Is my barrel shot?

Turbo2 said:

You're are ruining that gun. Match grade rifles need frequent cleaning especially since it's the dirty round of .22lr. If you let your guns go that long you either don't like your guns or just lazy. Br shooters clean after every card and there's a very good reason for that.

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Seriously shut the fuck up.

Its clear the OP does not know how to season a barrel. If he did, it wouldn't look this clean. He needs to put about 1K down the tube before its seasoned. The only thing you need to clean out is the carbon ring with Boretech C4. Anything that attacks lead or lubricant is going to fuck up the seasoning up.

You do not need to clean the bore. Just clean the chamber every other match or so to keep carbon ring down, Clean the bolt face every 100 rounds or so to ensure feeding and that's it.

Since its clear there are enough people posting who don't even know how to break in/season a .22 barrel: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/a-guide-to-22lr-barrel-care-for-the-precision-rimfire-shooter/

sachsmart said:

Well, we will file this under the many unsolved mysteries of the universe.

After taking the rifle apart (did not remove the barrel) and putting everything back to spec torque (nothing seemed loose per say) I went back to the range today.

I first shot CCI, the groups were bigger but much smaller than my previous outing. There were fewer fliers and the fliers were not too outrageous like before. I shot about 150 rounds and the group progressively got smaller.

Switched to SK, shot about 30 rounds so the wax from the SK gets evenly distributed and then zeroed. The accuracy is back to what it was before & the fliers are gone.

I have cleaned the gun before using the same components and method; it did not affect the accuracy like this. Possibly a combination of a few things but I am glad its in good shape again so we can shoot another rimfire match for the season.

Thanks for all the helpful advice

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It’s settled then, it was just too clean and needed a couple hundred rounds through it to bring back the accuracy.

sachsmart said:

Thanks for all the helpful replies.

I have thoroughly tightened everything to spec from barrel screws, action screws to scope mount.

For those asking- I clean this 22 after 300-400 rounds, unless I change ammo. Bore tech rimfire blend & dry patches. There is no carbon ring.

Last season we shot about 5 rimfire PRS/MARS matches. The rifle shoots single hole & shot very well. Did not get to shoot too much rimfire this year as I was busy with my PRS matches.

Scope is a fairly new Vortex razor Gen 2. Looks solid and tracked very well.

So its not the Ammo, probably not the scope (but you never know), not the cleaning.

I will find out tomorrow at the range if something was loose.

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First thing, take the rimfire blend and throw in the trash. The ONLY thing you should use is C4 to clean carbon ring out of chamber.

A 22 does not get hot enough or have enough pressure to debur and smooth out a new machined barrel. So the way they are broken is is all that carbon and lead and lubricant gets deposited in the barrel inclusions and builds up a "seasoning". It will take 750-100 rounds before everything tightens up, so every time you clean it, you are resetting the clock. Stop Cleaning the bore.

Make sure you keep the bolt clean and wipe out the chamber with a rag every 50-100 rounds when at a match. This will ensure feeding.

Also, only shoot good match ammo like SK, Lapua, RWS, Wolf, Ely. All that copper coated and other shit will ruin the seasoning in your barrel if you care about accuracy.

Untill you season the barrel, I would not expect much.

sachsmart said:

Well, we will file this under the many unsolved mysteries of the universe.

After taking the rifle apart (did not remove the barrel) and putting everything back to spec torque (nothing seemed loose per say) I went back to the range today.

I first shot CCI, the groups were bigger but much smaller than my previous outing. There were fewer fliers and the fliers were not too outrageous like before. I shot about 150 rounds and the group progressively got smaller.

Switched to SK, shot about 30 rounds so the wax from the SK gets evenly distributed and then zeroed. The accuracy is back to what it was before & the fliers are gone.

I have cleaned the gun before using the same components and method; it did not affect the accuracy like this. Possibly a combination of a few things but I am glad its in good shape again so we can shoot another rimfire match for the season.

Thanks for all the helpful advice

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The accuracy on a stripped/new/cleaned barrel goes like this.

