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Remington 5R .223

rickyd_55

rickyd_55

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Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 2, 2012
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N.Central Texas
Would the 5R mil-spec .223 be a good starting point for long range .223 shooting. Or would I be better off just getting parts to put one together? I already have a .308 and I'm just looking for something a little different than all the 6.5 stuff that everybody is going to.
 
I have a 223 sps tactical that I shoot more than anything.

With 68/69 grain bullets its a lot of fun for out to 500 yards.
 
The sps tac. has the same twist as the 5R right. I was just liking the longer barrel on the 5R. I want to be able to shoot the heavy stuff, I just worry abou the 1-9 twist.
 
1/9 will not work.I shoot a savage,shilen 1/8 wylde barrel.It shoots well to 1000Y with 80G SMK @2920.
 
Well it's looking like my best bet is to piece one together. On the barrel since an 8 twist is good would a 7 be even better or not a lot of difference?
 
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I have one and like it a lot. It's factory except for a Jewel trigger. A little fussy with loads; I had to work a little to find one it really liked. But it is a definite shooter, and I don't feel handicapped under 600 yards at all, loaded with 69 grain bullets. I do think the barrel twist would be better faster, and once this barrel is gone I will go faster, but I think for the money, out of the box, it is very hard to beat. I've learned a whole lot shooting mine, and I still think I am the weakest link in the system.
 
Well one other reason for sticking with the .223 is cause I just took the plunge and bought a specwar 5.56 and I would like to use it on a precison .223 as well as my AR. My local range is 500 yards but there is another range that is 30 minutes away that goes out to a grand. I would like to try the .223 at 1000 yards. So I'm just not sure if I can get there with the 1-9 twist.
 
I was in the same situation as you about a year ago. I bought a 1/7 Brux barrel and a new bolt for my Surgeon Receiver. I don't know what your setup is, but if you want to shoot heavies then a 1/7 is the way to go.
 
rickyd_55 said:
Well one other reason for sticking with the .223 is cause I just took the plunge and bought a specwar 5.56 and I would like to use it on a precison .223 as well as my AR. My local range is 500 yards but there is another range that is 30 minutes away that goes out to a grand. I would like to try the .223 at 1000 yards. So I'm just not sure if I can get there with the 1-9 twist.
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What range is 500yds around here? I know BotW is 1000 and eagle is 300. Havent heard of a 500 around here.

I'm going to go 224x6.8 so I can push the 75gr amaxs to 3200. Will still be cheap to shoot but will reach out to 1k no problem.
 
1slow01z71 said:
What range is 500yds around here? I know BotW is 1000 and eagle is 300. Havent heard of a 500 around here.

I'm going to go 224x6.8 so I can push the 75gr amaxs to 3200. Will still be cheap to shoot but will reach out to 1k no problem.
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Well I'm more north central like 120 miles north of Ft. Worth, probably misleading with the central texas location. The range here in town is 500 yards.

As far as my setup goes I don't have an action or anything that I want to use for this gun. I would probably go with a Remington action if I can find one and just go from there.
 
I believe Tikka 223s have 8 twist barrels. Might look into them.
 
You will be better served with a spec build where you can decide on the freebore and twist. I bought a 24" ceracoat 5r last year only to find the chamber not to have the same freebore as my R700 tactical so when I use the heavier bullets (80 nosler CC and 75 berger vld) they take up valuable powder space. Both of those bullets would work in the tactical if pushed hard and seated into the lands with varget. I found a load I would like to explore more (75 berger vld) with H4895 but then the powder became hard to find...
 
If you're going to have one built, then go for the gusto. Mine is made to shoot 80 grain SMK's, and it will surprise most people. 1 in 7, or 1 in 8 will work just fine, and will go out past 600 yards without issues. BTW, don't write off the 6.5s. There's good reason a lot of people are going to them.
 
Same twist as the 5R. It'll shot the 75 bthp and 77SMK.

