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Rifle Scopes S&B vs NF BEAST

bjay

bjay

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 19, 2009
4,050
660
Aloha state HI
Im about to upgrade my nxs and try reach the high end..what ive gathered so far, both has 50 (moa) per rev thats a plus.both illum.BEAST has 120moa total adjustment and 100 on SB. Im planing to shoot up to 2k at the most..on 20moa base on my bighorn im also planing to use spuhr mount.should i use with cant or no cant mount for that distance.i kinda like the litle thinner P4F on SB.i dont know if beast will come with reticle thiner that their usual moar and mlr.
ive been waiting for mr LOWLIGHT to do comprasion bet the two on his YT channel:)
 
fdkay said:
One you can buy, the other is unobtanium
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YEP. THIS!!!!!!

As one of the countless guys with the BEAST on order with so many blown deadlines I've quit paying attention, if you want an actual scope to go on an actual rifle then you have to look elsewhere. If it's an imaginary rifle you'll own at some undetermined time in the future, then the BEAST is supposed to be one badass imaginary scope that should suit your "imaginary" timeline quite well.

I just ordered a new rifle from Marc for the BEAST to sit on, since I've already had to buy other REAL scopes to go on my other REAL rifles that the BEAST was going to be used on. My guess is that my rifle from Marc, that was ordered this week, will be ready before the BEAST is (which was ordered right after SHOT 2013). I don't think I'm exaggerating either.
 
bjay said:
Im about to upgrade my nxs and try reach the high end..what ive gathered so far, both has 50 (moa) per rev thats a plus.both illum.BEAST has 120moa total adjustment and 100 on SB. Im planing to shoot up to 2k at the most..on 20moa base on my bighorn im also planing to use spuhr mount.should i use with cant or no cant mount for that distance.i kinda like the litle thinner P4F on SB.i dont know if beast will come with reticle thiner that their usual moar and mlr.
ive been waiting for mr LOWLIGHT to do comprasion bet the two on his YT channel:)
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It helps if you break your questions down point by point. I will try to help you out.

2k Shooting, Spurh with cant without cant, Get 10 MOA.

Thinner Reticle, the p4F = 0.35 at the center line (I love this feature) the Beast MIl-R has .04 which is the same as MSR/H2CMR so it is clearly thin enough for many many people.

As for a compairson video from LL, I wouldn't expect hat. As for deciding well that depends, do you want a scope this year or someday in the future. I wanted nothing more than to run a BEAST this season and even called NF to beg yesterday. They had nothing firm to say other than that they are in production.
 
Oh boy, here we go again. Another comparison question between an old scope versus a new scope that is not technically available yet. I can't wait to hear what people say in this thread. Popcorn.. anyone?
 
peaceatwar said:
It helps if you break your questions down point by point. I will try to help you out.

2k Shooting, Spurh with cant without cant, Get 10 MOA.

Thinner Reticle, the p4F = 0.35 at the center line (I love this feature) the Beast MIl-R has .04 which is the same as MSR/H2CMR so it is clearly thin enough for many many people.

As for a compairson video from LL, I wouldn't expect hat. As for deciding well that depends, do you want a scope this year or someday in the future. I wanted nothing more than to run a BEAST this season and even called NF to beg yesterday. They had nothing firm to say other than that they are in production.
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.04 moa on beast? Are you sure the last time i checked .062 R2 and .065 R1 are the thinest NF ret so far..
 
You won't see me do a comparison as that is not how I do it, it's up to you to make the decision on which one you want to go with.

I will lay out my observations, and you can decide. The specs' are published as far as reticle thickness and what they look like. The schematics are online from most manufacturers showing what to expect.

I know my Mil / Mil BEAST is supposed to be on the way, once I have it in hand I will details my experience using both the MOA version and the Mil version of the same scope. How it stacks up to a S&B, or Premier, or Vortex, or Kahles, is a matter of opinion, it's a personal choice.