Decently Accurate to 200 or so rounds.
From 200-100 it starts to open up, shoot like piss, wont group well.
Once you hit 1K, it should all tighen up and this is when you send your gun to Lapua Test Center for Lot testing.

If you keep doing the same type of cleaning cycle you will have the same accuracy cycles. Got to break the cycle man.

grauhanen said:

What are some of those "very good reasons" to never clean?

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Get yourself educated

Turbo2 said:

I will bet money on how well it shoots or how well it doesn't shoot. It won't be competitive that's for sure. What you consider accurate may not be the same for me. You guys think cause it shoots 1/4" groups that's accurate. Our guns have to shoot a 1/8" group consistently to just be competitive .you won't achieve that level of accuracy with a dirty gun. You can sit here and come up with a million excuses as to why you don't clean that's fine, you won't win at a top level though and that's what we all strive for top level performance. Guys will argue no matter what even if you're wrong lmao

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No im not wrong, im agreeing with you. Maybe we are both wrong ?

The "average" range or comp shooter will love a 0.25" 5 shot group. Good es/sd / whatever. PRS (one of the comps i shoot) is 1.5/2moa gongs. Even a 0.5moa gun is plenty competitive. This is why we (or at least I) have a shitty cleaning routine. I dont "need" to clean to get it better for that sport.

You, or BR or fclass competitors need reliable consistency, and to achieve that, for their chosen sport and competition, they "need" to clean it religiously. Thats the sport. Not my sport, but one of the sports.

DeathBeforeDismount said:

Get yourself educated

A Guide to .22LR Barrel Care for the Precision Rimfire Shooter - The Truth About Guns

&#9664Previous Post Next Post▶ By Gregory J. Roman As anyone involved in the shooting sports knows, precision rimfire is growing rapidly. The internet is full of tons of advice, good and bad, on how to perform better as a shooter. If there is one thing that my time at Vudoo has taught me, it’s...

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

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Answering the question for someone else may run the risk of disappointing him.

The source you offer as education advocates a minimalistic cleaning regimen. To support it's usefulness, he makes a rather curious assertion.

He claims that his minimal cleaning method "produces extremely low ES and SD numbers over the chronograph which translates to extremely consistent and predictable ballistics at long range." (Those are author Gregory J. Roman's words from the article.)

How many shooters would agree that it's the cleaning regimen and not the ammo itself that's responsible for "extremely low ES and SD numbers over the chronograph"? Is this education you can believe in?

False claims don't make for good information.

grauhanen said:

Answering the question for someone else may run the risk of disappointing him.

The source you offer as education advocates a minimalistic cleaning regimen. To support it's usefulness, he makes a rather curious assertion.

He claims that his minimal cleaning method "produces extremely low ES and SD numbers over the chronograph which translates to extremely consistent and predictable ballistics at long range." (Those are author Gregory J. Roman's words from the article.)

How many shooters would agree that it's the cleaning regimen and not the ammo itself that's responsible for "extremely low ES and SD numbers over the chronograph"? Is this education you can believe in?

False claims don't make for good information.

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for me

clean barrel. wandering zero and shit chrono data

settled in barrel. repeatable zero and much more consistent chrono data

b6graham said:

for me

clean barrel. wandering zero and shit chrono data

settled in barrel. repeatable zero and much more consistent chrono data

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A clean, unfouled barrel is always inconsistent. Fouling it is necessary.

The source linked above alleges that a great deal of fouling is required for consistent performance. According to Roman, "Seasoning will start to build up in the breech end of the barrel and eventually build up all the way to the muzzle. This buildup is desired and takes at least 1,000 rounds to reach the muzzle."

When most BR and position shooters foul their clean barrels with no more than a few dozen rounds at most, who would have thought that no fewer than 1,000 rounds are actually needed for adequate fouling?

Of course, shooters are always free clean as little as they feel is necessary.

grauhanen said:

Answering the question for someone else may run the risk of disappointing him.

The source you offer as education advocates a minimalistic cleaning regimen. To support it's usefulness, he makes a rather curious assertion.

He claims that his minimal cleaning method "produces extremely low ES and SD numbers over the chronograph which translates to extremely consistent and predictable ballistics at long range." (Those are author Gregory J. Roman's words from the article.)

