Rim X and Trigger Tech Diamond issue

jbell · Jul 16, 2022

I have decided to give the Rim X another try after having FTF, and feeding issues with my first one a wile back. In that rifle I had a Timney 2 stage and ended up having to trim the cocking piece to resolve the FTF from excessive drag on the sear.

This time around I asked you guys what triggers you were using and I called Ray @ Zermatt. Ready said they build their actions for Trigger Tech triggered and that also seemed popular amongst those who contributed to my initial question. So I ordered a new Diamond 2 stage.

After installing it I found the bolt was pretty hard to close and the trigger has a bad hard spot to get through in order to make the shoe start moving in the 1st stage. I inspected everything and didn't see anything odd so I swapped the Diamond from my Vudoo (which has been perfect from the get go) into the Rim X and put the one from the Rim X into the Vudoo. The symptoms stayed with the Rim X.

Having been here before I knew I needed to reduce the height of the cocking piece in the bolt. I took 0.027" off the cocking piece checking it every 0.005". The bolt is easier to close but that damn catch / hard spot is still in the trigger. I put 100-120 rounds through it today after the reduction of the cocking piece and had no failure to fire but the trigger kinda sucks (no fault of the trigger).

Has anyone ran into this with this combo? If so what was your solution? I am going to remove more material from the cocking piece but almost 0.030" is a lot!

Also when I manual depress the sear and break the trigger it feels fine. It's just when it's in the Rim X action and not in the Vudoo. That's with 2 different triggers.

Thank you in advance for your help and thoughts. Oh, and yes I am going to call Zermatt Monday. I'm just trying to sort this out now if I can.

Rimdenter · Jul 16, 2022

Jbell I dont know on that one I shoot the Diamond trigger FS at 4 oz. Any possible bed compound coming into contact anywhere ?

st1650 · Jul 16, 2022

I know it’s no help but I’ve had my RimX since mid 2020 and I’ve probably used 3-4 different Trigger Tech. Diamond single stage then Diamond double stage then back to another Diamond single stage which is what I currently run now. I did have issues initially on day 1 but I simply removed and reinstalled the trigger and it went away. Even since then it’s been totally smooth and fairly reliable.

Rimdenter · Jul 16, 2022

Also check from bottom of cocking lug to rear shroud radius, compare to Vudoo bolt see how much difference there is look for any slight drag on bottom of rear bolt shroud in front of lug the hole locations that locate trigger assy. Could be alittle high were all human.

jbell · Jul 17, 2022

Rimdenter said:
Jbell I dont know on that one I shoot the Diamond trigger FS at 4 oz. Any possible bed compound coming into contact anywhere ?

It occurs with the action in or out of the chassis.

st1650 said:
I know it’s no help but I’ve had my RimX since mid 2020 and I’ve probably used 3-4 different Trigger Tech. Diamond single stage then Diamond double stage then back to another Diamond single stage which is what I currently run now. I did have issues initially on day 1 but I simply removed and reinstalled the trigger and it went away. Even since then it’s been totally smooth and fairly reliable.

I have swapped the two triggers I have between my Vudoo and the Rim X 2 times, just to be sure it wasn’t the trigger or something I was doing (not that it is difficult to install a trigger).

Thank you guys, I’ll keep looking into it today…

jbell · Jul 17, 2022

Rimdenter said:
Also check from bottom of cocking lug to rear shroud radius, compare to Vudoo bolt see how much difference there is look for any slight drag on bottom of rear bolt shroud in front of lug the hole locations that locate trigger assy. Could be alittle high were all human.

I am seeing anything suspicious there, but I was starting to wonder if the cocking piece is pushing the trigger sear forward in some way (in the Remington design there is a forward load with the angled sear surfaces) more than “normal”. However I can’t see how that is possible because the sear is held captive by the roll pin & front trigger pin…

jbell · Jul 17, 2022

I think my next step will be to disassemble both the Vudoo and the Rim X and see if I can get a measurement from the trigger pin to the bottom of the cocking piece. If the Rim X extends further down into the cutout for the trigger I will remove that much more material off the Rim X cocking piece and re-test.

flatland1 · Jul 17, 2022

I received my Rim-X action in August of 2020, and installed a TT Diamond single stage on it as soon as I'd gotten the bbl work finished. Never had any issues with it - basically feels & operates the same as the Diamonds I have on two Gen 1 V22 & one V22T repeaters. Given how consistent the five Bighorn and Zermatt CF actions on my comp rifles are with Jewell HVR & Timney Calvin Elite triggers, it seems odd that Zermatt would have an issue with sear/cocking piece consistency in their rimfire actions. But then, I've never tried a Diamond 2=stage trigger. Looking forward to hearing the eventual solution to this problem...

Rimdenter · Jul 17, 2022

Assuming their manufacturing process to be simular to this, this could have happened. They finished all lathe work after heat treat and tempering. The receiver fits a precision mandrel in a 4th axis with tail stock support y and z axis are center of 4th axis all finish matching is done we rotate to the 2 hole locations that pin trigger assy. We have tool failure center, spot or drill wear if one of the tools walks off center while in process the finish reamer will follow them. This will allow for the trigger assy. To locate incorrectly to far up,back,down or forward normally theres alittle tolarance here not so much up or back due to engagement issues. I always use a precision 2 flute micro carbide endmill to prebore these 2 locations to thwart this common problem of tool walk. Hope this helps

padom · Jul 17, 2022

For easy button RimX triggers. BixNAndy Tacsport Pro 2 stage with the correct low sear...... it doesn't get more drop in then that and personally best trigger out there. TT Diamond wasn't even close for me. Sold all of my TT years ago and I have 10 or so BNA Tacsport Pro 2 stages now....you want a drop in no messing with on your RimX....get it with the correct low sear

jbell · Jul 17, 2022

Rimdenter said:
Assuming their manufacturing process to be simular to this, this could have happened. They finished all lathe work after heat treat and tempering. The receiver fits a precision mandrel in a 4th axis with tail stock support y and z axis are center of 4th axis all finish matching is done we rotate to the 2 hole locations that pin trigger assy. We have tool failure center, spot or drill wear if one of the tools walks off center while in process the finish reamer will follow them. This will allow for the trigger assy. To locate incorrectly to far up,back,down or forward normally theres alittle tolarance here not so much up or back due to engagement issues. I always use a precision 2 flute micro carbide endmill to prebore these 2 locations to thwart this common problem of tool walk. Hope this helps

