Love to see the new Ruger SFAR chambered in this (or aftermarket barrels)... Large Cal, AR15 sized frame.
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Ruger® SFAR™ Autoloading Rifle Models
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Well, a 1:3 twist rate at 1,000 fps has the bullet doing the same RPM as a 1:9 twist at 3,000 fps. I don't believe I've ever heard of complaints of that 300gr bullet not holding up to a 1:9 @ 3,000.
Or, just load some up without the suppressor and shoot them to find out. You should be doing that anyway for any suppressed loading.
Is everyone sizing their brass for 8.6 first and then cutting to length? I was cutting brass to length today and had one piece get mixed in that had not been sized. With standard length of 1.685, I have been cutting .01 less to 1.675. The unsized 6.5 creedmoor brass was cut to 1.675 and it left just a little of the neck. I wasn't sure what the length after sizing would be but was surprised when it came out at 1.681. And it was a lot easier to size, too.
FWIW, in most wildcat forming operations trimming is advisable after forming because the forming process can leave the necks uneven. If you find the process easier after trimming first though, it might be worth considering trimming slightly long, then forming, then trimming again after the first fireforming shot (if necessary). But that is more work.
Thanks for the good advice. I'll just continue to to form then trim. Annealing makes a big difference so it's really not so difficult.
Thanks. My gunsmith couldn’t be bothered to fix it… so I ended up using a 5 lb sledge to rotate and extract the bolt. Photos linked below. I’m having a serious debate with myself about reusing the barrel. My upper and bolt are shot, and I can’t find a replacement bolt without the carrier.
Contact faxon! I'm sure they'll fix you up!Thanks. My gunsmith couldn’t be bothered to fix it… so I ended up using a 5 lb sledge to rotate and extract the bolt. Photos linked below. I’m having a serious debate with myself about reusing the barrel. My upper and bolt are shot, and I can’t find a replacement bolt without the carrier.
That case sure had the squeeze put on it! The chamber looks very tight or something? Primer pocket went too? I'm not for sure if thats what I'm seeing or not.
WOW that looks like it was way over pressure. I'd send that back to Faxon to have it checked over before trying to use it again.Thanks. My gunsmith couldn’t be bothered to fix it… so I ended up using a 5 lb sledge to rotate and extract the bolt. Photos linked below. I’m having a serious debate with myself about reusing the barrel. My upper and bolt are shot, and I can’t find a replacement bolt without the carrier.
Having the same issues with the brass rippling. Tried to bump the shoulder on several small attempts. Tried wiping neck & shoulder in case of too much lube. Tried annealing first and still no joy. Tried running a .30 expander before the .338, again no joy. Anyone have any ideas?I've been working on starting to reload for 8.6 blk and figure it would be good to start a thread and share information specific to reloading.
Q has some tech data posted on their website here - https://liveqordie.com/86-technical-data/
Cartridge Print - https://store-fwcq7xdl4a.mybigcommerce.com/content/8.6BLK CARTRIDGE.pdf
Chamber Print - https://store-fwcq7xdl4a.mybigcommerce.com/content/8.6BLK CHAMBER.pdf
The first hurdle was figuring out a way to resize brass since factory brass I'd imagine is a ways out. I did manage to get my hands on a set of prototype 8.6 blk reloading dies that I'll be using.
Left is a Q head stamped piece of 8.6 blk brass, the right is once fired Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor
I noticed at first I was getting some ripples in the neck when I did a full length resize and neck up from 6.5 to 8.6 all in one step.
Running the brass through an Annealeez proved to give much better results when pushing the shoulder back.
Try different brass, and/or try annealing further back from the original shoulder. Some brass just doesn't form well.
You also might want to polish the shoulder area of your die; if friction is a bit high there then it won't form well. Unfortunately it's pretty common for a lot of bottleneck dies to have a smooth body and neck but a rougher shoulder section.
That was ugly; overpressure for sure, not 22K, more like 80K. I wonder if the bullet had a clean release or not a clean release contributing to the over pressure.Thanks. My gunsmith couldn’t be bothered to fix it… so I ended up using a 5 lb sledge to rotate and extract the bolt. Photos linked below. I’m having a serious debate with myself about reusing the barrel. My upper and bolt are shot, and I can’t find a replacement bolt without the carrier.
