm done ranting. Let the attacks begin.

Well maybe the OP can get every member of the Hide to answer "I don't know". If one solicits an opinion on a subject that is way out of the norm, there can reasonably be an expectation that some of the opinions may not be normal, or what the OP may want to hear. He's been referred to jbm to do some research himself, haven't heard back from the OP that he has. We don't know what bullets he want to shoot or how far, but may may want to stretch it out?with something heavier? It is actually a pretty ridiculous question on this site. BOOTS is a world class barrel maker, wouldn't he be the one to ask? Not one factory rifle offers that twist, that I know of or ever has. I don't think there is one member on this site that has actual experience with a 1/13 .300 WM. So I tried to share what experience and knowledge I have and so have others. And I'll take the CM and raise you a .260.


Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2

 

[Dallas4rceMarine]

I think his question was turned into other recommendations because nobody has a 1:13 twist 300. I called Bartlein and asked "with the added velocity of a 300WSM compared to my 308 what is the slowest twist I could put in my 300WSM and still be good with 175-200gr bullets?" I was thinking that because my 1:11.25 308 was so good with 175 that instead of a 1:10 300wsm I could use a 1:11.25 and still shoot 180-200gr bullets. He told me he doesn't recommend anything over 180gr in a 1:11.25 even in a 300 so I went with the 1:10.

To compare that back to the OP's question he mentioned the 175 in a 1:13 and from what I have been told the 175 is already pushing it for that twist, hence why people brought up the 155 which does better in the 1:13.

 

[Phezzik]

Looks like your the one who needs to quit acting like the one youve just described as the "TYPICAL HIDE MEMBER" and realize that we weren't trying to haze the op. He asked a question, I answered THAT I WOULD ASSUME THAT IT WOULD NOT SHOOT ANYTHING OVER 190. I'm not responsible for what other people post... But for you to sit here and call us "Dick bags" is pretty condescending. Your the one jumping on us telling us what pieces of crap we are. If you don't like SH, that's your thing, but as for me, an ELR gun in .300 win with anything short of a 1:10 is unacceptable.
Btw, I own a 6.5 creedmor and LOVE IT .... Here's why alot of of people reccomend that piece of shit round.





Factory ammo... 5 at 120 yards


So maybe you ought to quit being such a jack ass and attacking people who are trying to help.

Easy there killer. I never said that every response was unhelpful and full of smart ass remarks. And if you read through my post I also never said that the 6.5 Creed was a "piece of shit round". I shot mine too well when I had it to refer to it as such. It was the general response, and it's not just to this question. If you read through all the topic posts throughout this site where someone asks a question that is deemed a "stupid question", the response is always the same. Quit taking my opinion personally, as it was not an attack against you, or anyone else that gave a worthwhile response. I understand that people aren't generally going to have experience with a 1:13" barrel on a .300, but that doesn't mean we have to give him vague one liners or tell him to get a different caliber since someone assumed he was shooting 155's (even though he stated a general bullet weight, even if the type wasn't specified). I applaud him for trying out something different. How do we know how well it will or will not work unless someone actually does it? Obviously the math and theory doesn't add up, as the general idea is the heavier the bullet the tighter the twist, but we'll never know unless someone tries.

 

[wilwith1l]

I think his question was turned into other recommendations because nobody has a 1:13 twist 300. I called Bartlein and asked "with the added velocity of a 300WSM compared to my 308 what is the slowest twist I could put in my 300WSM and still be good with 175-200gr bullets?" I was thinking that because my 1:11.25 308 was so good with 175 that instead of a 1:10 300wsm I could use a 1:11.25 and still shoot 180-200gr bullets. He told me he doesn't recommend anything over 180gr in a 1:11.25 even in a 300 so I went with the 1:10.

To compare that back to the OP's question he mentioned the 175 in a 1:13 and from what I have been told the 175 is already pushing it for that twist, hence why people brought up the 155 which does better in the 1:13.

I appreciate your informed response that addresses the original question.

 

[wilwith1l]

I got to ask... (May have missed it) but why did you go with a 1:13? That's like a Palma bbl for the .308's for the 155's. As for being out a bbl... Your also out powder bullets brass and valuable TIME. It may shoot the 175 but I've got a 1:11.25 on my ftr gun and the 185 is "pushing it " in terms of stability. It shoots the 185 Berger OTM but will BARELY shoot the Hybrid just because its so much longer. If you do have luck with a 200+ bullet I would be very interested because it basically would rewrite the theory of fast twists stabilizing big bullets. There's a reason Berger puts recommended twist rates on their boxes. It's not always right because that really depends on the load and the gun itself. But for the most part I'd say you just wasted $. That's just my opinion though. I really hope it works for ya.

It's interesting that you would reference Berger recommended twist rates. If you remember, I stated that I would, primarily, be shooting 175s. What Twist Rate does Berger recommend for 175 VLD and 175 OTM?

 

[Aimsmall55]

It's interesting that you would reference Berger recommended twist rates. If you remember, I stated that I would, primarily, be shooting 175s. What Twist Rate does Berger recommend for 175 VLD and 175 OTM?

175 vld and OTM both 1:13

 

[MontanaMarine]

About the only venue I know of that commonly uses 1/13 barrels is Palma.

I don't think I need to spell out what bullet weight they shoot.

 

[Donald]

The 168gr might be worth a look.

 

[MontanaMarine]

The fact is you don't really know until you try it out.

some 1/9 .224" barrels will stabilize the 75gr AMax, some won't.

I shoot factory Remington 1/12 308Win barrels, and have had good results with the 208 AMax, 210 Berger, even the 220 SMK, and 225 Hdy BTHP. But, I'm also shooting at 4000+ ft elevation. I'd never recommend a 1/12 for a 308 build for a long range rig where heavies are going to be on the menu, I'm just lucky.

A 1/13 30-cal is rolling the dice for bullets over 175gr or so. When atmo conditions are considered there are a lot of variables. What works at elevation in fair weather may fail down by the sea, or in cold-ass weather.