If you get lucky it might shoot the 75amaxs.
 
I'm not writing of the 6.5 pills at all, it's something I want to get into down the road. Right now I'm pretty set on the .223 for this go around. I want to shoot the heavy stuff so I may go ahead and order a barrel then decide on the action. Would a 24" barrel be enough or should I step up to a 26" tube?
 
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Out to 600, 75 VLDs will keep you fairly competitive from a 9 twist, factory 223.

Going out to 1K, I'd do an 8 or 7.7 twist bbl at least 26" long and set up for 80.5 Berger or 80 JLKs.

I have a Win 70 HBV with factory 26", 9 twist bbl that absolutely loves the 75 JLK. I've gotten quite a few folks hooked on F-class shooting with that rifle and bullet at our local 600 yard match.
 
If your lucky, it's right on the edge depending on the twist I that specific barrel.


A friends LTR in 223 will, mine will not.

Its kind of a moot point since you can't buy Amaxs anyhow.
 
BoilerUP said:
Yes.

The 75gr Berger VLD has better stability in a 1:9 than the 75gr A-Max, and though they are more expensive, are an excellent option.
Click to expand...

Your Savage .223ai is an awesome rifle. How far have you been able to shoot to with it? I noticed in your post you had taken it to 300yds.
 
75 A-max will not stabilize in my 9 twist, Win 70 HBV but the 75 JLK and Berger do just fine. 70 VLD will work well also.

How big is the budget for the 223? Hard to beat a custom that has correct twist rate and chamber set up for desired bullet but cost will probably be in the 2.5-3X of a factory rifle.
 
FCS said:
75 A-max will not stabilize in my 9 twist, Win 70 HBV but the 75 JLK and Berger do just fine. 70 VLD will work well also.

How big is the budget for the 223? Hard to beat a custom that has correct twist rate and chamber set up for desired bullet but cost will probably be in the 2.5-3X of a factory rifle.
Click to expand...

If I build one I will have to spread it out over the year or so. That's one reason I haven't done anything yet cause of the cost of a full blown custom. I really want the faster twist but it will take longer to get the parts than me buying the 5R 9 twist off the shelf. I've got a rock solid chassis and a Bushnell g2dmr glass already. Just need a barrel an action and a trigger and somebody to put it all together.
 
If your thinking of going the factory route take a look at me thread here.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-reloading/108348-223-remington-tactical-owners.html

I have revisited the 75 a-max in my 5r and during the cold temps of January (0-15 degrees) to see worse case performance and on one day it worked and the next day which was warmer, it didn’t... Not sure what going on there but will try them again when we are above freezing. I had some promising results with the berger 75vld's but then ran out of them...

On a side note the velocities I have gotten in my 20” tactical with varget powder compared to the 5r with H4895, the 5r is about 150fps from 69-75 grain bullets... If I run varget in the 5r I run out of room for the powder because of the seating depth I eluded to above and velocity ends up being a wash with what I can fit into the case.
 
Niles Coyote said:
If your thinking of going the factory route take a look at me thread here.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-reloading/108348-223-remington-tactical-owners.html

I have revisited the 75 a-max in my 5r and during the cold temps of January (0-15 degrees) to see worse case performance and on one day it worked and the next day which was warmer, it didn’t... Not sure what going on there but will try them again when we are above freezing. I had some promising results with the berger 75vld's but then ran out of them...

On a side note the velocities I have gotten in my 20” tactical with varget powder compared to the 5r with H4895, the 5r is about 150fps from 69-75 grain bullets... If I run varget in the 5r I run out of room for the powder because of the seating depth I eluded to above and velocity ends up being a wash with what I can fit into the case.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link to your stuff, lots of good info in there. I might have to go see about picking up a new Remington today.
 
I've built four 223 bolt rifles over the past several years - two on new M700 SA from Brownells, another one on a Win M70 Stealth I purchased new several years before I bought my lathe and started doing my own bbl work, and the last on a Pierce TG action.