How many shooters would agree that it's the cleaning regimen and not the ammo itself that's responsible for "extremely low ES and SD numbers over the chronograph"? Is this education you can believe in?

False claims don't make for good information.

Click to expand...

Its not an either or. Its both. You can have amazing lot ammo with low ES and SD but it will shoot like shit without a well seasoned barrel. At the same time a well seasoned barrel wont make shit ammo good. I didn't realize this needed to be explained but here we are.

You can shoot out a 22Lr with under a metric ton of ammo?

Last I read, a barrel for a 22lr can be shot useless at about 200,000 rounds.
A case, 5000 cartridges, shipping weight is 40 lbs, so 40 cases is 1600 lbs.
That's 0.8 tons, right?

Let me guess. You're "that guy" at parties ?

justin amateur said:

Last I read, a barrel for a 22lr can be shot useless at about 200,000 rounds.
A case, 5000 cartridges, shipping weight is 40 lbs, so 40 cases is 1600 lbs.
That's 0.8 tons, right?

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I believe your correct, it does take a ton of ammo to shoot the rifleing out on a 22, but the chamber throat can be shot out a lot sooner. I have owned several 50 yr old 40x that the rifleing looked new but the chamber throats would be shot out. Cut and rechamber. The crown on the other hand can be damaged with one stroke of a cleaning rod no matter how many rounds down the tube! If you want to see accuracy go south just screw up the crown.

For what it’s worth my Kidd 10/22 did the same thing, sent it in they said I had a squib round that caused a ring in the rifling. They sent me a new barrel and it went back to a one hole gun.

Barrel worms ?

Rengage said:

Barrel worms ?

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My two cents: I have been shooting 22 rimfire rifles for many, many years and the only time I ever had a rifle lose it's accuracy like the OP's did it turned out to be a scope that went south sometime during a return home and going back to the range. That doesn't necessarily mean that is what happened in this case but the scope is the first thing I would check in each and every case like this one.

I wonder if the OP ever did find out he was cleaning too much

I wonder if he found anything , I would like to know

Would all the variability, arguing and controversy surrounding cleaning ( or not ) apply to 17HMR as well ? Appears that opinions and related practices when it comes to cleaning rimfire rifles is about as inconsistent as it can possibly get. The only consistent thing is the inconsistency!

Ok I am going to open a can of worms here I am sure. I have done both methods of cleaning and my consensus is that a clean barrel shoots better. At least a match grade barrel while shooting the PRS discipline.
I have a Krieger 25.5" 16T barrel done by MCR on a Vudoo that was lot tested at Eley in Winters, TX. The gun is consistently .25 at 50 and sub MOA to 300 shooting 5 shot groups in North Texas weather conditions.
For the first half of the case of Tenex I only cleaned the chamber with C4 and would use 2-3 dry patches to push any remaining solvent out of the barrel. I always inspected the chamber with a scope to make sure that no Carbon Ring was building. I will say that after about 3 bricks I noticed that at distance the rifle wasnt as consistent as it was in the beginning. I would have noticeably bigger groups at 275-350yds. At around 4 bricks-2000k rounds I decided to completely clean the barrel while at the range testing. Immediately after cleaning the rifle shooting at 50 yards after 3-4 rnds it was back to zero and bughole groups. The groups at distance came back to right at moa consistently. I now clean the barrel after every trip to the range. It doesnt matter if I shoot 20rnds or 200 I clean the same every time. The gun is without a doubt more consistent. If I am going to shoot a match I will simply shoot 10-20 rnds at the sight in target to foul the barrel. It rarely needs more than 3-5 rnds fired before it comes back to zero and grouping. I have also in practice shot the first rounds at a clean 300 yard steel plate. Same results. Clean is the way in my opinion.........

Now I will say this. Having owned 2 Vudoos with factory barrels and shot thousands of rounds that the factory barrels do not come back as quickly after cleaning them. Sometimes taking 20-30 plus rnds to get them back to grouping..... Is this because the finish in the bore or chamber isnt as good?? Yall can argue and laugh at this post if you want but I took the time to give you my experience and I know that probably the majority of top PRS shooters in my area all go by this same cleaning principle. I only tried the other way after reading comments on here. The OTHER way is easier... But not better.

