Importance of changing Lop/eyerelief?

Spuhr · Sep 18, 2022

Modern High magnified scopes are really picky with eyerelief and not forgiving at all.
Mostly shooters adapt and do the best they can in the situation but I belive as I see a need of it that the distance in the future will be easy to change.
Different clothing, ballistic armour, shooting stances all are moving you’r eye away from or put it to close to the scope.
100 years ago it didnt matter if distance from eye to iron sight was 12 or 14”.
30-40 years ago magnification was way less and this the eyerelief less sensitive.

So why do we in 2022 use gear that we have to compensate by forcing neck to get closer or further away for the wrong eyerelief?

The easyest solution is to change LOP so eye comes at correct distance to the optic.

I assume for a proffessional sniper it is way more problematic as a five hour standoff in a weird shootingposition probably get very tiresome?

I been shooting Sako TRG folder since 2010 and it was an eyeopener.
Really easy to change Lop, but sadly without memory so if trying to change it on the run it can easaly be to short or to long.

On Sics chassi this was my first and most important festure, to have a quick change LOP with memory so i have two positions that I preset and then alternate betwen.
And its done in a second.

I use different LOP due to different positions and prone gets usally around 1” longer Lop.
Different clothing changes Lop a lot to.

Pictures here is for my main huntingrifle that I made a similar solution some years ago.
This is not a product, its a prototype and it makes my life easyer.

So what is you’r opinions about the eyerelief issue?
Does it bother you?

rustyinbend · Sep 18, 2022

I use QD ring mounts from American Defense Manufacturing which allows me to vary my eye relief easily, and when changed to a different spot on the rail, only takes a shot or two to re-zero, and is never more than 1/2 MOA off when I remove or move the scope. It also has the advantage of freeing up a lot of room in my gun safe with the optics removed, allowing for storage of MORE GUNS !!!

CK1.0 · Sep 18, 2022

This kind of sounds like a solution looking for a problem...

We don't set up our rifles like they did 30-40 years ago (unless one is doing it wrong). The modern practice is to run a slightly shorter LOP than was normally used in the past along with higher rings/mounts for a more "heads up" position, that, combined with the more forgiving/generous eye-relief most modern scopes provide, negates messing around with the LOP on a properly setup rifle.

JMHO but I think it's a grave mistake to constantly be fooling with the fitment of one's rifle, changing things depending on the scenario. If one's LOP requires them to adjust it 1" or more depending on the position, then IMO, the LOP was never set up correctly in the first place.

Shooting a precision rifle already has us managing myriad variables... IMHO there's no reason to throw anymore into the mix unnecessarily. I'm all for the modern stocks/chassis that let us adjust them to fit bespoke to us, but once I get mine dialed in I want to lock it down, set it and forget it.

One man's "on-the-fly adjustment" is another man's "shit that can get knocked loose and fuck me up".

Spuhr · Sep 18, 2022

Nobody have to use the LOP adjustment on the fly, it’s still there so you fast can change it for Winther clothing, wife or kids shooting or actually optimizing that really slow but tricky shot.
There is still a lot of situations when it’s great even if you never do it on the fly.

Håkan

Spuhr · Sep 18, 2022

I would not move scope around, espesially not in the field, on the fly as there is always a slight risk that some dirt get trapped betwen mount and picatinny.

High Desert duck · Sep 19, 2022

I’m not trying to throw any shade here. But if you shoot a PRS match and look at the top competitors no one is adjusting length of pull or moving scopes. Even when they would have time in between stages i.e. just shot a standing barricade stage and the next stage is all 900 yard plus all prone. If your eye relief is super small /fine on your high mag scope run less magnification on that scope or buy a scope with a better eye box. My Gen 3 razor has a wider range of eye relief than my gen2. My Gen 2 is far superior to a PST2 I had. Which is much better than an old Nikon I had. And each one with a bigger eye box had a higher top end magnification.

I’d say I agree with @CK1.0 about modern setups vs the old as low as possible scope height of days past.

357Max · Sep 19, 2022

High Desert duck said:
I’m not trying to throw any shade here. But if you shoot a PRS match and look at the top competitors no one is adjusting length of pull or moving scopes. Even when they would have time in between stages i.e. just shot a standing barricade stage and the next stage is all 900 yard plus all prone. If your eye relief is super small /fine on your high mag scope run less magnification on that scope or buy a scope with a better eye box. My Gen 3 razor has a wider range of eye relief than my gen2. My Gen 2 is far superior to a PST2 I had. Which is much better than an old Nikon I had. And each one with a bigger eye box had a higher top end magnification.

I’d say I agree with @CK1.0 about modern setups vs the old as low as possible scope height of days past.

I've done it both ways in PRS. Granted I'm not a top competitor, but not to shabby. If I'm running the Xylo I do adjust lop for prone to standing. If running the Manners TCS I don't. I did notice when shooting the craft target I have a more consistent poi between positions via Xylo and adjusting lop. YMMV.

@Spuhr - I'm sure your sics chassis is excellent, but so are AI, ARC, MDT, MPA, KRG, etc etc. The market is flooded with great chassis. Good for us, not so much for you.

I'm on a Spuhr strike until you release the Large Frame Monolithic AR you teased us with a few years ago. The design features in that looked exceptional & unique. You would have very little if any competition in that niche.

Any news you can share on the AR mono platform?

Spuhr · Sep 20, 2022

What top competitors are and not are using are somewhat relevant but not totally.
First we have a copycat thing where most shooters look at other winners and get a feeling ”if I just had that feature I would Gain a few more points and possibly win”
So it becomes fashion and sometimes for a good reason sometimes not.

Next important factor is sponsoring, many shooters are sponsored and thus biased.
And as the game is very expansive the sponsoring makes their choises different than if they should spend their own money.

I tend to listen more to competitors without the brand names on the jersey….

Spuhr · Sep 20, 2022

When it comes to the ERS I might and not might continue with it, the basic idea is as good as it was then but there is some issues left that I am less satisfied with.
So I am continue to play with POI issues on AR but temporarily went another route.
Here is one of the prototypes currently in testing

Back to the chassis, most shooters that use a non adjustable Lop are fine with that but when they change to a chassi with adjustable Lop they use it and prefers that

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