Not sure if this is the right place to ask this. Im thinking about ordering the giraud trimmer after reading so many great things about it. Im just not clear about something. Would I HAVE to full size the brass to use the trimmer? I only neck size the brass for my bolt 308 every 4-5 firings and then full size. Is this going to be a problem with the giraud trimmer? Thanks
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You do have to F/L size for the trimmer to work properly as the machine indexes and trims off of the case shoulder. Have you ever actually measured your Rifle's chamber to see what the actual length is?
I bought a Sinclair chamber length gauge a couple of years ago. On two of my 308 bolt guns, the chambers were 2.040" and 2.045". When I repeated the measurements a few times and confirmed the lengths, I actually laughed. For so many years, I had been so anal about never to let the cases get past the dreaded SAAMI maximum of 2.015". I'm pretty confident that most chambers are like mine. One is a Remington custom Shop 40XBKS and the other is a custom barrel.
Realistically, I could trim the cases on the first F/L sizing and never have to trim again before getting to the 2.040" length.
You will be fine trimming the first F/L sizing and firing 4-5 times before the next F/L sizing.
I bought a Sinclair chamber length gauge a couple of years ago. On two of my 308 bolt guns, the chambers were 2.040" and 2.045". When I repeated the measurements a few times and confirmed the lengths, I actually laughed. For so many years, I had been so anal about never to let the cases get past the dreaded SAAMI maximum of 2.015". I'm pretty confident that most chambers are like mine. One is a Remington custom Shop 40XBKS and the other is a custom barrel.
Realistically, I could trim the cases on the first F/L sizing and never have to trim again before getting to the 2.040" length.
You will be fine trimming the first F/L sizing and firing 4-5 times before the next F/L sizing.
I know a guy who is a software engineer and a patent attorney that owns a Giraurd trimmer for his A4s, and has never figured out how to use it.
He posts here, sometimes. I hope he doesn't read this.
But if he can't figure it out, there may be something complicated.
I know I gave away a Dillon 550B without using it, but I never tried hard to figure out how to use it, so it might all be laziness. There are great videos for the 550B, I could have done it after a lobotomy.
He posts here, sometimes. I hope he doesn't read this.
But if he can't figure it out, there may be something complicated.
I know I gave away a Dillon 550B without using it, but I never tried hard to figure out how to use it, so it might all be laziness. There are great videos for the 550B, I could have done it after a lobotomy.
The sinclair chamber gauge is actually on my order list. Im more concerned about having the exact same length for the brass every time I reload then how much under the max they are for my chamber. So for ex if my chamber measures 2.040" and I trim 100pcs of brass @ 2.010" and go shoot them, will all the brass be stretched at the same exact length? While the brass will def be under 2.040" max I doubt they will all be streched by the same exact amount
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I can't answer your question because I just don't care if my brass length varies by a couple of thousandths and I haven't taken the time to experiment. If you are if you are that concerned, you should use a precision lathe type hand trimmer and cut your brass to the exact length every time you shoot them.
Maybe someone else can chime in who's actually done some in depth length testing on the Giraud.
I've used lathe trimmers both hand and powererd, the Dillon RT 1200 and a Gracey trimmer. I've sold the RT 1200 and the Gracey and replaced them with the Giraud.
With my Giraud, I trim for 223 Remington, 260 Remington, 270 Winchester, 308 Winchester and 30/06. It is a much better tool for me than the RT 1200 and the Gracey. The RT 1200 is a great tool if you use it on a progressive machine the way it was intended. I reload rifle ammo on a single stage press.
The Giraud does all I want it to. I'm now done with buying case trimmers.
As long as you're not close to your chamber's max length and you don't use a crimp, length variance of a couple thousandths between cases doesn't matter much. Just my humble opinion.....
I agree with you. I know im not going to see difference as far as group size. Im not that good of a shot to begin with. Im just trying to lower ES and SD and case length is one of the inconsistencies in my reloading process. I only trim if they go over 2.015". Down to 2.005". So the brass is anywhere from 2.005"-2.015". Im hoping that if all the brass is the same length ES and SD will go down. if it doesnt then on to something else.
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I don't think we've been answering the OPs question completely.
Two points:
1. The Giraud uses the case shoulder as a datum, so every case will come out of the Giraud with equal "shoulder-to-casemouth" lengths. Overall case length is of course equal to "casehead-to-shoulder" length PLUS "shoulder-to-casemouth". That means any inconsistency in "casehead-to-shoulder" length will create overall caselength discrepancies.
2. I've found most chambers allow enough brass growth that UNsized cases fit pretty snug in the Giraud shellholders, which makes trimming a PITA. The shellholders Giraud trimmer ship with are meant to be used with FLS'd brass.
I'd bet Doug Giraud would accomodate you by making you a slightly oversized shellholder if you wish to ONLY necksize. Call him.
Two points:
1. The Giraud uses the case shoulder as a datum, so every case will come out of the Giraud with equal "shoulder-to-casemouth" lengths. Overall case length is of course equal to "casehead-to-shoulder" length PLUS "shoulder-to-casemouth". That means any inconsistency in "casehead-to-shoulder" length will create overall caselength discrepancies.
2. I've found most chambers allow enough brass growth that UNsized cases fit pretty snug in the Giraud shellholders, which makes trimming a PITA. The shellholders Giraud trimmer ship with are meant to be used with FLS'd brass.
I'd bet Doug Giraud would accomodate you by making you a slightly oversized shellholder if you wish to ONLY necksize. Call him.
Something else to consider is the actual cause of case lengthening. Years ago, someone said that the hot gasses from the powder was causing the brass to flow towards the case mouth, making the cases longer. The current school of thought is that pulling the expander out of a case that has been sized smaller than it needs to be, is what actually stretches the brass and makes the case longer.
So, if you use a bushing style die without an internal expander, then the case isn't sized smaller than it needs to be, and there is no expander to stretch the case longer. By using a bushing die, you only size the neck small enough to grip the new bullet you are inserting in your reload. By using a bushing die, you minimize the amount of trimming that is required.
So, if you use a bushing style die without an internal expander, then the case isn't sized smaller than it needs to be, and there is no expander to stretch the case longer. By using a bushing die, you only size the neck small enough to grip the new bullet you are inserting in your reload. By using a bushing die, you minimize the amount of trimming that is required.
Cases do not grow lengthwise in the chamber. Case lengthening does not happen until you full length size. The lengthening comes from pushing the shoulder back, and the brass squeezes forward.
Idk about that. The brass in my rifle def grows with just firing it.
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Depending on your chamber, you can trim with the Giraud after neck sizing as long as the sizing extends far enough down the neck. The issue with some bushing dies is they won't size the neck close enough to the shoulder whereby the unsized section binds in the shell holder. For loose chambers full length sizing may be required.
Case lengthening occurs prior to the shoulder coming into contact with the die when sizing. Brass with thick necks can cause stretching of the case when the expander is drawn through it and can result in inconsistent sizing.
Case lengthening occurs prior to the shoulder coming into contact with the die when sizing. Brass with thick necks can cause stretching of the case when the expander is drawn through it and can result in inconsistent sizing.
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