Major 2A Legal Win Today

Yeah - this is starting to get spicy for the ATF.

The Supreme Court said its a right like all the other rights. Wait till some lawyer figures out that denying someone a constitutional right due to the time necessary to run a background check is also not kosher....and in fact there are no rights at current that require a background check to be exercised. Gonna be fun.

Let’s go let’s win

The Texas suppressor case just got a court date also. They tried for another dismissal but it didn't happen. November 2023 I think. Probably never see it.

alamo5000 said:

Or the notion of having to pay a 'special tax' specific to firearms as well.

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Personally, I am fine with Pittman-Robertson because it has done a huge amount of good for hunting and the outdoors. But did set a bad precedent… as did NFA.

But P-R was designed to benefit us and I’d check a box and pay it voluntarily. It’s not free cheese!

Sirhr

PS but now that I think about it… I wonder how weaponized those funds now are against the outdoor sports. Wetlands, no lead, other bans that are being funded by us with a excise tax that is supposed to be “for” hunting and outdoorsmen. Anyone ever looked into that? I wonder…

Pittman-Robertson is a tax and as such is bullshit and theft. Just like property tax, income tax, death tax, inheritance tax, vehicle registration tax, etc. Feeling taxed enough yet?

I’m leery of 2A wins, because the dems don’t just sit back and take their losses like the republicans. I’m betting they’re already regrouping and will come after us with something worse.

JMGlasgow said:

Pittman-Robertson is a tax and as such is bullshit and theft. Just like property tax, income tax, death tax, inheritance tax, vehicle registration tax, etc. Feeling taxed enough yet?

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Definitely feeling over-taxed.

But that said, I am not anti-tax. Because there are things that the private sector isn't going to do and there are things that governments need to be funded to do. State, local and, yes, even federal.

What I AM against is regressive taxation... the punishment of success using taxation. And Redistribution of Wealth using Taxation.

There is nothing wrong with or Unconsititutional about taxation. But that's not what we have any more. We have weaponization of theft by Fiat... where the takers can vote to siphon funds from the makers at an egregious level... and designed to simply steal from the hard-working and successful.

Student loan forgiveness anyone? Free Cheese? Checks for staying home? Fuck that...

Sirhr

The excise tax is set by law at 11% of the wholesale price for long guns and ammunition and 10% for handguns. It is paid by manufacturers, producers, and importers and applies to all commercial sales and imports, whether their purpose is hunting, sport shooting, or personal defense.

Is this not takers siphoning funds from the makers?

retrieverman said:

I’m leery of 2A wins, because the dems don’t just sit back and take their losses like the republicans. I’m betting they’re already regrouping and will come after us with something worse.

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That would be the "assault weapon registration and licensing" they're pushing for right now.

JMGlasgow said:

The excise tax is set by law at 11% of the wholesale price for long guns and ammunition and 10% for handguns. It is paid by manufacturers, producers, and importers and applies to all commercial sales and imports, whether their purpose is hunting, sport shooting, or personal defense.

Is this not takers siphoning funds from the makers?

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Indeed it is. But when Pittman Robertson was passed the state of wildlife in the country due to market hunting pollution habitat destruction and a bunch of other things created by laissez-faire capitalism and game laws had all but destroyed the outdoors in America. The Pitman Robertson act was actually endorsed by hunters and by the firearms industry as a way to guarantee money would go into conservation and wildlife. That would ensure that we have the kind of quality hunting fishing and outdoor spaces that we have today.

Like I said I have no problem paying it though these days I am somewhat concerned that the money is not being used simply for improving our outdoors but is being Weaponized against us by the green movement. Which would have us stop hunting and turn Pittman Robertson into some kind of utopian bullshit.

Cheers

JMGlasgow said:

The excise tax is set by law at 11% of the wholesale price for long guns and ammunition and 10% for handguns. It is paid by manufacturers, producers, and importers and applies to all commercial sales and imports, whether their purpose is hunting, sport shooting, or personal defense.

Is this not takers siphoning funds from the makers?

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And the makers pass that dollar amount on to us.

That’s how business taxes work.

sirhrmechanic said:

Definitely feeling over-taxed.

But that said, I am not anti-tax. Because there are things that the private sector isn't going to do and there are things that governments need to be funded to do. State, local and, yes, even federal.