Shayne Ward said:

Ok I am going to open a can of worms here I am sure. I have done both methods of cleaning and my consensus is that a clean barrel shoots better. At least a match grade barrel while shooting the PRS discipline.
I have a Krieger 25.5" 16T barrel done by MCR on a Vudoo that was lot tested at Eley in Winters, TX. The gun is consistently .25 at 50 and sub MOA to 300 shooting 5 shot groups in North Texas weather conditions.
For the first half of the case of Tenex I only cleaned the chamber with C4 and would use 2-3 dry patches to push any remaining solvent out of the barrel. I always inspected the chamber with a scope to make sure that no Carbon Ring was building. I will say that after about 3 bricks I noticed that at distance the rifle wasnt as consistent as it was in the beginning. I would have noticeably bigger groups at 275-350yds. At around 4 bricks-2000k rounds I decided to completely clean the barrel while at the range testing. Immediately after cleaning the rifle shooting at 50 yards after 3-4 rnds it was back to zero and bughole groups. The groups at distance came back to right at moa consistently. I now clean the barrel after every trip to the range. It doesnt matter if I shoot 20rnds or 200 I clean the same every time. The gun is without a doubt more consistent. If I am going to shoot a match I will simply shoot 10-20 rnds at the sight in target to foul the barrel. It rarely needs more than 3-5 rnds fired before it comes back to zero and grouping. I have also in practice shot the first rounds at a clean 300 yard steel plate. Same results. Clean is the way in my opinion.........

Now I will say this. Having owned 2 Vudoos with factory barrels and shot thousands of rounds that the factory barrels do not come back as quickly after cleaning them. Sometimes taking 20-30 plus rnds to get them back to grouping..... Is this because the finish in the bore or chamber isnt as good?? Yall can argue and laugh at this post if you want but I took the time to give you my experience and I know that probably the majority of top PRS shooters in my area all go by this same cleaning principle. I only tried the other way after reading comments on here. The OTHER way is easier... But not better.

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Agree with this reply entirely! A quality remfire barrel will shoot clean. It doesn't need to be seasoned as some people call it, actually filling in machining imperfections. A button rifled lapped barrel will come back in after 2 or 3 fouling shots. Cut rifled non lapped barrels generally take more fouling shots. I have seen some take as many as 25 to settle down. Ask yourself why? As to this not cleaning remfire barrels BS. It's simply that.

Shayne Ward said:

Ok I am going to open a can of worms here I am sure. I have done both methods of cleaning and my consensus is that a clean barrel shoots better. At least a match grade barrel while shooting the PRS discipline.
I have a Krieger 25.5" 16T barrel done by MCR on a Vudoo that was lot tested at Eley in Winters, TX. The gun is consistently .25 at 50 and sub MOA to 300 shooting 5 shot groups in North Texas weather conditions.
For the first half of the case of Tenex I only cleaned the chamber with C4 and would use 2-3 dry patches to push any remaining solvent out of the barrel. I always inspected the chamber with a scope to make sure that no Carbon Ring was building. I will say that after about 3 bricks I noticed that at distance the rifle wasnt as consistent as it was in the beginning. I would have noticeably bigger groups at 275-350yds. At around 4 bricks-2000k rounds I decided to completely clean the barrel while at the range testing. Immediately after cleaning the rifle shooting at 50 yards after 3-4 rnds it was back to zero and bughole groups. The groups at distance came back to right at moa consistently. I now clean the barrel after every trip to the range. It doesnt matter if I shoot 20rnds or 200 I clean the same every time. The gun is without a doubt more consistent. If I am going to shoot a match I will simply shoot 10-20 rnds at the sight in target to foul the barrel. It rarely needs more than 3-5 rnds fired before it comes back to zero and grouping. I have also in practice shot the first rounds at a clean 300 yard steel plate. Same results. Clean is the way in my opinion.........