I happen to find the BEAST to be an excellent scope, and I have said this numerous times. I really like it and plan on running it on a consistent basis. If that doesn't tell you something, nothing I say will.

if you have not pre-ordered a BEAST already, the odds of you getting it before the summer will be slim. The ones who pre-ordered them should be seeing them soon. My last estimate based on numerous conversations was, first shipments to dealers for pre-orders should be heading out the door in March. Once the pre-orders are taken care, which I suspect will be some time. After all they stopped them because so many were coming in, then everyone else will have access to them. If you are lucky enough to find one where the pre-order owner decided not to wait, good on you. You scored.

But the reticle, glass, the adjustments, the size, the weight, the feel, the use are are excellent and in my personal opinion stack up to anything you might want to compare it too.
 
The hold up is trouble getting the Digillium for the optics , unfortunately Gilligan is suffering from erectile dysfunction and can't whoop out anymore special sauce needed to manufacture the "Digillium " Digillium ? Who comes up with these freakin words ? LOL
 
bjay said:
Im about to upgrade my nxs and try reach the high end..what ive gathered so far, both has 50 (moa) per rev thats a plus.both illum.BEAST has 120moa total adjustment and 100 on SB. Im planing to shoot up to 2k at the most..on 20moa base on my bighorn im also planing to use spuhr mount.should i use with cant or no cant mount for that distance.i kinda like the litle thinner P4F on SB.i dont know if beast will come with reticle thiner that their usual moar and mlr.
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You should also consider the new Vortex Razor HD 4.5-27 with EBR-2C reticle, but that is still a few months away???
 
it depends on whats important to you, is it more important to have the latest and greatest gear or is geting a great scope and geting out and shooting now?

are you a gear person or a shooting person,
 
Another option not mentioned are the March Tactical scopes from Kelbly. 2/3rds the length and weight of other premium scopes and have been out over 3 years. Rugged with great mil/mil reticle initially. MOA/MOA available this year. FFP. Illuminated versions about $500 more, but non illuminated version reasonable and not necessary for me. I'll post some pictures later this weekend. I have the F 3-24X 42mm and FX 5-40X 56mm. 30mm tube on the F and 34mm on the FX. A 20-40 canted mount will give you all the elevation you'll need. Great glass and no problems on my Barrett MRAD. Easiest zero stop around. Some good reviews of them here on the Hide, if you search.
 
trickyric said:
Does anyone know why it has taken so long for Nightforce to get the beast to consumers?
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Could be any number of reasons, R&D, Supply and Demand, Trials, etc. I always wait until the surge has died down to purchase something like this anyway.
 
BozFour said:
Could be any number of reasons, R&D, Supply and Demand, Trials, etc. I always wait until the surge has died down to purchase something like this anyway.
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That gives all the anal retentive, OCD optic gurus a chance to critique the hell out of so I know exactly what I'm getting should I decide to buy one.
 
thefitter said:
That gives all the anal retentive, OCD optic gurus a chance to critique the hell out of so I know exactly what I'm getting should I decide to buy one.
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You nailed it! Gives all the retired type folks a chance to head down to range and play, then come tell us all about it lol.
 
BozFour said:
You nailed it! Gives all the retired type folks a chance to head down to range and play, then come tell us all about it lol.
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After you work your butt off for forty years at 60-80 hours a week, you'll have the privilege to come on down and join us!!! Until then, just keep working to cover the costs for my retirement and medical bills. Thanks a million.
 
sib1948 said:
After you work your butt off for forty years at 60-80 hours a week, you'll have the privilege to come on down and join us!!! Until then, just keep working to cover the costs for my retirement and medical bills. Thanks a million.
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No problem Sib lol! I've got a ways to go and maybe even another war to fight but I'll get there.