Initially, to get a baseline on neck thickness I loaded up several rounds using the Hornady 285 ELD that measured around .3684 (chamber print is .368) at the base of the case neck, while these rounds provided .0018-.0022 total clearence at the center of the neck. In theory, this round would chamber and .0018 while tight, is enough for the bullet to release from the center of the neck. However, with the heel of the bullet seated below the cartridge neck shoulder junction, that lack of clearance at the neck base becomes a issue to me as the cartridge neck base will be a press fit into the chamber. Thus, I turned all my brass to provide .0035-.004 clearance and .005 won’t hurt either.
BTW, Midway has AR308 bolts in stock, product # 807434
I'm gonna say it's more likely he double charged that one, or at least severely overcharged it. Everyone insists they didn't after something like this, but mistakes happen.
For that reason, I prefer to use subsonic loads that fill the case, or at least can't be double charged, whenever possible. But it's not always possible.
For that reason, I prefer to use subsonic loads that fill the case, or at least can't be double charged, whenever possible. But it's not always possible.
Good advice to try different brass and anneal further back from the original shoulder. I have ruined well over a dozen cases in my journey to reload 8.6 Blackout. I had rippling and other problems but got straightened out by annealing further from the original shoulder, changing lube and sizing neck first in .30 caliber and then the entire form to 8.6 Blackout. I started out with once-fired Hornady and used them to experiment. I had been using Imperial sizing wax with great success for years but not with these. I was using imperial graphite to lube inside necks. I am amazed how the homemade lanolin solution makes such a big difference. Lubing is more evenly applied than I have ever seen. And it gets inside neck if you use 6.5 Guys ( http://www.65guys.com/brass-case-resizing-lube/ ) directions. So now my Hornady work perfectly. I have also used two other brands with great success: Starline and Nosler. Both are fine but I think the Nosler are a little better. I bought both of these brands because I found them on sale. Shootersproshop has blem 6.5 Creedmoor for about $37 per 50 (Midsouth gets $120 for 100). New brass is expensive. So, better annealing, different lube and two stage neck sizing has been the trick for me. I'm using the Hornady for 185 gr CX, Starline for 300 gr. and Nosler for 225 gr Nosler solid copper.
just loaded 25 350gr Makers in mod 6.5 H brass . Built a AR10 pistol off a 12 " faxon and have a 16" Q barrel am changing on my 6.5 Fix. Also got picked for one of the 1 in 50 kits ... at the dealer for me to do the Form 4 on.
Not specifically on ammo, but kind of interested in doing a setup on the cheap. Someone mentioned Mack brothers as a solid rem 700 action, then snag a faxon or mos tek barrel. I’d like to try the 8” and focus mostly on Subs. Don’t really want a “chassis-looking” chassis , but can anyone recommend a more traditional looking stock that has the V-blocks or something similar so the barreled action can be closer to drop in without bedding, etc? Would like to use a detachable mag.
Had something like this aesthetic in mind. Would appreciate any tips on actions, stock/chassis and the like.
Had something like this aesthetic in mind. Would appreciate any tips on actions, stock/chassis and the like.
Checking back in to see if anyone has figured this out yet on which Dillon powder funnel is best?
I'm also wondering now what the velocity of the Gorilla ammo is for those same rounds I purchased as well. First time out at the range I was seeing ejection easily at 1-2 o'clock with my custom 8" Aero M5 build with Faxon AR10 height gas block and JP Heavy SCS with their strongest spring.
I shot the same 210 gn Gorilla out of my 16" using an Rubber City adjustable bolt only one turn out and a Springco orange spring and Kaw Valley 308 buffer. It ejected about 2 o'clock and six feet away. I was surprised.
Have you looked at the Magpul Hunter stock? That Mack Brothers action is nice. Pacific Tool and Gauge does a good job, too.
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Hello guys. I have just started down this 8.6BO road myself. I have both the gas version and the bolt version. Both builds are using 12" barrels. Figured out quick that 308 brass is more trouble than it's worth so, I'm resizing 6.5CM brass. The 308 brass would not drop in the chamber but the 6.5cm brass will. I loaded up 3rds today with 15, 16, & 17gr of 1680 under 270gr H ELD-XS. Each round ejected and picked up next rd and locked back on the 17gr load. Since everything looked good, I'm going to jump up to 20gr and run up to 25gr and see what happens. These were shot out of the gas gun. I'm going to use a MDT chassis for the bolt gun b/c it will be easier to get around the SBR paperwork. That's all i have for now. I'll get some speed info as soon as I establish a safe load range workup.