Now I will say this. Having owned 2 Vudoos with factory barrels and shot thousands of rounds that the factory barrels do not come back as quickly after cleaning them. Sometimes taking 20-30 plus rnds to get them back to grouping..... Is this because the finish in the bore or chamber isnt as good?? Yall can argue and laugh at this post if you want but I took the time to give you my experience and I know that probably the majority of top PRS shooters in my area all go by this same cleaning principle. I only tried the other way after reading comments on here. The OTHER way is easier... But not better.

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There are a ton of great shooters here in TX, and Shayne is consistently one of the top. I'd go with what he says.........He's proven it.

J_D said:

There are a ton of great shooters here in TX, and Shayne is consistently one of the top. I'd go with what he says.........He's proven it.

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I appreciate that! I’m not trying to argue here in anyway. No doubt I have learned more from this group than I have given back. I tested this theory myself and I am sharing my results. I can myself tell when the barrel is getting dirty after 2-300 rnds on a day that we are just practicing/ messing around. It seems there are some here that aren’t ever open to any other way than what they have been told and that’s where we get stuck.

Shane ,
We had noticed the same with a vudoo factory bartlein barrel , if you clean it all the way it dosent shoot very well or is noticeably different until you get several rounds down the tube , maybe 30 or more , so every few hundred rounds we tried just scrubbing the chamber /lead and push a couple of patches through it , accuracy stays the same (great ) consistency great
Maybe some barrels like squeaky clean some like a little season and some like it grungy ?????

Shayne Ward said:

I shoot eley tenex ammo

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What chamber do you have ? You said custom barrel, im going to guess you have an eley specific chamber ?

*Shocked pikachu*.

iceng said:

What chamber do you have ? You said custom barrel, im going to guess you have an eley specific chamber ?

*Shocked pikachu*.

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I do not know what chamber it is. I believe that a trade secret so I have never asked. I do know that it isn’t a Eley specific chamber though. Most of his shooters run Lapua. I have to ask why that matters to you though?

Certain ammo works better in specific custom made chambers. Its hard for a factory gun with factory chamber to shoot anything, or everything super well. Some guns just dont like certain ammo. Having a custom barrel with (potentially) super secret chamber specs, and having it tested in TX eley range for batch ammo, well yes, im not surprised at all you have a laser beam rifle. The cleaning is also normal, as you are on the bleeding edge of accuracy, so that comes with the territory.

Im jealous of the setup and accuracy you have, and my original point being "you have a full custom rifle setup, with factory tested ammo lots, its had to compare that to an average joe with a CZ455/457 and CCIs.".

Perhaps the take away here is that some barrels shoot well clean, and some dirty, and you have to figure out which one you have. Just like some rifles like eley and others lapua.
and as mentioned, everyone has a different threshold for acceptable performance, frequently dictated by what type of shooting they do.
both camps make valid points, and experiments with your particular rifle will answer the question of how you feed and maintain that rifle moving forward

iceng said:

The barrel is barely broken in.

STOP CLEANING IT. Go put 200 rounds through it, without checking your group size or fliers every 0.5 shots and enjoy it.

It will come back.

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Complete bullshit from the pro ignorance crowd. Don’t clean, don’t use bore scope, don’t test, don’t record results. Thinking hurts some people apparently.

How do you break in a rimfire barrel?

Tell me you have no idea what your talking about without telling me you have no idea what you are talking about.

DeathBeforeDismount said:

How do you break in a rimfire barrel?

Tell me you have no idea what your talking about without telling me you have no idea what you are talking about.

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So my custom barrels… (I have two now) I simply shoot them. As stated above they are one hole groups at about 3-5 shots in. No break in needed.

The two factory Vudoo barrels I have played with shot from day one also. They are definitely more ammo picky though.

Going back to the cleaning aspect of the factory barrels I stated that it would take longer for them to return to zero and start shooting. I still believe they shoot better clean than not.

I hope I sound like I know what I am talking about

The point is, you can't really break in a rimfire barrel. There is not enough heat and pressure. That is why we season.

Yes the barrels shoot well clean but then fall off. If you only ever shoot 100-200 rounds or less between cleanings you will most likely be fine. But once you go above that ( it's super easy with rimfire) You have accuracy degradation.