What I AM against is regressive taxation... the punishment of success using taxation. And Redistribution of Wealth using Taxation.

There is nothing wrong with or Unconsititutional about taxation. But that's not what we have any more. We have weaponization of theft by Fiat... where the takers can vote to siphon funds from the makers at an egregious level... and designed to simply steal from the hard-working and successful.

Student loan forgiveness anyone? Free Cheese? Checks for staying home? Fuck that...

Sirhr

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Akshully, punishing success is a "progressive tax." Regressive taxes are taxes that are most disadvantageous to low wage earners. Sales tax is THE prime example of a regressive tax. "But, wait" you say, "Sales tax is the same percentage for everyone." No, it is not. It is the same percentage of the sale price, but it is a higher percentage of the take home pay of a low wage worker than a high wage worker. $8.25 per $100 dollars spent is a higher cut when you make $1000 per month than when you make $10,000 per month. "Progressive taxes" ascribe to the philosophy of "from those who can, to those who need."

alamo5000 said:

Long story short this is the start of the end for things like Red Flag Laws.

Summary: Some guy tried to buy a .22LR pistol and on the 4473 it asked if he was under indictment blah blah blah. He checked no and eventually got his pistol. As far as I know he was never convicted of ANY of the original stuff the government said he did. BUT they tried to put him on trial for violation of Federal gun laws by attempting to purchase (and actually purchasing) a .22LR pistol while he was technically under indictment.

Judge today ruled that ENTIRE scheme as unconstitutional because you cannot be denied Constitutional Rights based on an indictment only.

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There are lots of talking heads and “gun guys” on YouTube talking about legal shit, Armed Attorneys, Four Boxes Diner and a few others are actually attorneys and give some very good information if I can stop being distracted by the blondes huge cans long enough to focus.

alamo5000 said:

I was specifically referring to the NFA. A tax that was specifically created to prevent people from legally having things, that is UNLESS they were wealthy. It has all types of violations on it. It definitely created a class system among firearms owners.

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Well it was intended to essentially band automatic weapons because $200 for a tax stamp when a Thompson cost about $80 was designed to stop people from buying anything.

But the courts said you couldn’t ban something so they simply taxed it out of existence.

Technically marijuana is not banned.. You can get a federal tax stamp for it. But they won’t issue any tax stamps. I believe there are a dozen or so people who have tax stamps from years and years ago. But that’s it.


So yes the NFA was the Roosevelt administration’s attempt to tax firearms ownership out of existence. And honestly I think they would’ve gone further if they could’ve gotten away with it.

But that’s as you say different from Pittman Robertson.

alamo5000 said:

I was specifically referring to the NFA. A tax that was specifically created to prevent people from legally having things, that is UNLESS they were wealthy. It has all types of violations on it. It definitely created a class system among firearms owners.

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Something that many people don't know is the amount for the "stamp" is the same now as it was at the get go. You are so correct in the wealthy part. $200 was a HUGE amount of money in the 1930's......hell it was a huge amount till we get to the 70's and early 80's.

So why had the price for the "stamp" not gone up with the times? Simple the way the 1934 deal is written makes changing this a HUGE pain, and will open that can of worms they know they don't want opened.

It will take someone with real deep pockets, and a likely death wish that is going to fight this head on. (Mr. Special agent if you are reading this like we all know you are, this is not me)

The only Supreme Court challenge to the NFA was tried in absentia. The Miller was dead and lost his case. By the standards applied to the ruling NFA should have been overturned but the Court and DOJ were in support of NFA.

"Only weapons that have a reasonable relationship to the effectiveness of a well-regulated militia under the Second Amendment are free from government regulation."

By that standards suppressed. 22LR should be free from regulation, as would Miller's sawed of shot gun.

gunsnjeeps said:

The only Supreme Court challenge to the NFA was tried in absentia. The Miller was dead and lost his case. By the standards applied to the ruling NFA should have been overturned but the Court and DOJ were in support of NFA.

"Only weapons that have a reasonable relationship to the effectiveness of a well-regulated militia under the Second Amendment are free from government regulation."

By that standards suppressed. 22LR should be free from regulation, as would Miller's sawed of shot gun.

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Yeah - I like that standard actually. I want an M136 Gatling gun so I can save enough money to shoot it every decade. Regulation? Fuck that, the militia has needs.