Hello I have a Bergara B-14 HMR in 308 that consistently shoots groups of 1.5 MOA or larger i have tried different factory match grade ammo mostly 168 grain. I have tried other bullet weights but they all shoot about 1.5 MOA. I have a background in marksmanship both in military and police work and can shoot solid 0.3-0.5 MOA groups with my other precision rifles. I sent the Rifle back to Bergara they said it was a copper fouling issue and re-crowned the barrel. even after they sent it back it still shot the same 1.5 MOA groups with match grade ammo. I am torn on what i should do has anyone else had this issue. I do not reload ammo unfortunately but they advertise the rifle will shoot at least 1 MOA with good quality factory ammo. Any help would be great before i just sell the rifle and stick with just my Tikka T3X Tac A1
- Thread starter BlueLine67
- Start date
I have a 6.5 CM B14 BMP that consistantly shoots sub .75 moa groups, with the occasional .3. I have a buddy with a B14 HMR and it shoots the same.
Is there any possibility the scope is not tracking? The HMR had a Vortex that wouldn't hold zero. Vortex replaced it now it shoots fine.
Is there any possibility the scope is not tracking? The HMR had a Vortex that wouldn't hold zero. Vortex replaced it now it shoots fine.
Im using a Zeiss Conquest and the scope is good we have tried a couple different scopes and i currently use the ziess on my tikka shooting 0.4 and 0.5 MOA groups
What calibers are your other rifles? Just set up a 14 HMR for a friend. It’s very accurate with the factory loads we tested. His is a 6.5 CM, though.
Have you added a brake or anything that didn't come from the factory? My 6.5 really likes Hornady ELD-M and ELD-X so that would be my starting point, but I have heard of rifles that have produced significantly larger groups after a muzzle brake was added. If it won't shoot sub moa with the Hornady Match, I'd send it back again. 1.5moa from that rifle isn't right.
A customer bought a B14 HMR from me in .308 that shot very similar 3/4-1.5moa. I took it and removed all the paint underneath the action then bedded the rifle with Devcon. It is now shooting 1/4-3/8 moa. The thick blobs of paint must have been creating a high point that the action was sitting on and creating the inaccuracies.
So I have a new HMR in .300WM. Have only had it out three times so far, works been killing me lately but back to the point on accuracy. When loading round 71 I thought I saw the scope move. I stopped, tried to move the scope every which way and it was solid as far as I could tell. Scratched my head and continued shooting keeping an eye on any movement. Rounds 72 and 73 went in the same hole at 100yds so I figured I was seeing things. As I loaded round 74 I definitely saw the scope move and packed it in immediately and headed home.
I figured my pic rail was loose and took off my scope only to find it was solid. It was then that I noticed the action and barrel were loose from the stock. Both of the bolts through the bottom metal to the action had worked to hand loose after only 73 rounds fired, (with a muzzle brake).
When I took off the stock completely there were dime sized puddles of what appeared to be light weight machine oil around both bolt holes and nowhere else. Also, I noticed some paint had worn away from the metal in the stock around the bolt holes as well. So I have no idea why there would be so much oil around those holes but I wiped it all up, cleaned off the extra paint, and tightened it all up again. Have not made it back to the range since.
Perhaps something similar is happening to you? I was getting about 1 MOA 5 shot groups but with one unexplained flyer in each group. Once I could not even find the flyer on the target before I noticed the movement. It was like it was flopping back and forth in the stock every few rounds. The torque spec on those bolts is 7nM which seems light to me. I have not checked with Bergara on this yet but I will. Kind of curious about the oil and that torque spec.
HTH
I figured my pic rail was loose and took off my scope only to find it was solid. It was then that I noticed the action and barrel were loose from the stock. Both of the bolts through the bottom metal to the action had worked to hand loose after only 73 rounds fired, (with a muzzle brake).