Just finished my Aero Precision 8.6, started to reload brass and converting from 308. Well come to find out the Lake City 308 I got all produces too thick of a neck wall to accommodate the 338 and not bind in the chamber. So the same issues when sizing 300 BO occur with the 8.6. I then tried some new 6.5 CM brass from Winchester and although it is quiet a pain to upsize to the 8.6 but it seems to work better. The real pain is I have to die it first with the mandrel, then remove the mandrel and size it again, to get the neck small enough not to stick after bullet seating. I really wish someone would come out with a case gauge soon. I haven’t even got to load development yet! Just ordered a Lee neck trimmer and a .338 mandrel. FYI it’s not included in kit only up to 30 cal is. The saga continues
Feel free to reach out if you have any questions. I just got done building mine.
I have been messing with this a lot in the last month or so, probably done about 3k 308 to 8.6 case conversions now. Basically what I have found is this. Annealing is great but I got tired of doing hundreds of rounds, I use RCSB wax when I resize full length .308 which helps a lot on the neck rippling. *I do not use an expander bulb like in hornady 8.6 decapper when resizing*. I have maybe 1-2 per 100 resized that I see some sort of neck rippling, usually its so minor and in the neck that when you turn its gonna get turned off, should it go down into the shoulder yes the brass is garbage so it hits the recycle bin. I usually resize on a single stage press, then trim down to 1.67. Unfortunately I have blown up about 4 different M7 power trimmers and have had to resort to the mini chop saw method. Once I have the correct size brass I run it though my progressive; expanding the neck to 8mm then again to the 338 with the Sinclair expanding dies. From there it goes onto neck turning, the most pain in the ass part of the process. The most important part here other than thinning the necks is setting a good shoulder angle. 308 is nice and thick so it gives you more room for error cutting into the shoulder slightly. I have found that 28-30 degree cutters have worked the best for me. One vendor accidently sent me a 40 degree cutter and this caused a very tight bolt close or unable to close, I thought it looked different while turning but didnt realize I had the wrong blade until I had loaded about 50 of them with very few easily chambering like hundreds before them. Using a K&M cutter I took the pilot out and using a 28 degree cutter, stuck the round in through pilot hole and just touching the shoulder with a few spins by hand manually taking off what seemed to be barely anything but changing the shoulder angle made all of them chamber easily after. Using a 30 degree I have had very little to no problems however I do load the brass then check chambering, if it is tight I might hit it with the above process by hand just to ensure easy chambering once out on range. Patiently awaiting an autodod to really crank out cases and lower the PIA factor. I have tried a number of 6.5 conversions but I have preferred the 308 due to the fact that you have a bit more of brass thickness and more room for error in turning, you dont have to do 3+ expanding steps, and definitely saw more rippling issues sizing the 6.5 brass.
Thanks for your offer...don't be surprised if I take you up on that. LOL
Same goes for me as well, don't hesitate to reach out.
Anyone here used the Lee Precision 8.6 BLK dies to turn 6.5CM into 8.6BLK?
I'm having issues getting the neck expander to stay low enough to widen the neck fully. The Lee dies allow the deprimer/expander pin to slide up "when it meets unusual resistance". Can this be fixed? Or do other die sets not have this problem?
I'm new to reloading, so it could very well be something I'm doing.
I'm having issues getting the neck expander to stay low enough to widen the neck fully. The Lee dies allow the deprimer/expander pin to slide up "when it meets unusual resistance". Can this be fixed? Or do other die sets not have this problem?
I'm new to reloading, so it could very well be something I'm doing.
You have to crank down on that top nut to hold the expander/decapper pin more securely, otherwise they slide around like you've found. I've had to do this with pretty much every Lee die set I use.
Just make sure to get it set to the correct height first so it doesn't bottom out on the case head; once you've cranked it down real tight it won't move like Lee advertises.
So I don't have any fired 8.6 brass to set the shoulder height, is there a trick to setting that other than using calipers after incrimentally moving the shoulder based off of the schematics?