Starting with the M70 - I had a spare PacNor 1-7.5tw 4-groove sitting in the rack, so pulled the factory bbl and chambered it with a 223 Match reamer for bolt guns. It shot everything I put through it very well, up to & including JLK 80VLDs. Still had several partial boxes of JLK 90VLDs sitting around from shooting service rifle in NRA XC HP matches; got curious enough about how they'd shoot in the 7.5tw bbl to try them at 600. After years of shooting AR15 SRs with 1-6.5tw bbls (we were told the 90s needed that fast twist to work), I was very surprised to find that the JLK90s shot just fine out of the 7.5tw bbl. Chrono showed avg vel of around 2850fps with these N550 loads out of the 27" PacNor, and the best of them shot well under 1 MOA at 600 - nothing spectacular, but some of these bullets were out of a lot that Jimmy Knox brought to Perry in '03 that gave all sorts of problems out of our 1-6.5tw AR bbls.

Next project was a M700 with a 26" Krieger 1-7.7tw in a B&C A3 stock. It wouldn't stabilize either Berger or JLK 90s well enough to give good accuracy, but it sure did shoot H75AMaxes, S80MKs, & JLK80VLDs good. Sold it to a friend, only because I still had the M70 223, and was planning the next build - a 223 AI.

Bought another M700 from Brownells, and chambered a 26" 1-7tw Krieger for 223 AI. Put it in a McM A5 with R&D DBM, a TPS 20 MOA sloped rail & Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50. This thing beats all I've seen out of the 223 case. Not that it gets so much better velocity (it doesn't), but the accuracy with Berger 90VLDs (it also shoots the 90LRBTs really well - too bad they discontinued them) is perhaps better than any other 223 I've ever owned. It's shot several 5" 5-shot groups on steel IPSC targets at 1000yds, and allowed me to get hits on 1300 & 1400yd steel targets at a local precision rifle match, even though I ran out of elevation on the Vortex when dialing up from 1300 to 1400. I've heard a lot of guys talk here & on other forums about how picky the 90VLDs can be, but all I did was load them to max length for the AICS 10rd plastic mags, and they shoot lights-out. This rifle shoots consistently better than the last 223 I built, which is a Pierce TG action in an Eliseo R5 chassis with a 30" Bartlein 5R 1-7.2tw bbl, chambered with my 223 Match reamer, and throated out an additional .080" specifically for 90s.
 
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rickyd_55 said:
Your Savage .223ai is an awesome rifle. How far have you been able to shoot to with it? I noticed in your post you had taken it to 300yds.
Click to expand...

I've shot it to 500 a number of times, and as far as 900. I had issues at 900, but that was due to me running too hot a load and loading brass with that load one too many times (popped primers, sticky bolt, etc.) I've since found the lower node, but haven't had a chance to take it beyond 500 yet.

I'm working up a load with Varget and 90gr Berger VLDs now, and early results look promising.

The rifle shoots my AR load (77gr Nosler and 23.5gr 8208XBR) about 3/4MOA.
 
If you buy a Remington in 223 with 1:9 it's only guaranteed that 69gr bullets will stabilize. I've seen some that wouldn't stabilize 77's and ones that's would stabilize the 75 Amax. Punching them out to 223AI helps a little too. Don't count on the 77-75 stabilizing though.

I personally won't buy another Remington small bolt face rifle though. The four recent productions I have bought over the last couple years the extractor has eaten brass. On one of them I replaced the extractor something like five times and even tried polishing one and it still did it. I don't know what the hell the problem is but their standard and magnum actions don't do it.

I would entertain the idea of a build. You can get a Howa or Vanguard donor rifle with the new trigger for $450ish, $700 gets you a McMillan and pillar bedding, and another $700 gets you a good tube in twist of your choice. At the end you're left with a solid rifle for well under $2K.
 