When I took off the stock completely there were dime sized puddles of what appeared to be light weight machine oil around both bolt holes and nowhere else. Also, I noticed some paint had worn away from the metal in the stock around the bolt holes as well. So I have no idea why there would be so much oil around those holes but I wiped it all up, cleaned off the extra paint, and tightened it all up again. Have not made it back to the range since.
Perhaps something similar is happening to you? I was getting about 1 MOA 5 shot groups but with one unexplained flyer in each group. Once I could not even find the flyer on the target before I noticed the movement. It was like it was flopping back and forth in the stock every few rounds. The torque spec on those bolts is 7nM which seems light to me. I have not checked with Bergara on this yet but I will. Kind of curious about the oil and that torque spec.
HTH
I use 308 in all my precision rifles
I’ve tried a few different hornady loads with and with out muzzle devices
Yes I’ve cleaned it many times and Bergera cleaned it still shoots groups at 1.5 MOA I will say one thing it’s consistent 1.5 MOA with all the variables my self and the gunsmith that is helping with it have check
Interesting. Has the gunsmith looked at the bedding and action screw torque?
Do you have a chassis that fits the 700 footprint?
There is no reason for you to have to buy a new stock unless you just want a new one. The rifle needs to go back and Bergara needs to fix it. It sounds like you have done everything you can.
That would be one of the first things I'd check. Bergara states they tried different torque levels and consistently got better results with 55 inch - pounds rather than the 65 inch - pounds used by many other manufacturers.
The Bergara manual states the torque for the action screws as 7nM which comes out to ~61.922 Inch pounds. Kind of a weird number. I took my .300WM HMR to the range after having tightened down the action screws to what I am sure is waaay to much (torque wrench was not available before the range trip) and did not notice much difference in group size. Then again I an still running through different factory loads trying to she what shoots well. Oddly the Hornedy American Whitetail 150gr is currently beating FGMM and Hornedy ELD Match in 5 shot group size so far. Who would have thought? Still have a bunch more to try though.
In an event I will be re-torquing those action screws this weekend now that I have the proper tools back. Might even get to the range too.
The original manual states 7Nm, a later version stated 55 inch - pounds, I have both versions one for my .300WM B14 Timber from when they first started making them, the other from early 2018 for the B14 HMR. if you ask Bergara USA they will state 55 inch - pounds as does their "B14 Rifle Disassembly and Reassembly" video by their Lawrenceville, GA crew of gunsmiths.
You'll find the video here:
Bergara Rifles
Bergara has quickly become one of the most respected barrel makers in the world. Now, with our barrels, we are building several lines of high-quality tactical and…
vimeo.com My 6.5 Creedmoor B14 HMR does best with the Federal Gold Medal Match Berger, 130 gr.
The original manual states 7Nm, a later version stated 55 inch - pounds, I have both versions one for my .300WM B14 Timber from when they first started making them, the other from early 2018 for the B14 HMR. if you ask Bergara USA they will state 55 inch - pounds as does their "B14 Rifle Disassembly and Reassembly" video by their Lawrenceville, GA crew of gunsmiths.
You'll find the video here:
Bergara Rifles
Bergara has quickly become one of the most respected barrel makers in the world. Now, with our barrels, we are building several lines of high-quality tactical and…
My 6.5 Creedmoor B14 HMR does best with the Federal Gold Medal Match Berger, 130 gr.
Thank you SonicBurlap,
I have not got around to contacting Bergara on that spec yet. I will torque to 55 inch pounds then. I appreciate the information. Will see how she shoots.
Hopefully you'll get better results, if not talk to Bergara they are usually pretty helpful especially if you get to talk to Chad Gibbs, or Joe Young.
I would send it back. Ask them to shoot it and provide you with the target and ammo used to achieve sub MOA.
I have a HMR in 6.5 creedmoor. Mine loves the Hornady ELD match but hates the Hornady American Gunner. Go figure. I also have noticed that these barrels heat up very fast. Make sure you aren't getting the barrel too hot when shooting for your groups. Also I would check with Bergara and see what ammo they used when they checked it for accuracy and try some of that.