If your dies are for the same cartridge as your chamber*, in this case 8.6 Blk, you can start off with the old fashioned method of setting the press to cam over a little on the die. It likely creates a little more headspace than is ideal, but if the chamber and die are reasonably close to spec it'll work fine to load some rounds, fire the same cases twice with full power loads, then use those fired cases to adjust the die for proper shoulder bump.
*Exceptions to same cartridge and chamber would usually be a wildcatting scenario, like using 6mm PPC dies to load one of the 6mm Grendel wildcats (or even the 6mm ARC). You can't set the die to cam over on the press there, because it'd push the shoulder back way too far. But in your case it should be fine; a lot of guys load that way their whole lives and never learn that there's a better way.
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Yondering, thank you for that advice! I'll start there and use cases fired in my gun to make the final adjustments.
Lots and lots to learn from this thread, and also to learn, in general, when being a bit on the bleeding edge of a new round, for sure!
I’ve been working on prepping my first cases (thanks @SAUMuvabitch !) and I can officially say “I can’t wait for commercially available brass” for this darn round.
The cases that I am using are thick-walled, requiring reaming/turning of the necks… after a few lessons learned (and cases finding their way to the trash can) I’ve found a pretty solid (though time-consuming) path forward.
Just wanted to thank everyone in this thread for their contributions so far. I’ve read it end-to-end at least 3x now, and am sure I’ll be asking some further loading questions once I finally clear brass prep for the first 50 rounds.
I’ve been working on prepping my first cases (thanks @SAUMuvabitch !) and I can officially say “I can’t wait for commercially available brass” for this darn round.
The cases that I am using are thick-walled, requiring reaming/turning of the necks… after a few lessons learned (and cases finding their way to the trash can) I’ve found a pretty solid (though time-consuming) path forward.
Just wanted to thank everyone in this thread for their contributions so far. I’ve read it end-to-end at least 3x now, and am sure I’ll be asking some further loading questions once I finally clear brass prep for the first 50 rounds.
I absolutely agree with you, Nbleak21! This thread has a LOT of info and learning to be had; thank everyone who has posted.
I also agree with you (with MUCH stronger words in my head) about the brass!
Do you have any thoughts on a k&m bullet tension pilot? or th cutting pilot? is a normal 338 pilot ok?
Looking at this compared to Hornady now.
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Hornady mandrel works perfectly for me while using the 338 tin/steel expander from sinclairs. The KM one I have is too tight (.010 I think). I think you need to get the top range from .3-.5 neck tension from km. I don't even use the pilot for my km cutter now. I only use the KM to barely touch the shoulder should the round not easily chamber once I have already loaded it. Which works probably 9/10 times from not chambering or chambering tightly to chambering normally.
You chrono these? ty
How is the trigger? In my Aero Ar-9, it doubles. I tried two larue flat bow's and 3 milspec triggers from psa that were there polished ones.
Its scary and I haven't touched the thing since they came out.
I was thinking a Timney PCC trigger since it has a stop and should not double then.
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Looks like I need to grab some CX/GMX projectiles. I went out today to test Reloader 10x and IMR 8208 XBR with my 270gr ELD-X's. Turns out the 270s are good up to about 1550FPS. Over that the frequency of jacket separation increases. I tested 8208 XBR from 28gn to 32.1gn and had no pressure signs. The top few loads were compressed.
I gave up on the Reloader 10x at 28.5gn because all the rounds were breaking apart.
I have some gorilla 285's but the length is significantly different so I need to work up a different load.
After jacking up my Palmetto State Armory upper I replaced it with an Aero Precision build.
I gave up on the Reloader 10x at 28.5gn because all the rounds were breaking apart.
I have some gorilla 285's but the length is significantly different so I need to work up a different load.
After jacking up my Palmetto State Armory upper I replaced it with an Aero Precision build.
So loading 282 hammerheads subs with 15.45 gr cfeblk in converted H8.6 brass annealed amp144 f210 primer 2.6 oak. .75 Moa out my 16” fix with a converted aac titan-qd to hub. Damn quiet don’t have fps as LabRadar took a crap at the range. Using 350 Rex makers @ 2.8 same brass primers seen pressure same gun at 16.2 gr h110. Got lab radar up and running going to range tomorrow
I am also curious what problems you're having with them? Is it basic function, or quality issues like runout, etc? If it's basic function, there's probably a solution to whatever issue you have.