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trickyric said:
Does anyone know why it has taken so long for Nightforce to get the beast to consumers?
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They are fulfilling the military contracts first. That is why there is a long wait

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I have heard that too.
But I have to say it seems odd that it would take a year to do that.
I don't know how many the military would be buying since not many soldiers would use one, but I cannot imagine it takes this long to fulfill their order.
 
trickyric said:
I have heard that too.
But I have to say it seems odd that it would take a year to do that.
I don't know how many the military would be buying since not many soldiers would use one, but I cannot imagine it takes this long to fulfill their order.
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Per NF they are fulfilling a lot of military orders and they were back ordered as well. Also per their reps that I spoke too and know

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I have learned over my many years of doing business with company reps that lying comes to them naturally.
It could be true.
Just seems odd that a company of their size couldn't produce thousands of these in the time period since they announced the model.
You would think that they already had production up and running before they announced the product. Part of the decision to bring a product to market is to anticipate demand and prepare for it.
 
trickyric said:
I have learned over my many years of doing business with company reps that lying comes to them naturally.
It could be true.
Just seems odd that a company of their size couldn't produce thousands of these in the time period since they announced the model.
You would think that they already had production up and running before they announced the product. Part of the decision to bring a product to market is to anticipate demand and prepare for it.
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I agree, they have to tow the party line and drink the Kool-aide... but last year at SHOT the release date was almost a year out... I will ask and get a firm update, tag this for later

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waveslayer said:
I agree, they have to tow the party line and drink the Kool-aide... but last year at SHOT the release date was almost a year out... I will ask and get a firm update, tag this for later

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I talk with the reps too. At this point....the civvy market isn't delayed because they are filling the mil orders.
 
What's the delay then, the suspense is killing us

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The common problems that come with a brand new line of anything with extremely tight tolerances. Would you rather they push out a shitty product or a good product. Its that simple, this scope has glass on par or better than the germans......its not exactly a quick process.
 
poison123 said:
The common problems that come with a brand new line of anything with extremely tight tolerances. Would you rather they push out a shitty product or a good product. Its that simple, this scope has glass on par or better than the germans......its not exactly a quick process.
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Seriously???
That is not how major manufacturers do things in the 21st century.
Things are made in super high tech facilities mostly by machines and computers.
there isn't a old German man with spectacles sitting over a glass cutting wheel.
I don't mean to be obnoxious, I know it comes off that way. But, these are serious companies.
For instance Minimed makes insulin pumps. Pretty serious stuff. Pumps out hundreds of thousands a year. And they all meet specs to keep people alive.
 
trickyric said:
Seriously???
That is not how major manufacturers do things in the 21st century.
Things are made in super high tech facilities mostly by machines and computers.
there isn't a old German man with spectacles sitting over a glass cutting wheel.
I don't mean to be obnoxious, I know it comes off that way. But, these are serious companies.
For instance Minimed makes insulin pumps. Pretty serious stuff. Pumps out hundreds of thousands a year. And they all meet specs to keep people alive.
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AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Ok....go search out some of Franks posts about factory tours etc. Shit....Khales has some of the best glass out there......and yess there are computers that check the lenses....but they are also checked by a dude looking at a chart.

Gun world....is not equal to the medical world.
 
it was already talked about in another thread... if you guys looked you find the answer.

First off, between the first Shot Show & August of last year they made some changes based on the feedback from the use of the scope in the field. Then, after the changes were made they went from building them one at a time to moving the assembly line to Idaho. During that process, they felt in order to get the best quality it needed it's own line and a new set of machines to assemble it as it was different enough from the NXS F1 that the current process was not up to their standard. So they were installing a new line with new machines. (that takes time) Then after that line was up and running, and assembly process was finalized, they had to ship to the government, military, overseas, and last the commercial market.

I have posted several times, more than few in fact that Mid to Late March the Pre-Orders would start heading out to the US dealers. I know the Australian order shipped, guys from there have posted as much. At Shot NF said about 4 week after that order was finished the US Stuff would begin moving. They are still on that timeline.

If you have not pre-ordered you are probably gonna wait, unless you find a dealer with a canceled order. The BEAST pre-orders were pretty darn large.

Nightforce does not rush product to the shelves, they want to make sure it is right. The fact you know about it is because they do test with people out in the field so you'll see and hear about them, but that does not change, this is a completely different scope for them.
 
And besides think about.....do you really think if all their production was going to meet Mil orders that they wouldn't be able to give at least a semi solid date to all their Commercial retailers?
 