I have a friend with a B14 HMR that does not group. It's not the ammo, we swapped 5 rounds, my reloads for his factory. My loads shot about 6 inches out of his rifle, his factory did .5 of of my B14. He hasn't shot it very much, so we haven't had a chance to trouble shoot. Could be the scope, new with the rifle, or somethng hitting the barrel. It may have to go back for a look see.
When I talked to them at the Bergara Experience last year I was told primarily Hornady Match ammo.
I also have the HMR Pro in 6.5 and it shoots the American Gunner just fine.
This was in reference to your inquiry about what ammo Bergara said they use for their accuracy verification.
I primarily shoot Federal Premium Gold Medal Match Berger, 130gr. out of my 6.5CM, HMR and I could not be happier with the group results.
I primarily shoot Federal Premium Gold Medal Match Berger, 130gr. out of my 6.5CM, HMR and I could not be happier with the group results.
A little off topic, but has bergara been progressively making the HMR's barrel contour thicker? It looks like it was a "No. 5" in 2017 then a No. 5.5 in 2018 and now a No. 6 in 2019. Am I seeing this right? I also checked the weights and the 2019s are over 1/2 lb heavier than the 2017s.
It possible they see a larger market in target shooting vs hunting for the HMR and are pushing it in that direction.
FWIW, when I was out at Jim See’s match a couple weeks back we had a shooter running a Bergara in 308. He had similar accuracy issues, and after checking the usual suspects found that (if I remember right) one of his rail screws had snapped.
That doesn't sound like a Bergara issue to me since they neither provide the rail, nor install it but serves as a reminder to research what the rail manufacturer recommends before you torque. Tight is good, but tight until it snaps, or is on the brink of snapping with any added recoil is counterproductive and will provide a painful learning experience.
Also in for update from OP @BlueLine67
Since I posted about the HMR's barrel contour in this thread, I just wanted to follow up to clear up some of that info. The HMR's barrel profile has not changed from 2017-today. It was listed as a No 5 originally because that is what they were calling it here in the US, but in 2018 they decided to list it as a No 5.5 to standardize it with how their parent company classified the barrel profiles. The No. 6 taper listed in the 2019 catalog was a typo, but they do plan on making it a No. 6 in the future to give it the same contour as the BMP. So, in short, the HMR has a No. 5.5 contour and always has had a No. 5.5 contour. Nothing has changed.
Sorry everybody i haven't had time to get back to the thread cause of working keeping me really busy. The rifle is still at the gunsmith they have tried just about everything they can think of with out voiding any warranty with it. My gunsmith had his teacher look at the rifle and he immeditley noticed that the recrown Bergara did was not concentrical this problem was resolved and the rifle still shot sub par still grouping 1.5 MOA. I'm going to cover as many of the questions in this post as i can. No i do not have another stock or chassis that will fit the 700 footprint and i do not want to buy another one due to the fact that i spent around $1000 for this rifle and do not want to spend another 1000 dollars on a chassis. The gunsmith did take the rifle out of the stock chassis system and checked for excess paint and oil and did not find any. We have ruled out just about everything we can on this side and short of taking the gun and turning it into a custom build and dropping more money. My gunsmith a awesome gunsmith and build precision rifles that are used in competitions and consistently shoot sub half MOA. So i don't think its him either. We have opted to send the rifle back to Bergara again we believe its going to be a barrel issue that is going to require the barrel to be replaced. Overall I am not impressed with Bergara and I really wanted to be i put off buying my Tikka T3X Tac A-1 in 308 to buy this Bergara but it ended up not preforming the way i need it to so ended up buying the Tikka anyways. The Tikka however shoots solid consistant .3-.4 MOA groups with Federal GMM 168 gr. I couldnt be more happy with that rifle. I will keep yall updated when i get the Rifle back again to see what they changed but with the way things are going the store where i purchase my rifles and ammo has stated that if they will not carry Bergara anymore cause they have had 4 HMR's with this same problem and sent them all back with same results.
