Bino recommendation

I just got a semi-shiny new to me set of Swaro NL Pure 10x42 from brown santa last night. Got a good deal from another member here on the Hide. I have been an optics junkie since I started hunting, and everything I have owned has all been compared to Swaro. A quick search on the google fu will likely result in tons of reviews and threads that say "get this bino, almost as good as Swarovski for half the price". So, I have had all sorts of different sets of binos. Meopta's (15s are pretty amazing), Zeiss Conquest line, Leupold, etc. I spent about 45 minutes last night at last light looking through the new to me NL Pure's. Holy Shit. They are pretty spectacular. The field of view is almost unbelievable and the clarity and light gathering are top notch. They also come in a nice compact package that fits my hand perfect.

If you are set on that budget (which I can understand) those will be out of reach. But if you can cough up the extra scratch in my opinion it is worth it 100%. If the 1k mark is what you are set on, there are tons of choices out there now that fit the bill. Older Leica models, used Zeiss models (I saw a set of the Victory SF 10x42 here for 1500 one time) would all fit the bill. Kowa makes a good bino for the price, Maven's are decent, Meopta (I found the 10s lacking compared to the 15s). If it were me I would scour the used section on here for a set of used El's, SFs, or Noctivids. Might pay a little more, but all of those are truly "alpha" glass and have proven track records.

I think I saw a set of EL's in the PX for a pretty good price too. EL's set the standard for a loooong time and the only thing different with them is a slightly smaller field of view than the Pures. You can find some great deals on EL's now.

In that $1,000 price range it's (in no particular order)

Kowa Genesis

GPO Passion HD's

Zeiss Conquest HD's

Leupold Santiam

As a long standing supporting vendor here on the forum it is our pleasure to assist in discussing different options and opportunities with you. Please give a call, 516-217-1000, when you have a few moments

gr8fuldoug said:

In that $1,000 price range it's (in no particular order)

Kowa Genesis

GPO Passion HD's

Zeiss Conquest HD's

Leupold Santiam

As a long standing supporting vendor here on the forum it is our pleasure to assist in discussing different options and opportunities with you. Please give a call, 516-217-1000, when you have a few moments.

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How would you compare the Leupold Santiam 15x56 vs the Steiner HX 15x56?

I'd say close with the edge going to the Leupold for brightness, but value overall to the Steiner

Do you have the old version of the Vipers or the current version?

In my experience, there isn’t a noticeable jump in optical quality from the newest Vipers to other binos in $1K and under range.

The prior model Vipers left a lot to be desired.

At the $1K price point the best option by far is both the Kowa and the Conquest HD's. You have to push above $1700 or so to get into the next tier.

The vipers, razors and most other products in that price range fall far behind.

the swarovski el 12x50 field pro will suit your needs, I love mine and its high end in the market line up.

I'd also look at a set of Swaro SLCs on the used market. I've got a set of 8x42mm that I like. With the new NLs the ELs and SLCs have dropped in price.

Open box Kowa Genesis 10.5x44 from @gr8fuldoug

I was in the same position as you, and pulled the trigger on the above a few weeks. I'm very impressed. Amazing glass and quality. And even though it's "open box", it's a brand new set of binos, doesn't look like anyone has touched them before me.

I have 2 Meopta's I bought from Doug. The 15x and a pair of Meostar B1plus 8x. Both outstanding optics. The 8x are outstanding for hunting.

For your price point give Maven a try, they have a try before you buy program and offer some amazing performance for the price.

The B1.2 10x42 are the lighter weight Schmidt Pechan design while the B.2 9x45 are the heavier Abbe Koenig design with excellent light gathering. I do not recommend the 11x45 as they are not as refined image wise as the 9x45’s. I do not have personal experience with the B1.2 but they seem to get good reviews from others.

Glassaholic said:

For your price point give Maven a try, they have a try before you buy program and offer some amazing performance for the price.

The B1.2 10x42 are the lighter weight Schmidt Pechan design while the B.2 9x45 are the heavier Abbe Koenig design with excellent light gathering. I do not recommend the 11x45 as they are not as refined image wise as the 9x45’s. I do not have personal experience with the B1.2 but they seem to get good reviews from others.