So either clean all the time or don't clean. Most people will do more damage overcleaning a gun so it's probally a better choice for most to just season, clean the carbon rung and keep shooting.

RTH1800 said:

Im butt-hurt

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Now show me on the dolly which one of your pro-nouns i offended.

A simple "i disagree, because X" would make you sound less retarded.

I based my original point from experience (shooting and my clients), a barrel manufacturer, and a top level rimfire BR shooter. Also results on paper.

Im happy to be wrong, however so far, this is the best method ive found, but happy to try a new one when i put a new rimfire barrel on customers guns. Ill be doing 2 more this week. Pair of 12twist, and potentially a 7t just after xmas.

DeathBeforeDismount said:

The point is, you can't really break in a rimfire barrel. There is not enough heat and pressure. That is why we season.

Yes the barrels shoot well clean but then fall off. If you only ever shoot 100-200 rounds or less between cleanings you will most likely be fine. But once you go above that ( it's super easy with rimfire) You have accuracy degradation.

So either clean all the time or don't clean. Most people will do more damage overcleaning a gun so it's probally a better choice for most to just season, clean the carbon rung and keep shooting.

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Pretty sure you just completely contradicted everything you said previously. Tell me you just spout shit off without telling me you just spout shit off. It’s really simple to clean your rifle every time you shoot it. Pain in the ass maybe but simple… Telling someone they are going to damage a rifle while cleaning it is nonsense. Especially if any kind of common sense is used. You seem you just want to argue and sound important instead of actually having a discussion and helping anyone in this thread. If your comment was directed at me earlier as to whether or not I know what I am talking about my PRS number is 8655. I shot a few rimfire matches this year.

I had a very accurate match rifle go south in the middle of a state championship a few years ago. It went from shooting perfect scores to each shot being inches away from the next and going higher with each round. I looked closely and found that the scope rings had vibrated loose from riding around in the truck and they slid forward until they fell off the receiver. I repositioned them and retightened them and it shot two perfect cards after that. A fouled bbl will lose accuracy but not to 5" groups at 50y. Look at scope and rings first.

Shayne Ward said:

Pretty sure you just completely contradicted everything you said previously. Tell me you just spout shit off without telling me you just spout shit off. It’s really simple to clean your rifle every time you shoot it. Pain in the ass maybe but simple… Telling someone they are going to damage a rifle while cleaning it is nonsense. Especially if any kind of common sense is used. You seem you just want to argue and sound important instead of actually having a discussion and helping anyone in this thread. If your comment was directed at me earlier as to whether or not I know what I am talking about my PRS number is 8655. I shot a few rimfire matches this year.

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It wasn't directed to you but if you read the article I referenced it said the same thing.

Rifles absolutely get damaged with improper cleaning. Most people don't even know how to use a bore guide and cleaning tools correctly and end up dicking up the crown and/or chamber.

I'm not cleaning every match or half way through a practice day. Every 500 rounds just soak the chamber with c4 to clear out carbon ring and keep shooting. I don't have time or patience for unneeded and unnecessary maintance.

Last weekend i dropped a total of 1 shot the entire match for prs22. Timed out due to mag jams on a few others which is why I got 3rd instead of 1st. First 90 second match as well(west coast are all 2 min). Stacking rounds out to 300yard on a gun that hasnt had the bore cleaned in almost 2k rounds.

And FYI, my prs number is 29xx, so if this is becoming a dick measuring contest, let me know.

Measure away.. I didn’t xx my last numbers out. It just seems you have some pent up hostility here and I thought I was bringing it out. I’m not here to argue, just to help. As stated above common sense used when cleaning a rifle is completely safe practice. I am willing to wager that more people have issues from lack of cleaning than the other way around. Carbon rings once allowed to form are nearly impossible to get clean without abrasives. You have yourself a super wonderful weekend

My experience with several barrels has shown that they usually follow the same cycle of accuracy during their first few thousand rounds fired:

1. They typically shoot well when they are brand new, but still leave room for improvement.
2. Accuracy will fall off after 400-500 rounds and not improve until at least 1,000 rounds fired.
3. The barrel will then start to become super accurate and predictable after 1,000 rounds or more have been sent through it.