The M700 action I used in the 223 AI build I described above works fine - no extraction problems whatsoever. But I've seen several 308 boltface M700s over the past few years that had all sorts of extraction or ejection problems. I've also tried installing new factory extractors, but without much success. Makes me feel like the best thing to do is sell the OEM bolt as soon as I get the action, and replace it with a PTG with the mini-16 extractor.

Dittos on the choice of a Howa as the basis for a build. But I'm wondering what's going on - JSC is out of stock on most variations of the bbl'd actions. Now that we've got PTG making good DBM for them, the supply dries up.....
 
You can use the action but bolt will need to be replaced with correct bolt face.

223 has 0.378" dia bolt face
308 has 0.473" dia bolt face
 
rickyd_55 said:
I don't think Beretta is importing the .223 with the 8 twist anymore. I could be wrong. I think all you can get it in now is a 10 twist.
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You are correct on the current batch of Tikka's twist rate being 1:10.

I searched for a couple of months calling and emailing all of the usual purveyors looking for the 1:8 but was told none to be had, then I spoke with the guys at EuroOptic they said the .223 with 1:8 is on order and should be here in the Fall of 2014.

I ended up buying a used Tikka Scout CTR in .223 with a 20" heavy barrel with 1:8 twist and ?50 rounds down the tube off of GB for a $100 back of retail, the seller is just north of Waco (3 hour drive) from New Braunfels so I'll drive up this weekend and pick it up.
 
N0mad said:
You are correct on the current batch of Tikka's twist rate being 1:10.

I searched for a couple of months calling and emailing all of the usual purveyors looking for the 1:8 but was told none to be had, then I spoke with the guys at EuroOptic they said the .223 with 1:8 is on order and should be here in the Fall of 2014.

I ended up buying a used Tikka Scout CTR in .223 with a 20" heavy barrel with 1:8 twist and ?50 rounds down the tube off of GB for a $100 back of retail, the seller is just north of Waco (3 hour drive) from New Braunfels so I'll drive up this weekend and pick it up.
Click to expand...

I had been eye balling the Tikka Varmint .223 for awhile until I found out about the change in the twist here in the states, so I had moved on passed that and went back to the Remington. I would love to get a Tikka, just hate to wait that long for the next batch of 1-8's to hit here. That's good to know none the less. I may have to keep an eye on GB and see if one comes up close to me in the mean time.
 
Ricky, do you already own a good rifle with a 308 bolt face? good stock? good trigger? good scope? If so, the cheapest option would be to buy a 223 bolt from PT&G, get a good match barrel and create a switch barrel rifle. Unfortunately, there are few factory options with the right twist rate and freebore. Get a 1:7.7 or 1:7 Krieger or Bartlein barrel and shoot any of the 80 grain bullets. You'll be real happy with the results.
 
scotharr said:
Ricky, do you already own a good rifle with a 308 bolt face? good stock? good trigger? good scope? If so, the cheapest option would be to buy a 223 bolt from PT&G, get a good match barrel and create a switch barrel rifle. Unfortunately, there are few factory options with the right twist rate and freebore. Get a 1:7.7 or 1:7 Krieger or Bartlein barrel and shoot any of the 80 grain bullets. You'll be real happy with the results.
Click to expand...


Well I did own a good .308 but I had to sell it to pay for some other things, so as of right now all I have is an AR-15. The thought of using the .308 as a donor never really crossed my mind at the time. So now I'm trying to get another bolt gun and wanted to start with the .223 and work my way up.
 
Here's a suggestion. Get a Remington 700 SA with 223 bolt(includes trigger) from Brownells: just the action. Get a Bell & Carlson Fully adjustable tactical medalist stock, Seekins picatinny rail, match 223 barrel with a 1:7, 1:7.7 twist and have a good smith put it all together for you. This will run you around $1500 and you will have a great shooter out of the box. Later, you can simply purchase a 308 bolt and create a switch barrel if desired.
 
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