Thanks Lowlight,

I get kind of sarcastic about the delivery date, simply because it's become kind of funny to me the number of things that have come out since the BEAST was announced.
I'm not worried until you come on one of these threads and say, "fuck this thing, it sucks, don't waste your time with it". As you have hands-on with them, as long as you feel it's worth waiting for, then this kid will keep waiting for it. As I said, it was a great excuse to order a new rifle from Marc.

ETA: Dammit, I just realized that you had once again "manipulated" me. I guess I'm a parrot after all.
 
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Lowlight said:
The date they said at SHOT was Mid to Late March for Pre-Orders to start shipping. What part of that is not semi-solid ?
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We've also heard various dates all through last year. You in fact mentioned more than once a xmas delivery was very likely. And hell at Shot show I was told End of Feb for Pre Orders to start shipping.

When I get the Call from Randy that they are shipping my Beast....I will in fact believe they have started shipping. Till then....its just getting hopes up.
 
trickyric said:
Seriously???
That is not how major manufacturers do things in the 21st century.
Things are made in super high tech facilities mostly by machines and computers.
there isn't a old German man with spectacles sitting over a glass cutting wheel.
I don't mean to be obnoxious, I know it comes off that way. But, these are serious companies.
For instance Minimed makes insulin pumps. Pretty serious stuff. Pumps out hundreds of thousands a year. And they all meet specs to keep people alive.
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Yes, seriously. While Minimed cranks out hundreds of thousands of insulin pumps a year, how long did it take them to get the FINAL design perfected?

All too often the marketing department demands delivery on an accelerated schedule that does not allow engineering sufficient time for testing - hence problems with early production units. Far better to take the time to get it right the first time then rush to market with a 90% complete design.

OFG
 
The XMAS time was before they realized they need to completely re-tool for this line of scopes. They addressed that and it was not a design issue or scope issue, it was about quality assembly from scope to scope.

That new year date was discussed in Aug / Sept, it wasn't until late Oct that they realized the line needed to be addressed.

This is why you don't see NF with Gen 1, Gen 2, pre-date, post-date versions of their scopes.
 
Lowlight said:
This is why you don't see NF with Gen 1, Gen 2, pre-date, post-date versions of their scopes.
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I can appreciate this. The newer way of life demands instant gratification and places aggresive demands on companies. People that preorder and chase the latest and greatest need to realize they are gambling.
 
dbransco said:
I can appreciate this. The newer way of life demands instant gratification and places aggresive demands on companies. People that preorder and chase the latest and greatest need to realize they are gambling.
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Like i said above, I always wait on these things to die down a bit. Many optics have experienced start up issues and will continue to. As for the military comment, I have seen 1 beast in military hands not that I'm in the armory everyday either.
 
Franks explanation answers the question.
I just wasn't buying military back orders.
Retooling and changing facility would create serious delays.
That makes perfect sense.
 
oldfatguy said:
Yes, seriously. While Minimed cranks out hundreds of thousands of insulin pumps a year, how long did it take them to get the FINAL design perfected?

All too often the marketing department demands delivery on an accelerated schedule that does not allow engineering sufficient time for testing - hence problems with early production units. Far better to take the time to get it right the first time then rush to market with a 90% complete design.

OFG
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that is fair
 
Shoottothrill said:
I'm gonna wait till they been out at least a year. See what bugs if any crawl out.
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i just bought ATACR the other day and ill be using this scope till beast get litle old..i dodnt have to be the first one to have them..let bugs die then harvest
 
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The delay is the reason you don't find bugs in the NF Line... unlike others who rush to market.

It's been a year of T&E, and actually quite a bit more. There are plenty of people using them... in a variety of ways.

Here is Wade S, at RO last week at the Bushnell Brawl, what scope do you think he is running too:

1901397_457709631027133_641034461_n.jpg
 
Damn thats a big turret.

Lowlight, have you or anybody else had the chance to get a stopwatch and see how much quicker NF's new system is compared to its competitors.

Jl

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