It will be hard for me to measure the fore and aft location of the pin holes but I just measured the pin location vs the cocking piece (measured several times, I'm very confident in my measurements as I do a lot of precision measuring for work):

Vudoo cocking piece to bottom of rear pin:
0.188"

Rim X cocking piece to bottom of rear pin:
0.190"

Rim X cocking piece width: 0.165"

Vudoo cocking piece width: 0.140"

Trigger Tech housing width: 0.204"

Trigger Tech bottom of rear pin to top of the sear when the sear is loaded in the cocked position: 0.215"

So Vudoo sear engagement is: 0.027"
& Rim X: 0.025"

So as you can see I now have it slightly favoring the Rim X after removing either 0.035" or 0.040" (I can't remember exactly now but it was one of the two) from the Rim X cocking piece. I don't think I want much less sear engagement than this. I think I'm going to stop for now until I talk to Ray tomorrow hopefully.

littlepod · Jul 17, 2022

Yes I've experienced the TT issue with the RimX. I was told to send it in to Zermatt and have them time it for me. Ended up with just doing a Bix n Andy Taco Sport Pro 2-stage instead.

jbell · Jul 17, 2022

padom said:
For easy button RimX triggers. BixNAndy Tacsport Pro 2 stage with the correct low sear...... it doesn't get more drop in then that and personally best trigger out there. TT Diamond wasn't even close for me. Sold all of my TT years ago and I have 10 or so BNA Tacsport Pro 2 stages now....you want a drop in no messing with on your RimX....get it with the correct low sear

I almost did but Ray at Zermatt specifically said all of their actions are designed to use the Trigger Tech. But the Bix is my last resort plan.

jbell · Jul 18, 2022

I spent a little more time troubleshooting the trigger issue and now that the cocking piece and sear engagement has been adjusted to within a few thousands of my Vudoo (which both triggers operate perfect in) I have been looking at timing. I am starting to wonder how moving the cocking piece back a little work, both with the trigger feel and still having enough spring pressure to fire reliably.

The reason I started on cocking piece height (more correctly depth into the trigger) is that was the problem with my first rim X and how most seem to address issues with their actions (Bix trigger). I checked the trigger for the hard spot / binding as I was closing the bolt and found it didn't start until the bolt was rotated about 1/4-1/2 way into battery. This has me curious...

Zermatt Arms · Jul 18, 2022

Is it the trigger pull that's giving you issues or the bolt closure?

If it's the trigger pull, I don't know that there's anything in the action itself that can be modified to accommodate a smoother pull.

If it's the bolt closure, it's likely as simple as a timing job to eliminate any cock or fall on close during the bolt close. We can get them inside of .005" with incremental changes. If you want it closer than that, the cocking piece would have to be ground.

Either way, call and talk to Aaron and explain what you've got going on. I can't find anything myself in this information that would explain what you're feeling. (this is me saying "I don't know" and doing my best to put you in touch with the correct person to help)

Thank you - Ray

jbell · Jul 18, 2022

Zermatt Arms said:
Is it the trigger pull that's giving you issues or the bolt closure?

If it's the trigger pull, I don't know that there's anything in the action itself that can be modified to accommodate a smoother pull.

If it's the bolt closure, it's likely as simple as a timing job to eliminate any cock or fall on close during the bolt close. We can get them inside of .005" with incremental changes. If you want it closer than that, the cocking piece would have to be ground.

Either way, call and talk to Aaron and explain what you've got going on. I can't find anything myself in this information that would explain what you're feeling. (this is me saying "I don't know" and doing my best to put you in touch with the correct person to help)

Thank you - Ray

Ray, thank you for the reply. I will give Aaron a call later today when I get time. But it was a very stiff bolt close and the trigger binding in the very beginning of it's travel (like it is stuck in the forward most position but once enough force is applied to overcome it the rest of the 1st stage and the break are normal). The stiff bolt close had been greatly improved by reducing the cocking piece, but the sticky trigger is still there. It's not the trigger as it's happing with both of my TT Diamond triggers that work normal in a different action. I'm sure we will get it sorted out and I really appreciate all your help.

jbell · Aug 4, 2022

Just to wrap this thread up. I sent the rifle back to Aaron @ Zermatt who tried several different triggers, bolt assemblies and my trigger in other Zermatt actions and determined that it is a trigger problem. Aaron was great to work with and turned this around in a day of receiving it for me. So thank you to all at Zermatt.

I now have a Bix Tachsport Pro 2 stage in the action all the issues are resolved, the bolt is much easier to close and the trigger is smooth throughout the range of motion.

padom · Aug 4, 2022

jbell said:
Just to wrap this thread up. I sent the rifle back to Aaron @ Zermatt who tried several different triggers, bolt assemblies and my trigger in other Zermatt actions and determined that it is a trigger problem. Aaron was great to work with and turned this around in a day of receiving it for me. So thank you to all at Zermatt.

I now have a Bix Tachsport Pro 2 stage in the action all the issues are resolved, the bolt is much easier to close and the trigger is smooth throughout the range of motion.

Enjoy!

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