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There are a few posts about them in the Reloading and bolt action sections. This is probably the best place for a post on them. I was lucky enough to get a bit of a preview of them last year and they're pretty damn impressive IMHO. The 230 and 250gr .30 caliber Atips are what really sold me on the idea of building my 300 PRC, and the rifle was/will be built around the bullet.
The 110's and 135's certainly have a place in PRS, especially out west where you can stretch your legs, but I almost think the potential is wasted on 300-800yd plates. I think the real benefit of how these are designed and manufactured will be seen in the 1000+ realm. Very consistent elevation from the consistent CD profiles. I'm hoping to push 1500-2000+ once I get my barrel spun up here in the coming weeks. Combined with the 4dof and doppler data I think it's a killer ELR combo.
Anyway, can't wait to start hearing some more real-world reports with them, and can't wait to get my hands on them, too.
The 110's and 135's certainly have a place in PRS, especially out west where you can stretch your legs, but I almost think the potential is wasted on 300-800yd plates. I think the real benefit of how these are designed and manufactured will be seen in the 1000+ realm. Very consistent elevation from the consistent CD profiles. I'm hoping to push 1500-2000+ once I get my barrel spun up here in the coming weeks. Combined with the 4dof and doppler data I think it's a killer ELR combo.
Anyway, can't wait to start hearing some more real-world reports with them, and can't wait to get my hands on them, too.
Wonder if the 250s will stabilize in my 9 twist 300NM? I’m only 40 feet above sea level.
I think it should work. I asked about it, and a 9 twist will keep them stable, but may suffer some slight drag increase/BC loss. Maybe run into issues on the Alaskan coast in the winter, but most normal temps, even at sea level should work with a 9 twist.
I’ve got 100 back ordered on Midway. We’ll see how it goes. I’m on the Texas coast so low temps are not the norm.
Pretty sure it says in the extended video. I didn't catch the 6mm (I think 1:7.7 or 1:7.5), but the 6.5's both work with 1:8 twists, 1:7.5 might be more appropriate for the 153gr. The 230gr .30 cal is 1:9, and the 250gr is 1:8.5.
Those are suggested rates. Slower rates may still work especially at higher elevation, potentially with some BC loss.
Those are suggested rates. Slower rates may still work especially at higher elevation, potentially with some BC loss.
I'm gonna order some Alco 168's in a little bit.
Hornady said on FB they will be making 7mm too down the line, awesome.
A 7mm would interest me but looking at the 6.5s, the 135 doesn't seem to offer any BC improvement over the 140 ELD-M and the 153 is barely ahead of the 147 ELD-M.
Maybe consistency is the selling point?
The .30s do sound good but the chambering, brakes and cost involved make me not want to try them.
Maybe consistency is the selling point?
The .30s do sound good but the chambering, brakes and cost involved make me not want to try them.
In theory, you'd be able to drive the 135 faster than the 140, however. Even if the BCs come out the same, speed wins.
I was looking at that but people seem to drive the 147 as fast or faster than the 140 so even if it speeds up a bit, I'm not seeing the 135 stand out too much.
I haven't watched the full videos but it would be good to see reloading data so we can see if it's worth changing away from something that is already working.
Consistency might be the thing for ELR shooting and maybe worth the price but most shooting isn't ELR...
I haven't watched the full videos but it would be good to see reloading data so we can see if it's worth changing away from something that is already working.
Consistency might be the thing for ELR shooting and maybe worth the price but most shooting isn't ELR...
I doubt the 153 is being aimed at the standard capacity 6.5 cartridges. The 135 seems better slotted for that, IMO, while still being able to be driven fast in a SAUM, etc.
I think that's a fair assessment. The two I'd consider for PRS are the 110 6mm and the 135 6.5mm. You can run the numbers and balance it out yourself, but the 135 offers the 140's BC, tighter spreads, and faster speeds than either the 140 or 147 with less recoil. They all work. It's which numbers/results matter to you.
- Mar 15, 2018
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The 230 will probably be fine with a 1:10 twist. You might lose some BC but it's not going to be the end of the world.
It would be really nice to see a ELR cup and core 375 bullet... the 350 smk is about it and it isn’t all that great
I think the 135s will be the sweet spot for SAUM.
The 147s are great projectiles, but they can handcuff you depending on your freebore. The .081 GAP chamber is way short for the 147s and takes up a ton of case capacity unless you want to be jammed like 20+ thou.
The 135s on the other hand offer similar BC, but will be less restrictive in short lead chambers because they’re smaller. Couple that with the speed advantage, less recoil, etc. and I think you’re looking at a very promising combination.
Even more excited about those than the 153s.
The 147s are great projectiles, but they can handcuff you depending on your freebore. The .081 GAP chamber is way short for the 147s and takes up a ton of case capacity unless you want to be jammed like 20+ thou.
The 135s on the other hand offer similar BC, but will be less restrictive in short lead chambers because they’re smaller. Couple that with the speed advantage, less recoil, etc. and I think you’re looking at a very promising combination.
Even more excited about those than the 153s.
I called Hornady this morning inquiring about the twist rate needed for the 250 gr .30 cal. The man said 1:8.5, therefore I will order that twist.