Binoculars

Whether it’s our premium B Series glass or our dynamic mid-range C Series, our award-winning binoculars line-up is designed to compete with the world's best performing binoculars.

mavenbuilt.com

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I just got a pair of their B1.2 8x42 binos for my wife so she can watch the birds in our backyard. We both like them but I must admit this is my first higher end pair of binos.

kthomas said:

Open box Kowa Genesis 10.5x44 from @gr8fuldoug

I was in the same position as you, and pulled the trigger on the above a few weeks. I'm very impressed. Amazing glass and quality. And even though it's "open box", it's a brand new set of binos, doesn't look like anyone has touched them before me.

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This is how Doug sells for less than map.

shields shtr said:

I just got a semi-shiny new to me set of Swaro NL Pure 10x42 from brown santa last night. Got a good deal from another member here on the Hide. I have been an optics junkie since I started hunting, and everything I have owned has all been compared to Swaro. A quick search on the google fu will likely result in tons of reviews and threads that say "get this bino, almost as good as Swarovski for half the price". So, I have had all sorts of different sets of binos. Meopta's (15s are pretty amazing), Zeiss Conquest line, Leupold, etc. I spent about 45 minutes last night at last light looking through the new to me NL Pure's. Holy Shit. They are pretty spectacular. The field of view is almost unbelievable and the clarity and light gathering are top notch. They also come in a nice compact package that fits my hand perfect.

If you are set on that budget (which I can understand) those will be out of reach. But if you can cough up the extra scratch in my opinion it is worth it 100%. If the 1k mark is what you are set on, there are tons of choices out there now that fit the bill. Older Leica models, used Zeiss models (I saw a set of the Victory SF 10x42 here for 1500 one time) would all fit the bill. Kowa makes a good bino for the price, Maven's are decent, Meopta (I found the 10s lacking compared to the 15s). If it were me I would scour the used section on here for a set of used El's, SFs, or Noctivids. Might pay a little more, but all of those are truly "alpha" glass and have proven track records.

I think I saw a set of EL's in the PX for a pretty good price too. EL's set the standard for a loooong time and the only thing different with them is a slightly smaller field of view than the Pures. You can find some great deals on EL's now.

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Vortex UHDs are demo used at Eurroptic rn @ 1300$. Otherwise, as stated above, if you can get the budget space then spend the extra and get the Swaros or Zeiss

mi223 said:

Thanks for the recommendations guys! Not sure how many of these I will be able to find local. Was hoping to put eyes on several options before deciding. We will see what I can find

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Like I said, Maven has a try before you buy option -

I used this with the 9x45 and 11x45 units. I also used it with the 8x30's. If you decide you like the optics, you can customize them with different colors and patterns etc.

Glassaholic said:

Like I said, Maven has a try before you buy option -

DEMO OPTICS

Try before you buy: it makes sense to us. Find out more about the Maven demo program and select the demo optics you want to test out in the field.

mavenbuilt.com

I used this with the 9x45 and 11x45 units. I also used it with the 8x30's. If you decide you like the optics, you can customize them with different colors and patterns etc.

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So which did you like best?

Glassaholic said:

Like I said, Maven has a try before you buy option -

DEMO OPTICS

Try before you buy: it makes sense to us. Find out more about the Maven demo program and select the demo optics you want to test out in the field.

mavenbuilt.com

I used this with the 9x45 and 11x45 units. I also used it with the 8x30's. If you decide you like the optics, you can customize them with different colors and patterns etc.

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I used their demo program to test their 18x B5. Outstanding and beat the Vortex UHD 18x I had in the field at the same time. If I hadn't really wanted a LRF bino the Maven would not have been returned.

Wound up buying the Leica Geovid-R 15x LRF binos. Despite what many will tell you (retailers included) their image is fantastic—or at least my sample’s is—and I found that even a 15x bino replaces my spotter for prairie dog shooting. The LRF part is decent but not as fast or long-ranging as my Fury 5000. Works fine for Pdogs out to the ranges I shoot at (max 550-600).

Leica has a cheaper 15x LRF bino out now; no idea how good they are and if the prev model is still sold.

My point here is that Maven’s demo program is gold for evaluating their stuff, especially to compare them risk-free against other stuff you currently have.

How do the 15x and 18x Mavens compare to the 15x Meopta Meostars? Or 15x Swaro's?

Hickswr said:

In my experience, there isn’t a noticeable jump in optical quality from the newest Vipers to other binos in $1K and under range.

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That’s what I found.
I replaced mine with the zeiss, and side by side I couldn’t really see an difference.