When the barrel sees step two, the seasoning is only partially laid down in the barrel. The bullet will begin its travel over a smooth, lubricated, seasoned surface and then suddenly hit the unseasoned portion on its way to the muzzle.

The shooter will experience some wild velocity spikes and random flyers on the target while the barrel is only partially seasoned. The rifle will also usually produce a little slower average velocity along with larger SD and ES when partially seasoned.

I think the moral of this thread is that it’s a waste of time to argue with a keyboard warrior who is never wrong and wrote the book on rimfire barrels….

Csafisher said:

I think the moral of this thread is that it’s a waste of time to argue with a keyboard warrior who is never wrong and wrote the book on rimfire barrels….

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Exactly… waste of time arguing with anyone on the internet these days

Does the surface of the rifling change during the first thousand shots with 22lr?
Two thousand, four thousand shots, does it ever stop?
Is it being smoothed out by the deposition of burn residue and lead particulates?
Is there polishing taking place, wearing away burrs and machining patterns or tool marks?
Is it the bullet lubricant or the combustion byproducts changing the contact between bullet and bore?
Is there abrasion occurring to polish the bore?
If so, what are the abrasive components?
Can it be proven? How would you document the changes?
Someone should probably take the time and find out, right?

Fake quoting me is very poor form. Not surprised at all.
Stupidity is fun to watch. Carry on.

littlesister said:

Agree with this reply entirely! A quality remfire barrel will shoot clean. It doesn't need to be seasoned as some people call it, actually filling in machining imperfections. A button rifled lapped barrel will come back in after 2 or 3 fouling shots. Cut rifled non lapped barrels generally take more fouling shots. I have seen some take as many as 25 to settle down. Ask yourself why? As to this not cleaning remfire barrels BS. It's simply that.

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Yea you know more than the people who work at vudoo and build these guns and compete do along with a bunch of shooters who see the same thing. The guy from the article not only shoots for team vudoo, but works there.

L O fucking L

Shayne Ward said:

So my custom barrels… (I have two now) I simply shoot them. As stated above they are one hole groups at about 3-5 shots in. No break in needed.

The two factory Vudoo barrels I have played with shot from day one also. They are definitely more ammo picky though.

Going back to the cleaning aspect of the factory barrels I stated that it would take longer for them to return to zero and start shooting. I still believe they shoot better clean than not.

I hope I sound like I know what I am talking about

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Custom barrels ....really?

Factory vudoo means it's either a bartlien or ACE which is also a cut rifle barrel. Calling them factory barrels is disingenuous at best when they are using the best barrels money can buy.

I will put my " factory" bartlien vudoo that shoots 1 ragged hole with sk match up against any "custom" barrel.

Where are all these fucking idiots in the centerfire threads telling people that barrels don't need to break in? So rimfire barrels somehow magically break in with a few rounds of low pressure low heat? A 6.5cm or 6mm takes 150-200 rounds to break in with a premium barrel at a MUCH higher preassure and heat point...but your rimfire gun breaks in 3-5? The fact you shoot centerfire and this is lost in you is enough irony to fill this thread.

DeathBeforeDismount said:

Custom barrels ....really?

Factory vudoo means it's either a bartlien or ACE which is also a cut rifle barrel. Calling them factory barrels is disingenuous at best when they are using the best barrels money can buy.

I will put my " factory" bartlien vudoo that shoots 1 ragged hole with sk match up against any "custom" barrel.

Where are all these fucking idiots in the centerfire threads telling people that barrels don't need to break in? So rimfire barrels somehow magically break in with a few rounds of low pressure low heat? A 6.5cm or 6mm takes 150-200 rounds to break in with a premium barrel at a MUCH higher preassure and heat point...but your rimfire gun breaks in 3-5? The fact you shoot centerfire and this is lost in you is enough irony to fill this thread.

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You must the PRS Rimfire National Champion many times over I guess?

J_D said:

You must the PRS Rimfire National Champion many times over I guess?

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Are you going to explain how a rimfire barrel breaks in in 5 rounds but a centerfire takes 150-200? Waiting......