Once built, the best place for me to take it is Terrell county, Texas. Good friend of mine has a ranch there, that affords line of sight for +2 miles. I'll find out where these 250's peter out. DA will be between 3000' and 7000' depending on when I go. The barrel will take a few months, but I'll let yall know what I learn. In the mean time, I need to find the dang bullets!
Once built, the best place for me to take it is Terrell county, Texas. Good friend of mine has a ranch there, that affords line of sight for +2 miles. I'll find out where these 250's peter out. DA will be between 3000' and 7000' depending on when I go. The barrel will take a few months, but I'll let yall know what I learn. In the mean time, I need to find the dang bullets!
Did you give him an anticipated velocity?
No, just asked what it took to be stable.
Talked to Greg at Bugholes about 30 minutes ago. He has in stock, 1:8, so I will be going with that. Extra spin past 1500 yards is not a bad thing.
I have read that this was just the initial offerings and that 7mm will be coming.
Interesting video... They really focused on bullet-to-bullet BC-consistency vs. overall-high-BC; I think that was a good point.
Similar to the above post, does anyone have a definitive availability date for 6.5mm bullets?
Depends on what you are looking for, there are some 6.5mm 135gr. available now....
I wonder what freebore would works with this 135s
Did you ever complete the Texas endeavor ? I've done some testing with 230 and 250 AT's out past a mile.
My problem is there is no load data available for either round in the 300WM case. Just curious.
I did.
As is usually the case with slow burn powders, fill up the brass. That's when they start to work well.
After a year and a half of Hornady giving A-Tips to every elr shooter that would take them, 7% of king shooters plan to use them this year. Statistically only one of them has done better in a match using them over their previous bullet.
-Alex
-Alex
That’s interesting. Didn’t know they were giving them out. No one I know was offered atips
Heard from dozens of shooters that they were offered bullets. Hornady told us at SHOT that they planned on winning Ko2M and the best approach is to have as many people as possible use them.That’s interesting. Didn’t know they were giving them out. No one I know was offered atips
-Alex
Interesting. Thanks. Volume does increase your chances of success.
I would like to try them one day , but no time soon not at the price Ive seen them going for . I did try and eventually sort of liked the solid coppers bullets but again only sort of liked them not worth the extra cost compared to normal bullets cost at least that was how I thought of them .
I would have tried the 375cal but they’re never available
Haven't shot them so take this with a grain of salt. The Amax in 50 is a terrible bullet and I would essentially never consider a Jacketed lead core bullet in a large caliber because of the lessons from it. It has nothing to do with how well it is made. The 7 grain distribution in weight is horrid vs a solid but it isn't that big of a deal to weigh and sort them and then load and fire in sequence. The real issue is the fallacy of scaling. X is a great bullet in .224 so we will scale it up to .510 and it will be a great bullet there too. You can almost get away with that on solids but in a jacketed bullet the bearing surface is going to start crippling your velocities fast. Amax is slow as fuck (~2650 fps) because it has a full inch of bearing length at .510 diameter. That is 1.6 square inches of surface area to engrave! A .224 amax has about .20 square inches. A modern .510 solid has .16 or less which is why they are 350 fps faster at the same weight with no pressure signs. This is why ALL medium and large caliber projectiles have a drive band or a Sabot.
There are limits to manufacturing a jacketed bullet in terms of what geometries are really possible so reducing that bearing surface to something manageable is extremely hard. Where the transition is I can't say; maybe a .338 is small enough that it is still fine. Maybe a .375 is too. 416 and above? Probably not. Even the 338 guys tell me they had to drop their velocities...
Who knows. Maybe the weight distribution issues and lower speed will be made up for in long range dynamic stability or something like that and they will still have a good showing at Ko2M. The math suggests that is unlikely but I've been surprised before.
-Alex
I agree it’s not just a scale up thing to make it work. And the atips have a well earned reputation for not always making it to target. There is one benefit to the lead though, and that’s matches where there aren’t camera feeds available to the shooter/spotter. At these distances, knowing you’re just catching the edge of a plate vs just knowing you hit it somewhere l, will gain you hits at some point. Knowing where on the target you’re hitting will let you adjust that 1/4-1/2 plate to help center it up and give a little more leeway
Thus far, the farthest I've ran the 250 gr A-tip is a mile. The barrel has less than 60 rounds down it. Current MV is 2955 fps. My load development was a 700 yard ladder test, followed by two charges shot for groups. Just three rounds in each group, but it held 1/4 MOA at 700 yards.
Weeks later the opportunity to stretch its' legs, I made my farthest ever cold bore hit. 1444 yards. Brought it down .1 and got a second hit. Handed it to the bud of mine that did the lathe work, and get one also. We backed up to 1760. I splashed the first one down wind, corrected and got a second round hit.
So far so good with the .30 cal 250 A-tip.
Got a target pic, it won't load...
Weeks later the opportunity to stretch its' legs, I made my farthest ever cold bore hit. 1444 yards. Brought it down .1 and got a second hit. Handed it to the bud of mine that did the lathe work, and get one also. We backed up to 1760. I splashed the first one down wind, corrected and got a second round hit.
So far so good with the .30 cal 250 A-tip.
Got a target pic, it won't load...
I probably missed it, but what cartridge and load (if you’re comfortable with that) are you using? Thanks
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