Then got the vortex razors and still couldn’t tell a difference side by side.

Then got the razor UHDs, and finally could notice more clarity, and better color correction.

All that was about 80% more in price for like MAYBE IF 10% gain in optical performance. Just the nature of optics once you get into these price ranges.

avidflyer said:

So which did you like best?

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Between the 9x45 and 11x45 it was no competition, the 9x45's had a much more pleasing image. We were comparing side by side the Swaro's EL 10x42 and while the Swaro's were better overall, we were surprised at how well the Maven's compared.

Glassaholic said:

Between the 9x45 and 11x45 it was no competition, the 9x45's had a much more pleasing image. We were comparing side by side the Swaro's EL 10x42 and while the Swaro's were better overall, we were surprised at how well the Maven's compared.

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What exactly is better about the Swaro's?

Edge to edge clarity?
Contrast?
Color?
Low light performance?
Ergonomics? Weight?

Been using 10x50 razor HD for a few years and been very happy. Was watching elk at 1400+ yards yesterday and could make out spikes from cows. Plenty of detail. I wouldnt go much more than 10x unless using a tripod. For general hunting I'll stick with 8-10x. I've been pretty hard on binos, they get handled and banged around much more so than scopes, so for me, the Vortex warranty is good peace of mind.

kthomas said:

What exactly is better about the Swaro's?

Edge to edge clarity?
Contrast?
Color?
Low light performance?
Ergonomics? Weight?

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Yes, edge to edge clarity for sure, the Swaro's look just as good at the edges as they do in the center (yes, there is some falloff naturally but it's so minimal). Slight edge in contrast and color as well, but the Maven's do surprisingly well in this area, at least to my eyes. Maven's struggle a bit with CA but not horrible. Low light performance, the Maven's held their own, but they also have a larger exit pupil (9x45 vs. 10x42) so not a big surprise there, I've heard the NL Pure do even better than the EL's with light transmission. Ergonomics go to Swaro, the Maven's are fairly big but a lot of that is due to the Abbe Koenig design - most bino's using this prism method are larger and heavier, it used to be that they offered greater light transmission than the Schmidt-Pechan but latest technologies with the latter have proven very effective which is probably why Maven came out with their B1.2 series.

Since I don't do much low light hunting anymore I'm thinking my next set will be some NL Pure 10x32's, they have some of the best FOV for a 10x scope on the market and in a small compact package I can take them anywhere with me.

Here's a chart I've put together on 10x (and close) binos, just a quick spec check, one thing to notice is the FOV values, it really does make a difference IMO

Glassaholic said:

Yes, edge to edge clarity for sure, the Swaro's look just as good at the edges as they do in the center (yes, there is some falloff naturally but it's so minimal). Slight edge in contrast and color as well, but the Maven's do surprisingly well in this area, at least to my eyes. Maven's struggle a bit with CA but not horrible. Low light performance, the Maven's held their own, but they also have a larger exit pupil (9x45 vs. 10x42) so not a big surprise there, I've heard the NL Pure do even better than the EL's with light transmission. Ergonomics go to Swaro, the Maven's are fairly big but a lot of that is due to the Abbe Koenig design - most bino's using this prism method are larger and heavier, it used to be that they offered greater light transmission than the Schmidt-Pechan but latest technologies with the latter have proven very effective which is probably why Maven came out with their B1.2 series.

Since I don't do much low light hunting anymore I'm thinking my next set will be some NL Pure 10x32's, they have some of the best FOV for a 10x scope on the market and in a small compact package I can take them anywhere with me.

Here's a chart I've put together on 10x (and close) binos, just a quick spec check, one thing to notice is the FOV values, it really does make a difference IMO

View attachment 7960801

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Awesome, appreciate the detailed response!

Swaro EL/NL are alpha for sure, and way over the OP's budget.

In the 1k realm I can't recommend Kowa Genesis highly enough. I have Swaro EL 10x32s to compare to, and the Kowa more than holds its own.

I've had to buy all my Kowa kit sight unseen since I don't have a local dealer, and it's never disappointed, nor have I had a single issue (binos or spotters).

Joevolfan said:

How would you compare the Leupold Santiam 15x56 vs the Steiner HX 15x56?