I bought a Bergara HMR in 300 Win Mag this past April. I did load ladder charge development using RL-22 and now with H1000, both with Hornady brass and 208gr ELD-M bullets with CCI large rifle magnum primers. With both powders I found a velocity node, and loaded to that charge, and 0.2gr either side of the middle of the node, and could not get better than 1.5 MOA.
I am loading the cartridges at mag length, so they are about 0.1” off the lands. I am running the Magpul AICS mags right now.
I have backed the OAl down on several test groups at the most accurate node to see if that would help, and still nothing.
My rail is good, my scope and rings are good, but I cannot figure out what is going on either. I will be checking the action screws soon. I know they are not loose, but maybe they are over-torqued.
Should I be loading the ELD-M’s to 3.340” like Hornady specs, or should 3.575” be fine since I am running load ladder testing?
I am loading the cartridges at mag length, so they are about 0.1” off the lands. I am running the Magpul AICS mags right now.
I have backed the OAl down on several test groups at the most accurate node to see if that would help, and still nothing.
My rail is good, my scope and rings are good, but I cannot figure out what is going on either. I will be checking the action screws soon. I know they are not loose, but maybe they are over-torqued.
Should I be loading the ELD-M’s to 3.340” like Hornady specs, or should 3.575” be fine since I am running load ladder testing?
My b14 hmr is also shooting like crap with the 140 ElDs, the best groups are from 1.25 to 1.5 MOA. I talked with Bergara yesterday and they arranged to take it in for an accuracy check and off the bat the rep was talking about copper fouling. I use Witches brew to remove all copper from my rifles and it works pretty well so I don’t think copper is the issue. I think the rifle is just mediocre. I have a 700 police that shoots .5 consistently and cost me $620 brand new.
And to add more, I can’t even suppress the rifle because it shoots worse. I really think I got unlucky and got a garbage barrel.
Have you tried fgmm 168 or 175 grain ammo ? This is the ammo Bergara recommends for their 308. This is for @BlueLine67.
I would try Federal 130gr. Gold Medal Match Berger if that doesn't show improvement I'd send it back to Bergara and ask them to make good on their sub-MOA promise and hook a new tube on that stick.
Oops just noticed I goofed and it's a .308 not a 6.5 CM robeast2000 is right try the fgmm 168 or 175 gr. and if you don't get improved results it's package time.
So I guess I should ask again, since you never actually answered.
Have you tried the match ammo that Bergara recommends?
As far as reloads tailored for other guns, I would never expect those to run well in any other rifle but the one they were worked up for.
Have you tried the match ammo that Bergara recommends?
As far as reloads tailored for other guns, I would never expect those to run well in any other rifle but the one they were worked up for.
I’ve tried pretty much everything my other rifles like with no results.
I’m not sure who you’re addressing but if it’s me I haven’t talked to bergara about what they recommend, but I have pretty much tried everything on the Hornady match line.
But a $1000 rifle shouldn’t be so picky as to only shoot a certain kind of ammo. I’ve shot Center Compass rifles that weren’t so picky and shot tighter groups.
Provided your skills are up to snuff your results should be different with a HMR, regardless of whether it's the B14, or the Pro. The HMR in my experience shoots better with match ammo, but so do many other rifles that does not make it a "picky" rifle. What you have described without ever answering Tokay444's question sounds like a barrel issue. Provided the muzzle crown didn't get dinged somewhere it would be a manufacturer issue which can happen every now and then even with the best barrel manufacturers. My suggestion to you is contact Bergara and ask for a return ticket to send it in to them to do an evaluation; if there is something wrong with the barrel they should fix it.
I’m actually sending it in this week. I’m sure other people’s HMR shoot well under moa, that’s why I purchased it, because of the reviews here at the hide.
I’m just worried that the rifle will shoot a good 3 shot group for them, because it does shoot an occasional sub moa group specialty 3 shot groups. The problem is that is very inconsistent. See I shoot off a bipod I don’t use bags or a rest like I’m sure they’ll use over at bergara.