@dnchrist & @Yondering,
It’s the darn decapping/expansion rod and retainment mechanism. No matter how hard I try to secure the darn thing (I’ve literally started stripping the nut at this point…) it ends up shifting.
First time using LEE dies and won’t plan to use them again. Never an issue with other MFG with the threaded retainment method.
For now I’m decapping/expanding using a 338 Lapua die then sizing, trimming, turning, and resizing followed by a last plunge with the 338L.
It’s the darn decapping/expansion rod and retainment mechanism. No matter how hard I try to secure the darn thing (I’ve literally started stripping the nut at this point…) it ends up shifting.
First time using LEE dies and won’t plan to use them again. Never an issue with other MFG with the threaded retainment method.
For now I’m decapping/expanding using a 338 Lapua die then sizing, trimming, turning, and resizing followed by a last plunge with the 338L.
I bought both the Lee and the Redding dies. The Redding's are very nice and even fix some of the 6,5 Brass (not hornady) that didn't quite fit the chamber, after using the Lee set......But they were $159 + shipping at Midway. they are in stock
https://www.midwayusa.com/s?searchTerm=redding+8.6+dies
OK i measured my 282 Hammerheads and they are going 1077 at ~ 300 ft alt 50 degrees (Seattle area). ~ 5 mil to 200, 1.5 mil at 50 both with 100 yard zero.
OK. That's a common issue when you don't have the nut tightened enough, or it's oily.
From your comment about "stripping the nut" - since you won't be stripping the threads, you must mean you're stripping the wrench flats, which means you're trying to use pliers, vice grips, etc. That's not the die's fault, you're using the wrong tool. You need two wrenches (not pliers, not crescent wrenches, just good solid fixed wrenches) - one on the die body and one on the nut. Tighten them together hard, and your slippage issues will stop. Most anyone who's used Lee dies has been through this at first, and that is the solution.
I recall being in high school autoshop, and our shop teacher hammering into us to never ever use pliers of any kind on a bolt instead of a wrench. He would throw kids out of the shop for the day if he caught you doing it; harsh but he was right - it's bad practice, it ruins the bolt/nut head and you can't get the force you need on it.
8.6 Blackout 1:3 twist - cast for subs are possible!!!
This is an exciting time, being at the beginning of something that challenges traditional wisdom. A very few folks have begun to work with cast in the 1:3 twist barrel. There is a very detailed work up on one of the 8.6 Facebook groups that shows the cast boolits holding together until 1115fps with a 24bhn alloy but the poster declined to share the alloy ingredients/percentages. The mold used was a 338 dia 270 grain NOE spire point with no lube grooves. I would like to also do some cast experiments but wanted to get a heavier, flat point mold to work with. NOE has already manufactured, but is currently out of stock, the HTC339-315-FN-BZ1 315gr flat point. There is currently a post on the NOE forums directed at getting NOE to make more of these. Apparently the mold was originally designed for the 338 Specter but will also work in all 338 cal applications.
If you are interested in a 338 mold, and this would work for you in your pursuits, could you please sign up on the NOE forums page?
HTC339-315-FN-BZ1
I've followed 8.6BO off and on since it was announced. I like my 300BO AR and my 338S bolt gun is fun, so having an AR10 upper that could do the super/subs combo like the 300BO seemed like a good idea.
Why has the 1:3 twist been settled on? Seems like it's not needed for subs, as 338S can move subs just fine with 1:6-7 twist barrels, and the supers obviously don't require that fast of a twist rate to remain stable.
What "problem" is it solving while at the same time seeming to create real world issues?
Why has the 1:3 twist been settled on? Seems like it's not needed for subs, as 338S can move subs just fine with 1:6-7 twist barrels, and the supers obviously don't require that fast of a twist rate to remain stable.
What "problem" is it solving while at the same time seeming to create real world issues?
Remember those Nerf Footballs of years gone by? Get the perfect spin and they whistled all the way to to their destination.
Q is trying to make their bullet sing.
Jokes aside, it’s rotational energy. If you can add another 100 ftlb of energy, why not?
Also, they prob wanted to push the envelope. Again, why not?
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