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I don't know how Doug would compare, but I've had the Steiner HX and was not that impressed - heavy CA and IQ was wanting IMO. I felt they were priced accordingly as they are some of the cheapest 15x binos out, but the rule of "you get what you pay for" applies here.

Tasco at Walmarts had some. Prolly find some .270 Corelockt I reckon. Mmmmmhhmmmm.

kthomas said:

How do the 15x and 18x Mavens compare to the 15x Meopta Meostars? Or 15x Swaro's?

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No idea. But for my field “workflow,” having a LRF in a 15x bino saves me so much eye strain and weight over a spotter/little LRF combo that my Leica is worth gold to me. And Leica makes top, top, top photo lenses. I have some. Current prices of those would make you blanch, it’s insane (I bought before that happened!).

My dad has both older Swaro 10x binos and a 65mm spotter that frankly never impressed me at all. I realize newer models are better; the brief look I had a several years ago through a pair of Pures left me with a good vibe. Big FOV.

It seems to me, through reading various reviews of high end glass, that at this high level the bino/spotter designers are playing with preferences vs. raw image quality. For example, Swaro spotters seem to go for a flat field (so I’ve read) vs say a Zeiss Harpia that may have some fuzzy edges (not everything is crystal clear). Again, from reading reviews and impressions.

Sounds bad for the Zeiss, but then I’ve read the Zeiss’ “look” in that particular spotter gives you the ability to more easily tell what object is in front of another vs. the Swaro.

My Leica camera lenses have a Leica “look” that is hard to explain and is something some may never see. But it’s there, it’s similar to the Zeiss approach, and at this rarified level it all becomes preference. My Leica 15x LRF binos have the same “look” as my camera lenses and it’s a delight to my eye. The way near and far objects are optically separated and resolve into focus is wonderful and I prefer them to the Maven 18x (or what I remember about them).

The Mavens leaned more to the flat-field look.

My advice is don’t let retailers or others tell you want you want. Try to look through a bunch of manufacturer’s binos. If you were in MN I’d let you look through my Leicas.

Edit: I literally had one retailer tell me the 15x Leica Geovid-R I now own was about as good optically as my Vortex Fury 5000. Another said it was an old design and implied it was quite subpar.

Either I got super lucky or these retail people have never looked through a pair or did so long ago and forgot their impression. Or they’re trying to upsell me? Or maybe I don’t know what I’m talking about, as I haven’t used the latest from other brands out in the field.

The only reason I bought the Leicas was the 15x + LRF combo, and after I opened the box I couldn’t believe the image. I was like, “WTF? Thought these were supposed to be horseshit.”

Unless you’re going to spend EL/NL money just get some BX4’s and rock on. They’re excellent binos and are half of your budget with the current rebate going, I’m about to buy myself another pair.

With 12’s and 15’s just keep in mind that they’re pretty much going to be dedicated to use with a tripod.

The BX5 15’s are very nice and the next best thing to 15x SLC’s.

redneckbmxer24 said:

The BX5 15’s are very nice and the next best thing to 15x SLC’s.

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I like BX5, spent 2 full days in a national level PRS match as an RO using a pair and came away wishing I could take them home. MUCH better than Steiner HX 15x56, which I have owned.

Got a side by side with BX5 and a pair of Meopta 15x56. IMO Meopta fills the “next best thing to SLC” category, BX5 is still an excellent choice.

mi223 said:

If I can't find anything local and have to order I may look at going with Maven. I really don't like ordering optics without looking first. Even with a good return/ exchange program I like knowing what I am buying.

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Maven has a demo program in which you get a supposedly “used” bino and can return them in something like two weeks. You can also buy that pair at a reduced price.

The Maven B5 18x I demoed was in flawless condition and better than the Vortex 18x UHD Razor I had along at the same time. Only reason I didn’t buy them was because I decided I really wanted a LRF in there. Only option for that is a Leica LRF 15x, which I bought.

15x binos totally replaced my spotter for pdog shooting.

mi223 said:

I am aware of mavens try it program. It still seems like a hassle to me to ship back and forth.

Also planning on these being on a tripod or window mount.

Leopold bx 4 pro guide 12x50 on sale at cabelas for 669 look like they may be a good option as well with money left in my pocket. I am going to try to get to cabelas this weekend and get hands on some.

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No more hassle than driving to Cabela’s; you just drive to the shipper instead (only IF you don’t like them and if you can’t have the shipper pick them up).

But hey, it’s your life and money.